As Ormiston, J.A. demonstrated in R v Kane,[32] the Canadian jurisprudence depends largely on a questionable interpretation of the Canadian Criminal Code and on a degree of dogmatic insistence that all "included offences" should be resolved by verdict. With respect, it is unlikely that Gleeson, CJ. and Gummow, J. intended that legal reasoning of that kind is to be adopted in this country. Significantly, too, Callinan, J., who was the other majority judge in Gilbert, reached the same conclusion as Gleeson, C.J. and Gummow, J., without any reference to Canadian authority, and Gleeson, C.J. and Gummow, J. referred to Callinan, J's judgment with approval. Callinan, J.'s conclusion was in terms confined to the proposition that where the charge is murder and the judge fails to leave an available alternative verdict of manslaughter for the jury's consideration, a verdict of guilty of murder must be set aside unless the proviso can be applied. Admittedly, Callinan, J. referred with approval to observations of Pincus, J.A. in R v Donald,[33] and on one view of the matter Pincus, J.A. was directing his observations to cases apart from murder. But R v Donald, like R v Jackson, was a case of murder in which the trial judge erred by failing to direct the jury that a verdict of manslaughter was available for consideration. Accordingly, with respect, I read Callinan, J.'s reference to the case as confined to that context. Further, in Gillard v The Queen,[34] a High Court of five members took the law as stated in Gilbert to be that where the offence which is charged is murder and the judge fails to leave to the jury a viable case of manslaughter, the accused is wrongly deprived of an opportunity to have the jury consider 'an intermediate position', and a verdict of guilty of murder will therefore be set aside. There is no suggestion in Gillard that the principle in Gilbert is to be understood as applying to a case other than one of murder in which the judge fails to leave an available case of manslaughter. This court has also twice before considered the question of whether the principle in Gilbert and Gillard has application beyond a case in which the offence which is charged is murder and the error of the trial judge is to fail to leave to the jury an available alternative case of manslaughter. In the first case it was doubted that the principle went any wider that the murder/manslaughter dichotomy and in the second it was held it does not. In R v Doan,[35] Charles, J.A. undertook a review of some of the authorities in other states and concluded that it was doubtful that the principle extends beyond the murder/manslaughter dichotomy.[36] Vincent, J.A. agreed.[37] In R v Kane,[38] Ormiston, J.A.[39] reviewed a large number of authorities and concluded that, except in cases where murder has been charged and manslaughter should be left to the jury, there is no basis in principle for insisting on alternative charges being left to the jury in every case. It depends, his Honour stated, on all the circumstances and in particular on whether the accused's counsel asks that the alternative charge be left to the jury or otherwise raises the issue.[40] Callaway, J.A., also considered a number of the authorities and concluded that it is not every alternative verdict that must be left to the jury and that the answer to whether any such verdict should be left depends on all the circumstances, including the dictates of the public interest, fairness to the accused, the course of the trial and the scope of forensic judgment on the part of counsel.[41]