* "[He] used to do quite a lot of bad things ... used to pull down your pants and a couple of times ... and he used to do other things. He touched me in different places." * "He lives with Jeff and Rosie. He hung around with them. ... He also got a whole bag of toys that he gave me and they're down in the shed. ... I don't like them - hearing voices and things, tease me, and stuff. But some of the voices are in a different languages and I can't understand ... how many voices." * When asked to say what were the "bad things", the response was: "He once told a lie to me. He said he was leaving on my birthday, but went out the back and played with all my friends. .... He's lied to me there." * "He's also touched me in my vagina around my chest and my bottom. ... He's done it quite a few times." * When asked to direct her attention to the "first time", K. replied: "Yeh, the first time was in bed ... when he was coming up there to say goodnight, `cause he always used to do that - and he kept all these things inside this caravan at a different house and also he had our keys to, a pair of our keys I think ... ." * The questioner then asked who slept in the bedroom with her. K. said that her sister used to be on the top bunk, "so she didn't even see what happened or anything". When asked whether her sister was there, the response was: "Yes she was up there but she was probably asleep. Mum was saying goodnight to her, because, while Mum was saying goodnight, Jack was saying goodnight to me." When asked about "what happened with Jack", she replied: "He did bad things that I didn't like." When asked what he did, K. responded "He did things like he touched me. He lied to me. Took me to these weird places or some places where I didn't like." [Later in the interview, the complainant was asked whether there was "anything she would like to talk about that happened in these weird places". She said: "Nothing did really happen; but it was just really weird". When pressed she said that they were weird because of "the way they looked and things".] * The questioner then asked K. to tell her "Where he touched you". K. responded "My bottom and my vagina". When the questioner reminded K. that "Your Mum was in the room", K. responded: "Yeh, but she didn't realize it, cause she was tucking [the complainant's sister] into bed and saying goodnight to her. ... And then ... once he did it a couple of times, quite a few times, it just was about 10, he only did it about 10 times I think. ... I started to get sick of it, so one weekend I went over to my Dad's, and then I came back. He was gone. I was gonna tell Mum. But then I forgot about it for quite a while, for a couple of months. And then I just got really scared, and then I started to hear voices and things." * The questioner then sought to bring K.'s recall back to "this time that you were in bed". K. replied: "He put his hand down my pants and he was rubbing around and he ... at the other time when he did it around my chest, he put it down my back - no, not my back, down the front, but ... I didn't actually realise it and ... to last a while and he started doing it a lot more. And then I was about to tell my Mum. After the weekend, I went to my Dad's, but then he was gone. And Mum probably wouldn't be able to talk to him again and tell him not to do that ever again. And so I just forgot about it." * When the questioner then said "Let's talk about the time as you said that he touched you on the bottom and the vagina where were you." K. replied: "A couple of times it was on the couch ... at home." The questioner then said: "Let's talk about the times on the couch then. Who was at home?" K. then described that her mother, brother and sister were at home but were outside and that she was sitting on the couch in front of the television. She described how the applicant was "rubbing" her chest and then started "rubbing ... around my stomach and things". She could not remember the time of day, whether it was the afternoon or night time. K. described that the episode on the couch lasted "about five minutes or something" and that she felt "very upset about it but at that moment, I didn't actually really - well I didn't realize it." The complainant thought that the incident "on the couch" occurred in or about January 1998. The questioner then said: "So you've talked about this time when he's touched you ... rubbed your chest and your stomach", to which K. replied: "He's done it on the couch quite a few times." She was then asked: "Can you remember another incident that happened on the couch", to which she replied "Nuh ... that's the only one and that's ... the only thing that was done on the couch." It was then put to her "You've also said that Jack has touched your bottom and your vagina", to which she replied "Yeh ... a couple of times it was on the couch and most of the times it was in bed `cause my Mum was either saying goodnight to [the brother] or goodnight to [the sister]. So if [the sister] did see it happen once, then she probably would have told Mum, but I don't think she did see it happen."