[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Yes, Your Honour. All right, well, can - can I ask you, then, as you sit here now, do you remember these or any episodes where he placed his penis in your anus?---I'm not sure.
HER HONOUR: Do you know what anus means, because you - do you know what an anus is?---Yes.
Yes. Same as anal, if you like, you know that?---Yes.
All right.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: So as you sit here now, you're not sure if you can remember any of those times or not? Is that what you're saying?---Yes, I can.
You can remember. All right. Well, can you remember a specific occasion, a particular time that that happened?---It was in my parents' room.
So you can remember a time in your parents' room can [you]?---Yes.
All right and with that time in your parents' room that you can remember, are you able to say whether that was the first time that it happened or are you not sure?---I'm not sure.
Can you remember whether that happened at night time or in the day time or are you not sure?---Ah, unsure.
Can you - you can't remember, I suppose, what year it was or what year you were in at school?---No.
But what you'd say is that it wasn't one of the first things - one of the first sexual things that he did with you, was it?---No.
So, it's not likely to have been in Year 7, as you'd be able to say that, wouldn't you?---I'm not sure.
All right. Well, can you remember on the day that you're talking about, did it - it was in his bedroom. Did it happen on the bed?---I think so. Yes.
When you say, you think so, you don't have a very clear picture in your mind. Is that what you're saying?---Slightly, yes.
HER HONOUR: Sorry?---Yes.
You don't have a clear picture in your mind. Is that what you said?---Yes.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: All right. Well, when it happened was he naked?---Yes.
Were you naked?---Yes.
So neither of you had any clothes on at all?---No.
Can you remember - you think it was on the bed. Can you remember how you got to be on the bed?---What do you mean?
Well, you'd been standing up at some stage when you went into the room. Is that right?---Yep.
But you ended up on the bed?---Yes.
Can you remember how you ended up on the bed? I mean, did he put you there or did you lie down there or what happened there or can you not remember?---I laid down.
You laid down, did you?---Yes.
All right. So, you took your clothes off first?---Yep.
And then you laid down on the bed?---Yes.
On your back?---Yes.
And what, he got undressed and he got on the bed as well, did he?---Yes.
All right and can you remember what happened then?---I don't understand.
Well, after he got on the bed. Did he lie on top of you or did he lie next to you? What - can you remember or not really?---On top.
He lay on top of you, did he?---Yep.
All right and when he lay on top of you did he - did he put his penis in your vagina?---No.
No? All right. So, you're lying on the bed and he's lying on top of you?---Yes.
And he didn't put his penis in your vagina. Did he put his penis in your mouth?---No.
Did he put his penis straight into your anus, did he? Into your anal?---Yes.
And when he did that you were lying on your back?---Yep.
And did he lie between your legs?---I don't understand.
Well, you're lying on your back?---Yes.
And you've got - you've got your head up near the pillow end, I suppose. Is that right?---Yes.
And you've got your feet down near the other end of the bed. Is that right?---Yes.
And is this on top of the blankets or is it on the sheets or- - -?---On top of the blanket.
On top of the blankets, all right and so that's how you're lying on the bed with your legs - before he got on top of you, I suppose you just had your legs stretched out? You're just lying along the bed. Is that right? You're just lying on your back on the bed?---Yes.
With your legs together?---I can't remember.
All right but what you do remember is that he lay on top of you?---Yeah.
Is that right and when he lay on top of you did he have to move your legs apart when he lay on top of you or did he move your legs apart is what I'm really asking?---Yes.
He did. All right, so that once he'd done that he was lying in between your legs, was he?---Yes.
And you had your feet still on the bed?---Yes.
Did you have your knees bent?---Yes.
And that's how you were lying when he put his penis in your anus. Is that right?---I don't understand.
Well, is that the position that you were lying in when he put his penis in your anus?---Yes and he had to sit up.
Sorry?---He had to sit up.
He had to sit up to do that, did he?---Yes.
He'd been lying between your legs?---Yep.
And what, he sat up?---On his knees.
He sat on his knees?---Yes.
But you were still lying in that position on the bed?---Yes.
And then he put his penis in your anus. Is that what happened?---Yes.
All right and he didn't use any - didn't put any cream on his penis or anything like that?
HER HONOUR: Did you see him do any of that?
[At this point in proceedings, EO required a break. In due course her cross-examination continued:]
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: [EO], I was just asking you about this time that you remember when he put his penis in your anus and you told us how you'd been lying on the bed and he got onto the bed and he got on his knees on the bed. Is that what he did?---Yes.
All right and when he was on his knees that's the position he was in when he put his penis in your - in your anus or in your anal. Is that right?---Yes. He had to lift my legs up.
He had to lift [your] legs right up. All right and so that's what he did. He lifted your legs up and then he put his penis into your anus?---Yes.
And is this the first time you can - is this the only time you can remember him doing that?---I'm not sure.
All right but this is a time in your bedroom?---Sorry?
In his bedroom, I beg your pardon?---Yep.
It's in his bedroom.
HER HONOUR: Well, she thought.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Yes. I'm sorry. As far as you can remember it's in his bedroom and it's on his bed, as far as - - -?---I think so. Yes.
All right. It's just that - see - and I should say the way you remember it, you didn't suck his penis or he didn't put his penis in your mouth on this occasion?---I'm not sure.
All right. I thought you said before that you couldn't remember him doing that and he didn't put his penis in your vagina on this occasion, as far as you can remember?
HER HONOUR: Do you know if he did that?---I'm not sure.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Yes. All right. It's just that when you spoke to the police what you said to them ... You said, look, there were twice, I think that he put his - that there was anal intercourse and you told the police that two different occasions, all right?---Yep.
But one of them was in the studio?---Yep.
And that's not the one that we're talking about here, is it?---No.
No and the other one was in the - in his bedroom, as I understand it?---Yep.
What you said to the police is this, 'It started off with the normal intercourse where he just put his penis in my vagina'. That's how it started?---Yep.
But that's not how you remember it happening now?---I don't know.
Well, as you sit here now you can't remember this starting with him just putting his penis in your vagina, can you?---Sorry?
As you sit here now and you remember this time that he put his penis in your anus, you don't remember it starting with him putting his penis in your vagina, do you?
HER HONOUR: You're being asked about now. Now, when you're being asked these questions do you remember that now or not?---I'm not sure.
What you said to the police is this, 'And then it changed and the pain grew a lot more'. You said, 'I wasn't sure, like when his penis was in my vagina it hurt but then when it went in my anal it hurt a lot'. That's what you said to the police?---Yep.
And you said, 'I knew it had gone into my anal because I felt him move further down than he needed to than what he normally did'. That's what you said to the police. Is that how you remember it now?---I don't understand.
HER HONOUR: Do you remember that now?---Yes.
Do you remember that happening now is the - - -?---Yes, slightly, vaguely.
Well, as I understood what you were saying to the police is that he was just having sexual intercourse with you in like the normal position.
HER HONOUR: Well, I don't know that I - - -
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Yes, sorry, Your Honour. When you talked about him having sexual intercourse with you did you have the memory that if he put his penis in your vagina it was when you were lying on your back and he was lying on top of you.
HER HONOUR: I think that's difficult, I'm sorry.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: All right.
HER HONOUR: It's the memory and it's - you're talking about on this occasion. Because she doesn't remember now, as I understand it, whether there was any penis in the vagina but she says there was anal.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Yes. All right. You can't remember or can you remember if the incident that you've just told us about is the same one you were talking to the police about? Can you remember if it's the same one or not?
HER HONOUR: You mean the anal?
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: The anal.
HER HONOUR: The anal, you're talking about there about being on the bed I think and so on. Is that the same one you told the police about, do you know?---I'm not sure.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: All right and then as you sit here now that's the only one that you can remember? That's the only episode of - or the only time that he put his penis in your anus or in your anal that you can remember. Is that right?---Sorry?
Yes. I'll try again. As you - here today?---Yes.
You can only remember one time that he ever put his penis in your anus or anal. Is that right?---Yes, at the moment.
All right. Look, you've probably just answered this but when you did your taped interview or recorded interview with the police?---Yes.
Yes. You told them about a time in the studio that he put his penis in your anus?---Yes.
But you can't remember that at all at the moment?---Yes.
HER HONOUR: Well - - -
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: When you say yes, are you agreeing with me?---I'm having trouble remembering it.