[2025] VSCA 300
General information, not legal advice.
Court of Appeal (Vic)
2025-12-02
Mr AJ, Priest JA, Boyce JA, Kaye JA
Original judgment source is linked above.
The trial judge erred in admitting the hearsay evidence of [TH].
[Prosecutor]: [HP], is that, again, a recording that you took?
[HP]: Yeah.
[Prosecutor]: And the female voice?
[HP]: Me.
[Prosecutor]: And who are you speaking to there?
[HP]: A lot of people.
[Prosecutor]: Okay. What about the male voice?
[HP]: [TH].
[HP]: I said, 'Since when were you beefing the 9iners.'
[Prosecutor]: Yes?
[HP]: And what I meant by that was because they said that they were friends with, um, one of the guys that, ah ...
[Prosecutor]: They said they were friends with? I missed the next bit, sorry?
[HP]: That they said that they were friends with one of the people that I mentioned.
[Prosecutor]: Okay?
[HP]: So that's why I was like, 'Since when were you beefing the 9iners.'
[Prosecutor]: Which friend did they say they were friends with?
[HP]: [the applicant's nickname].[8]
[Defence counsel]: When you were speaking with him, did he appear to you as though he was drunk or drug affected?
[GD]: I wouldn't say 'yes', because he had woken up not long ago, so I couldn't really tell. He had looked like he had just woken up, but I couldn't say 'on drugs' or any of that.
Nocton Street - TH's interaction with the Mazda
Ah, so while I was taking the statement, he, ah, got out of the car on two occasions. Ah, he went to the - ah, the cordon - the police cordon where some friends and family were just to - ah, to explain to them what had happened. He was - he was talking to family, so I got him back in the police car or I encouraged him back in the police car to continue the statement.
The impugned representations made to police on 14 March 2022
(a) the offenders arrived in a vehicle; > > (b) he said 'come on, let's go'; > > (c) '[the applicant' nickname]' was one of the offenders and he was seated in the rear left of the vehicle; > > (d) he thought there was going to be a fight; > > (e) he saw the amount of offenders who arrived; > > (f) he was 100% on '[the applicant's nickname]', he was in the rear left of the vehicle they arrived in; > > (g) he ran off because he thought there would only be two in the vehicle, he thought it would be fists; > > (h) he observed the sheer number of people coming out of the vehicle and he ran off; > > (i) the group were a gang from Tarneit called 'The Nine' or '9ers'; > > (j) the group were after him and that it was in relation to something on the block.
that it was 100 per cent [the applicant's nickname] and he was ... situated in the ... rear left of the vehicle that he'd arrived in.
(a) he had been at a party, he had woken up, it was fucked because the boys were gone, it was just him, his cousin KH and the deceased left; > > (b) the males were from Tarneit and that is your only hint; > > (c) one of them goes by [the applicant's nickname]; > > (d) there were males, including [the applicant's nickname] in a vehicle; > > (e) [the applicant's nickname] was in the back left of the vehicle; > > (f) he thought it would only be hands; > > (g) when he realised that there was much more than two, he ran; > > (h) [he was] 100% on [the applicant's nickname]; > > (i) the other males were little kids and he didn't know them; > > (j) he identified on Instagram a picture of [the applicant's nickname] as one of the people present; > > (k) the males were screaming his name; > > (l) it was about something on the block; and > > (m) they were from a gang called The Nine and are all from Tarneit.
[Defence counsel]: And did any of those accounts pique your interest as potentially being involved in the offending?
[AS Herbert]: Ah, there was - apologies.
[Defence counsel]: As being involved in [the deceased's] death?
[AS Herbert]: Um, there was a - an account called 'Htown' - 'Htown are bangers' or similar.
[Defence counsel]: 'Htown are netbangers'?
[AS Herbert]: Netbangers, yes.
[Defence counsel]: Yes?
[AS Herbert]: Sorry, yeah. That - that appeared to, um, be posting a comment or comments in relation to the death of - of the deceased.
[Defence counsel]: Certainly wasn't the only one?
[AS Herbert]: No.
Um, we exchanged some words, but I don't really remember what they were, like, in - like - cause I - I - I got laced with something that night, so, like, my memory that night and that - that whole week was - yeah, just wasn't good.
No. It was dark, you know. It was around - this was, like, around 3, you know, it was very dark. All I seen was two people, that was it.
No. It was - like, it was - it was extremely dark and there was no, like, there was no street lights, nothing. There was nothing in that street. It was just pitch black.
Yeah. We were running - we were all together for, like, a couple of minutes, and as we were running, everyone was running straight, and everyone just split up out of nowhere. And then that's when I looked to my left, and I seen my cousin was gone. I looked to my right, I seen [the deceased] was gone.
and then I was just walking up and down. Like, my head's in my hands because, like, I knew what would - I knew what happened, obviously. I mean, my friend was, you know, dead. And then that's when, um, a lot of my cousins - they pulled up to the scene and we just ran down the street and, you know, we were hugging each other and stuff, and everyone was just talking and, like, letting them know what happened and that.
Yeah, but I already said I was under the influence. Like, I was under the influence of drugs that day as well.
[TH]: Why are you talking about the 14th? Like, bro, what are you on about?
[Prosecutor]: The day after these things happened?
[TH] Yeah, I understand that but, like, I've already told you, like, what happened. I don't remember that. I don't remember none of that.
[Prosecutor]: Well, [TH], can I suggest you're saying you don't remember because you don't want to give the evidence?
[TH]: Nah, I don't have evidence to give. What do you mean?
[Prosecutor]: Okay. Well, I'm going to suggest a number of things that you told the police, and you can tell me whether you can remember them or not. Okay?
[TH]: Can I object?
[Prosecutor]: Sorry?
[TH]: Objection. I object.
Nah, I'm off, then. Thank you, have a good day. Don't touch me.
The trial transcript records, at this point, that the 'witness withdrew'.
I'm not too sure. Like, I can see myself saying that, but I - I couldn't tell you if I wanted to. I don't remember that. I don't remember getting pulled up on. I don't remember. All I remember is little bits and pieces from that night. I was laced with fentanyl, as I have told you, and it's messed with my memory. Now, I don't know what more you want me to tell you.
That's not - I don't remember the - the - me seeing them. Youse are just acting - adding extra words. Like, what the hell?
I already told you before, I never seen no one in the back seat, so that's what I'm saying. Like, I never seen - all I seen was two - two people in the front seat, and that's all I ever seen. I don't know what colour they were, it was hella dark. You know, like I said, it was about two, 3.30, something like that. And I don't even remember bits - I've just been told certain things from people who were there.
Yes, I did. Are you crazy? I could barely fuckin' walk. I had to get woken up from the - from females, and I couldn't walk properly, so - like, there's legit videos of me, like, unable to communicate with people, sitting there vomiting, and then at - five minutes after that, I'm passed out for like five hours, so I don't know what you guys are trying to say, but.
I don't know who that is. Never met him, never seen him, never heard of him.
Like I said, I told you I don't remember the 14th, so - I was still under the influence of fentanyl.
That's what I'm saying bro, I don't remember certain - most parts from that night. I'm just - I've been told certain things.
[TH]: That's - that's - yeah, that's what I - I'm - I'm telling you what I've been told, bro.
[Defence counsel]: Okay. So as I understand ...
[TH]: I - I
[Defence counsel]: ... you don't remember the car pulling up?
[TH]: I don't remember the -
[Defence counsel]: You've been told by other people?
[TH]: Yeah. I don't remember the car pulling up. I don't remember being chased. I don't - like, I don't - I - I don't remember the night. Like, I've just got little bits that I remember, like, and they're - they're not big things.
[Defence counsel]: Okay. Well, there was some evidence earlier that when this car pulled up it was dark, and there was no street lighting?
[TH]: Yeah.
[Defence counsel]: That's not something you remember, that's something you've been told by other people?
[TH]: Yeah, yep.
[Defence counsel]: You said that you didn't see - well, that you didn't see the face of anyone in the car, and that's because you don't remember seeing one, is that right?
[TH]: No, I don't remember seeing a face. I - all I got told is that there was two people in the front. That's all I know.
[Defence counsel]: Okay. Who was it that told you there were two people in the front?
[TH]: Um, one of the people that were with me.
This is just what I've been told. Apparently I jumped into the back of my cousin's car, and then, ah, we were chilling there for a bit, and then we left. And then I was dropped off.
I know that - I know that - I know that - no, no. I know, the day after, we - everyone - like, we all came together, and everyone went to [the deceased's] tree and shit, and then, like, we all put flowers there, and then we went back somewhere. And I know I used - I - I used, um, Snapchat during that.
I'm not too sure. I wasn't really talking with anyone like that. Like - because there was no one that was, like, very close. Like, it was people that knew him - hundred per cent - but, like, I wasn't really talking much with them. Like, I was just there to put my flowers there, and then I seen he - [the deceased's] mum. Then, like, I was talking with his mum, and, like, we were just talking, and, you know, she was very sad, so I - like, I was just hugging her. And then that's when we end up leaving. And then my cousins ended up coming to grab me, and then - yeah, they took me back to my mum's house.
Bro, listen. I don't know, bro. This is my cousin. We talk every day, you know? That's my blood. We talk all the time. So I - I don't know, like, where you're trying to get to with this, but, you know, I talk to him probably every day, yes.
I don't - I don't remember, but I dunno. Maybe. I'm not too sure.
I don't know, bro. Like, what's - I don't remember this, bro. How long ago was this shit? Like, how do you expect me to remember, bro? This is ages ago.
Yeah. Well, I don't remember that, bro. I barely remember shit, bro.
Bro, what is - what is - what is anyone gonna tell me about us talking - you know, talking about people commenting on my mate - my mate's who passed away post? Like, that's just so random, bro.
[TH]: Who?
[Defence counsel]: One of your friends?
[TH]: Ah, well, what you do mean, 'my friends'?
[Defence counsel]: Well, someone who was a mate of yours, someone who was a mate of [the deceased's] - could they have said, 'I think this person's involved'?
[TH]: Um, I dunno. Maybe, but that doesn't mean that person's right. Like, everyone can have a guess, but that ...
[TH]: Maybe, bro. And I - I - I'm being honest. I really do not know, because how - of how far back that was. So much has happened since then. You understand?
[Defence counsel]:Yep?
[TH]: And, like, especially with the fentanyl. Like, bro, that really ruined my memory from that night, plus how far ago this shit happened. It's not helping anything, but I - I - I couldn't tell you really. I could not tell you if someone said that or not. I don't - I'm not too sure.
TH gave a first person account of what he knew and who he identified when speaking with Ferguson and Ryan. Ryan records a first person narrative in his notes. Ryan gave evidence that it was clear to him what were direct quotes from TH and those that were not. TH was present during the events in question. On 14 March, there is no evidence that TH ever told Ferguson or Ryan that his information was second-hand. He spoke in the first person about what he saw, heard and perceived.[10]
It cannot be said that [TH] did not want to provide any assistance, but rather a reluctance because he did not want to be perceived as a 'snitch' or may have been concerned about repercussions.[11]
The interaction between TH and the car that stops is very brief. However, TH and the other two boys, the deceased and [KH], are engaging with the people in the car, and given their proximity to the car, may have been able to see the people in it. TH is there for enough time for at least one of the people in the car from the passenger side of the vehicle to alight and start running.[16]
[i]t is ... consistent with TH in his own way, wanting to provide some assistance to the police.[18]
the evidence does not go far enough to rule out the representations on the basis that the representations are not first-hand hearsay.[19]
At most, in cross-examination, TH indicated that he had been told things, but he did not go as far as to say that everything he told the police on 14 March was what he had heard from someone else. The thrust of his evidence on that point was that he could not recall the police attending or what he told them. Even if TH had talked about the incident from the time he was at the crime scene talking to police to when he spoke to Ryan and Ferguson, it does not mean that what he told the police on 14 March (approximately 10 hours later), was not based on something he saw, heard or perceived.
Indeed, TH's comments to Taylor on 13 March that the car was full and that the occupants were 'black' were not expressed in a manner which suggest that the information contained in them was anything other than his own observations and perceptions. At that point in time they could not have been anything else. His alleged representations on 14 March, including his identification of [the applicant] in the car, are also expressed as something he saw or perceived.
Those statements, as well as his alleged statement on 14 March that other than [the applicant], the people in the car were just 'kids', are also significant in that they suggest he was close enough to see that the occupants of the car in sufficient ... detail to identify that they were young.
In summary, in light of all the evidence, I consider that it is open to find that the representations are first-hand hearsay, based on the fact [that] they might reasonably be supposed to have been based on something TH saw, heard or perceived.[21]
As this is a trial by judge alone, I will of course have regard to the potential unreliability of hearsay evidence when assessing the evidence.[23]
As it is the prosecution seeking to lead evidence in reliance on s 66, it bears the onus of establishing these matters.[38]
[t]he prosecution does not need to satisfy the Court that the representations were so based, it is sufficient that they might 'reasonably have supposed to have been'.[40]
I consider the evidence does not go far enough to rule out the representations on the basis that the representations are not first-hand hearsay.[42]
It is in this passage, so the applicant argues, that the judge inverted the applicable onus.
[2] The accused at trial were the applicant, QM, 'DM' (aged 15) and 'SY' (aged 17). The others making up the eight were 'MM' (aged 16), 'JA' (aged 16), 'PM' (aged 13, who was found not guilty by reason of doli incapax) and 'AM' (aged 14).
[3] The prosecution contended that the applicant was involved in the offending by operation of s 323(1)(c), or alternatively s 323(1)(d), of the Crimes Act 1958.
[4] The applicant, QM and DM disputed presence. SY admitted his involvement but pleaded guilty to manslaughter.
[5] See ch 9 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2009 (since repealed).
[6] See DPP v SA [2024] VSC 28 ('reasons for verdict').
[7] For the purposes of s 66, it was conceded for instance that TH was available and it was not put in issue that the asserted facts were fresh in TH's memory.
[8] The applicant was referred to throughout the trial by reference to a particular nickname. This nickname features regularly in these reasons. There was no issue at trial that reference to this nickname was a reference to the applicant.
[9] DPP v SA [No 6] [2024] VSC 27, [23]-[24] ('Ruling no 6'). See the terms of s 62(2) of the Evidence Act set out at [15] above.
[27] Reliance was placed on statements made by TH to SC Taylor such as: 'I didn't know what happened I just ran off'; 'I could barely see, you're not going to be looking at the car, you're going to try and run ... all that I saw was a black person that's the only description, nothing else'; 'I couldn't see, I only saw one that was the head and I couldn't even see him barely'; and, 'I dunno who done it otherwise I would be telling you right now; car pulled up, black people jumped out, I ran'.
[28] At that paragraph, the trial judge observed: 'I consider that TH recognised one of the people in the car as being [the applicant's nickname]. This is strong evidence supporting an inference that male 8, who closely resembles [the applicant], was in fact [the applicant] given he was in the area and involved in the confrontation with TH'.
[29] At that paragraph, the trial judge concluded as follows: 'However, TH gave a first person account of what he knew and who he identified, and [LSC Ryan] records a first person narrative in his notes. [LSC Ryan's] evidence is that it was clear to him what were direct quotes from TH and those that were not.'
[30] Citing Moore (a pseudonym) v The King [2024] HCA 30; (2024) 98 ALJR 1119, 1128 [32] (Gageler CJ, Edelman, Steward, Gleeson and Beech-Jones JJ); [2024] HCA 30 ('Moore').
[32] It appears that TH gave evidence by video-link from a remote location.
[35] Ruling no 6, [50]; Evidence Act, s 62(2). See [13] above.
[36] Cf R v Vincent [2002] NSWCCA 369; (2002) 133 A Crim R 206, 210-11 [19]-[20] (Hodgson JA); [2002] NSWCCA 369.
[38] Ruling no 6, [15] (emphasis added), citing Boyer (a pseudonym) v The Queen [2015] VSCA 242; (2015) 47 VR 640, 654-5 [69]-[70] (Priest JA, Kyrou and Kaye JJA agreeing at [83]-[84]); [2015] VSCA 242.
[44] IMM v The Queen [2016] HCA 14; (2016) 257 CLR 300, 313 [44], 314 [47], 315 [52] (French CJ, Kiefel, Bell and Keane JJ); [2016] HCA 14.
[45] In that, as evidence of first-hand hearsay, the impugned evidence had the potential to be characterised as evidence that was based upon something that TH saw, heard or otherwise perceived, other than a previous representation made by another person made about the fact: Evidence Act, s 62(2). See [165] above.
[46] The judge gave herself a warning in respect of identification evidence and warned herself about witnesses who could be said to be 'reluctant and/or evasive': see reasons for verdict, [34], [44].
[49] Cf Moore [2024] HCA 30; (2024) 98 ALJR 1119, 1129 [36] (Gageler CJ, Edelman, Steward, Gleeson and Beech‑Jones JJ); [2024] HCA 30.
[52] Baini v The Queen [2012] HCA 59; (2012) 246 CLR 469, 479-82 [26]-[35] (French CJ, Hayne, Crennan, Kiefel and Bell JJ); [2012] HCA 59.
[53] See, in particular, the reasons for verdict, [327], [540], [559], [560], [566], [569].
[54] Reasons for verdict, [536]-[569], in particular, from [556].
SA (a pseudonym)
The King [2025] VSCA 300
DPP v SA [2024] VSC 428
(2024) 98 ALJR 1119
(2016) 257 CLR 300
(2015) 47 VR 640
(2012) 246 CLR 469