[2025] FWC 2761
General information, not legal advice.
Fair Work Commission
2025-09-16
Original judgment source is linked above.
s.394 - Unfair dismissal
Is Elmobayed a person protected from unfair dismissal?
(1) Mr Elmobayed worked casual shifts between 27 June and 30 June 2024 (inclusive)
(2) In July 2024, Mr Elmobayed worked 12 casual shifts as follows:
(a) 4 July to 7 July 2024 (inclusive)
(b) 11 July to 14 July 2024 (inclusive)
(c) 19 July 2024
(d) 21 July 2024
(e) 27 July to 28 July 2024 (inclusive)
(3) In August 2024, Mr Elmobayed worked 4 casual shifts as follows:
(a) 10 August to 11 August 2024 (inclusive)
(b) 18 August 2024
(c) 25 August 2024
(4) In September 2024, Mr Elmobayed worked no shifts.
(5) In October 2024, Mr Elmobayed worked 3 casual shifts as follows:
(a) 3 October 2024
(b) 6 October 2024
(c) 20 October 2024
(6) In November 2024, Mr Elmobayed worked 5 casual shifts as follows:
(a) 8 November 2024
(b) 22 November to 23 November 2024 (inclusive)
(c) 28 November to 29 November 2024 (inclusive)
(7) In December 2024, Mr Elmobayed worked 4 casual shifts as follows:
(a) 20 December 2024
(b) 27 December to 29 December 2024 (inclusive)
(8) In January 2025, Mr Elmobayed worked no shifts.
(9) In February 2025, Mr Elmobayed worked no shifts.
(10) In March 2025 in the period prior to the dismissal, Mr Elmobayed worked no shifts.
(1) An employee's period of employment with an employer at a particular time is the period of continuous service the employee has completed with the employer at that time as an employee.
(a) a period of service as a casual employee does not count towards the employee's period of employment unless:
(i) the employment as a casual employee was as a regular casual employee; and
(ii) during the period of service as a casual employee, the employee had a reasonable expectation of continuing employment by the employer on a regular and systematic basis; ...
regular casual employee: a national system employee of a national system employer is a regular casual employee at a particular time, if at that time:
(a) the employee is a casual employee; and
(b) the employee has been employed by the employer on a regular and systematic basis.
(1) A period of service by a national system employee with his or her national system employer is a period during which the employee is employed by the employer, but does not include any period (an excluded period) that does not count as service because of subsection (2).
(a) any period of unauthorised absence;
(b) any period of unpaid leave or unpaid authorised absence, other than:
(i) a period of absence under Division 8 of Part 2-2 (which deals with community service leave); or
(ii) a period of stand down under Part 3-5, under an enterprise agreement that applies to the employee, or under the employee's contract of employment; or
(iii) a period of leave or absence of a kind prescribed by the regulations;
(c) any other period of a kind prescribed by the regulations.
(3) An excluded period does not break a national system employee's continuous service with his or her national system employer, but does not count towards the length of the employee's continuous service.
It will be recalled that s.384(2)(a) states that a period of service as a casual employee does not count towards the employee's period of employment unless:
(i) the employment as a casual was on a regular and systematic basis; and
(ii) during the period of service as a casual employee, the employee had a reasonable expectation of continuing employment by the employer on a regular and systematic basis; and
We make some observations about the construction of s.384(2)(a)(ii). First, 'during' can mean either 'throughout the course of' or 'at a point in the course of'. In our view, the first of these meanings is intended. The sub-provision is an exception to an exception; a period of casual service does not count, unless two requirements are met. Both of these requirements concern states of affairs that can develop over time. This context points to the word 'during' connoting a continuous period, rather than a point in time. Further, the alternative construction would mean that a casual employee need only have a reasonable expectation of continuing employment for any fleeting period in the course of the casual employment. There is no apparent rationale that would support this being the intended meaning. Finally, we note that the explanatory memorandum to the Fair Work Bill states simply that 'service as a casual employee does not count towards the period of employment unless it was on a regular and systematic basis and the employee had a reasonable expectation of continuing engagement on a regular and systematic basis.' This wording is consistent with the interpretation we favour, and inconsistent with a 'point in time' meaning. The effect of this is that a particular period of service as a casual employee only 'counts' in respect of periods when the casual employment was regular and systematic and the employee had a reasonable expectation of continuing employment.
The ordinary meaning of the words of s 384(2)(a)(ii) requires that the employee has subjectively formed an expectation of continuing employment by the employer on a regular and systematic basis. If that expectation has been formed, it is necessary to assess whether it is a reasonable one. It is true that the word 'reasonable' is generally used in the law to import an objective standard: Adams v Bracknell Forest Borough Council [2004] UKHL 29; [2005] 1 AC 76 at [33] (Lord Hoffmann). But the FWA does not limit the matters that may be taken into account in determining whether the expectation is reasonable. Certainly, the shorter the period of employment, generally the harder it will be for the employee to establish that he or she reasonably relied on a pattern of work, if that is the basis of his or her reasonable expectation. But the reasonableness of the expectation depends on all the circumstances...
It is clear from the language of s 384(2) that an employee may have a series of contiguous periods of service with an employer that may count towards a single period of employment with that employer. Any given period of service in such a contiguous series of periods of service will count towards the employee's period of employment only if the requirements in s 384(2)(a)(i) and (ii) are met.
(1) At the Craigieburn store: The respondent contends that Mr Elmobayed displayed a rude and aggressive attitude, engaged in intimidatory conduct involving colleagues and made inappropriate and sexual remarks to team members.
(2) At the Watergardens store: The respondent contends that Mr Elmobayed almost got into a fist fight with a colleague and used foul language. It also contends that Mr Elmobayed's attitude and behaviour made other team members feel uncomfortable.
(3) At the Essendon store: The respondent contends that complaints were received from team members regarding Mr Elmobayed's aggressive demeanour, the demeaning manner in which he spoke to his colleagues and his conduct in discussing personal topics that made other team members feel uncomfortable.
(4) At the Plenty Valley store: The respondent contends that customer complaints were received regarding Mr Elmobayed's pushy behaviour and making them feel uncomfortable.
(5) Mr Rosa also gave evidence that he received complaints by two team members regarding Mr Elmobayed's conduct at the 2024 Christmas party.
The question of whether the alleged conduct took place and what it involved is to be determined by the Commission on the basis of the evidence in the proceedings before it. The test is not whether the employer believed, on reasonable grounds after sufficient enquiry, that the employee was guilty of the conduct which resulted in termination.
Is the Commission satisfied that the dismissal was harsh, unjust or unreasonable?
Step 1: Estimate the remuneration the applicant would have received, or have been likely to have received, if the employer had not terminated the employment (remuneration lost).
Step 3: Discount the remaining amount for contingencies.
Step 4: Calculate the impact of taxation to ensure that the employee receives the actual amount he or she would have received if they had continued in their employment.
In determining the remuneration that the employee would have received, or would have been likely to receive, the Commission is required to give its attention to an actual state of facts... In each case, it is necessary for the Commission to address itself to the question whether, if the actual termination had not occurred, the employment would have been likely to continue, or would have been terminated at some time by another means. It is necessary for the Commission to make a finding of fact as to the likelihood of a further termination, in order to be able to assess the amount of remuneration the employee would have received, or would have been likely to receive, if there had not been the actual termination.
[1] Exhibit 5 (Applicant's outline of arguments: merits) at [1a]-[1c]; Respondent's outline of arguments: merits at [1a]-[1c]
[2] Applicant's outline of arguments: merits at [3a]-[3b]; Respondent's outline of arguments: merits at [3a]-[3b]
[3] Respondent's outline of arguments: merits at [3d]
[5] Exhibit 1 (respondent's payroll report)
[9] Yaraka Holdings Pty Ltd v Giljevic [2006] ACTCA 6; 149 IR 339
[12] Chandler v Bed Bath N' Table [2020] FWCFB 306 at [11]
[13] Bronze Hospitality Pty Ltd v Janell Hansson [2019] FWCFB 1099 at [24]
[16] Bronze Hospitality Pty Ltd v Janell Hansson (No 2) [2019] FCA 1680
[19] See the discussion in Mr John Attard v Port Phillip City Council [2022] FWC 2057 at [53]- [62]
[21] Respondent's document list; Exhibit 5 (Applicant's outline of argument - merits) at [3c]
[22] Applicant's outline of argument - merits at [6d]
[23] Exhibit 3 (Applicant's statement of evidence); Exhibit 4 (bundle of documents attached to Applicant's document list)
[24] Selvachandran v Peteron Plastics Pty Ltd [1995] IRCA 333; (1995) 62 IR 371; Walton v Mermaid Dry Cleaners Pty Ltd [1996] IRCA 267; (1996) 142 ALR 681
[25] King v Freshmore (Vic) Pty Ltd Print S4213 (AIRCFB, Ross VP, Williams SDP, Hingley C, 17 March 2000) at [23]-[24]
[26] Respondent's outline of arguments: merits at [3e]
[27] Bartlett v Ingleburn Bus Services Pty Ltd [2020] FWCFB 6429 at [19]; Reseigh v Stegbar Pty Ltd [2020] FWCFB 533 at [55]
[28] Respondent's outline of arguments: merits at [3f]
[29] Gibson v Bosmac Pty Ltd [1995] IRCA 222; (1995) 60 IR 1 at 7; Central Queensland Services Pty Ltd v Tara Odgers [2020] FWCFB 304 at [42]; Chubb Security Australia Pty Ltd v Thomas Print S2679 at [41]; Bartlett v Ingleburn Bus Services Pty Ltd t/as Interline Bus Services [2020] FWCFB 6429 at [19] and [21]; Crozier v Palazzo Corporation Pty Ltd (t/as Noble Park Storage and Transport) (2000) 98 IR 137 at [75]
[30] Applicant's outline of arguments: merits at [6b]
[31] Respondent's outline of arguments: merits at [5a]
[34] ALH Group Pty Ltd t/a The Royal Exchange Hotel v Mulhall (2002) 117 IR 357 at [51]. See also Smith v Moore Paragon Australia Ltd PR915674 (AIRCFB, Ross VP, Lacy SDP, Simmonds C, 21 March 2002) at [92]; Edwards v Justice Giudice [1999] FCA 1836 at [6]- [7]
[35] Respondent's outline of arguments: merits at [5a], [5d], [6a], [6b]
[37] Applicant's outline of argument: merits at [7b]
[39] Print R0235; [1998] AIRC 989; (1998) 88 IR 21. This approach was articulated in the context of the Fair Work Act 2009 (Cth) in Bowden v Ottrey Homes Cobram and District Retirement Villages Inc T/A Ottrey Lodge [2013] FWCFB 431; 229 IR 6 and Double N Equipment Hire Pty Ltd t/a A1 Distributions v Humphries [2016] FWCFB 7206 at [16] (Double N Equipment Hire)
[40] See Ellawala v Australian Postal Corporation Print S5109 (AIRCFB, Ross VP, Williams SDP, Gay C, 17 April 2000) (Ellawala) at [34]
[41] He v Lewin [2004] FCAFC 161; 137 FCR 266 at [58]
[42] He v Lewin [2004] FCAFC 161; 137 FCR 266
[44] Applicant's outline of argument: merits at [7c]
Printed by authority of the Commonwealth Government Printer
Ibrahim Elmobayed
The Trustee For Tarocash Trading Trust [2025] FWC 2761
(1995) 62 IR 371
(1996) 142 ALR 681
(1995) 60 IR 1
(2000) 98 IR 137
(2002) 117 IR 357
(1998) 88 IR 21