Ms Ellis
367 Ms Ellis was appointed a director of the Board for the Katherine Region in 2009 and was NAAJA's Deputy Chairperson in the period following the January Meeting.
368 In her affidavit, Ms Ellis criticized Ms Atkins' manner of minute taking and described meetings organised by Ms Atkins as "chaotic". She said that over time she had become concerned about the "level of control" Ms Atkins had over the Board's business. The only example given is an assertion that Ms Atkins "controlled the correspondence between NAAJA and regulatory bodies, such as ASIC, with regards to the Board". No specifics of the concern were given.
369 Ms Ellis said that in the June Meeting Ms Atkins' proposal for some staff members to receive a pay rise was rejected by the Board because it had not included any detail about the current salaries of the staff concerned.
370 Ms Ellis said that when she read the Complaint she formed the view that Ms Atkins should have dealt with the issues referred to in it in her role as the CEO. She said that Ms Atkins had not followed NAAJA's grievance policy and that the manner in which the Complaint was written was unprofessional. The grievance policy was not annexed to the affidavit and is not otherwise in evidence.
371 Ms Ellis described the Complaint as relating to "operational matters". She said that as part of its discussion at the First November Meeting "the Board decided that it was only fair that [Ms Evans] be made aware of the Complaint and have an opportunity to respond for natural justice".
372 Ms Ellis said that she joined in the Suspension Resolution because the Board was "weighing up" whether there was fraud. She said that Ms Rosas' "credibility" was at stake, that it was a serious matter and "we wanted it to be investigated straightaway". She said other concerns included "how wage increases had occurred". She said that the fact that Ms Atkins had made the Complaint was not a reason for voting in favour of the resolution.
373 In respect of the BDO investigation, she said:
35. I was involved in the decision for NAAJA to engage BDO to investigate the CEO's conduct. My reason for doing so was because of the signature issue, which was the most pressing issue at the time, but also because of HR matters that came out of the External Review.
36. I can't recall precisely how the Board set the parameters for the BDO investigation.
374 Ms Ellis said that at the January Meeting, BDO presented to the Board "the findings of its investigation, including that [Ms Atkins] had used NAAJA funds for personal loans to buy cars". She said "I felt physically ill about this". She said that she joined in the Termination Resolution because she formed the view that Ms Atkins was "dishonest". She said (at [44]):
… To me, she had obtained benefits from NAAJA by deception. One thing that really annoys me is Aboriginal money being mismanaged and misappropriated.
375 Ms Ellis went on to say that the Complaint did not factor into her decision to join in the Suspension Resolution or the Termination Resolution. She said that she joined in the Termination Resolution so that the Attorneys-General could be notified before the termination took effect as a matter of courtesy to the Governments that funded NAAJA.
376 Ms Ellis said that she was involved in the decision to send the Allegations Letter to Ms Atkins. Said that she agreed that "the Board" should undertake that process "for reasons of natural justice". She said that she recalled reading a response Ms Atkins had provided in her letter dated 17 February 2023 but said that she cannot recall when she first saw the document and said nothing about any view she had formed about its contents.
377 Ms Ellis said that she attended the meeting with NAAJA's lawyers on 20 February 2023, then continued (at [49]):
… By this stage we were adamant that we would terminate [Ms Atkins'] employment. We had given [Ms Atkins] enough time to respond to the Allegations Letter. We had handed material to the police. We were acting on the information as it came in and there was consensus among the Board. We were unanimous on [Ms Atkins'] termination.
378 Ms Ellis said that as at 20 February 2023 she was aware that Ms Atkins had brought a claim in the Fair Work Commission. She said that she was not aware of the commencement of this proceeding, but was aware that proceedings had been threatened. She said that the threat of proceedings was not a reason for her decision to terminate Ms Atkins' employment.
379 In cross-examination, Ms Ellis acknowledged that the Board's responsibilities included those specified in the Board Framework policy document, specifically managing risks and conflicts. However, she asserted that the Board could determine that the management of conflicts within the workplace should be undertaken at an operational level and that the management of conflicts was "ultimately the CEO's responsibility first".
380 Ms Ellis was a member of the Board and a member of the FAR Committee in 2015. She was taken to minutes of a FAR Committee meeting, which she attended remotely. She acknowledged it was a special purpose meeting to discuss a review conducted by NAAJA's then CFO Mr Rossingh about the Vehicle Scheme. She acknowledged that those present at the meeting had been given information about the Vehicle Scheme and its FBT implications. She told the Court that the Board had "uncovered" the Vehicle Scheme at an earlier time in 2015.
381 Ms Ellis was taken to the December 2017 Minutes at which management salaries were discussed. The minutes record Ms Ellis objecting to a resolution for the increase in management salaries, including the increase in Ms Atkins' salary, which had been approved by a resolution. Ms Ellis claimed to have no recollection of the Board meeting at which the pay rise was approved.
382 Ms Ellis agreed that she considered it desirable for there to be a formal tender process for the conduct of the external review ultimately conducted by KPMG, given that NAAJA was publicly funded.
383 On the topic of the Complaint, the cross-examination proceeded as follows:
And you took the view, did you not, Ms Ellis, that Ms Atkins was wrong to have raised the complaint with the board, didn't you?---Not wrong. I'm saying she didn't follow our policies and procedures in regard to some of the complaints.
Well, you identify the NAAJA grievance policy. You say she didn't follow it?---Yes.
And you also say that there are matters there that she should have dealt with herself?---Yes.
And it follows from that, doesn't it, that you were - you thought it was inappropriate that she had raised the complaint with the board?---I thought some of the complaints were very vexatious. Yes, and if you have a look at the complaint, it clearly - I can clearly point out to which ones.
You thought it was inappropriate that she raised the complaint with the board, didn't you, Ms Ellis?---Not inappropriate. I'm saying that the complaint and how we received it and - and in that format, was not up to standard, to be honest.
Yes?---And what you expect of a CEO to do.
Yes. So you were - you thought it was inappropriate that the CEO would raise the - - -?---No, I did not say inappropriate.
You thought it was inappropriate that the CEO would raise a complaint in that form, with that content, with the board?---Yes, I did.
384 In relation to her complaints about procuring the services of an independent scribe for Board meetings, Ms Ellis said that that problem had been addressed by the time of the First November Meeting. When asked why she had included that issue in her affidavit she said that it was included to explain some historical frustrations about the way in which Ms Atkins had organised Board meetings.
385 Ms Ellis was taken to her email to other directors of 13 November 2022, raising things that she felt needed "following up", including:
• When can we expect an action item and timeframe for the CEO contract extension conflict?
• When and how will the grievance submitted by CEO against CFO be addressed - reading through these complaints, much of this relates to the CEO not following our grievance process, how will this be addressed.
386 In cross-examination, Ms Ellis gave this explanation for what she meant:
You're talking about - - -?---Yes.
- - - her failure to follow the process?---There were red - yes.
Yes. Because that was what was looming in your mind when you read the complaint. She hadn't followed the process?---When you look at that complaint letter, you would be concerned too. There were red - there were red flags everywhere in that complaint, and most of it, I took personally - - -
Yes?--- - - - as someone that's major staff in my workplace that she lacked the insight and self-awareness of what her role was in those complaints as CEO.
Yes. I mean, well, that just confirms, doesn't it, that you took an adverse view of what it is that she had put in that complaint?---I took a - I took a - look at the complaint, and you tell me any normal person would not say, 'Hey. What's going on here? There's some red flags happening.'
387 Ms Ellis later said that the allegations in the Complaint were lacking in detail and that her view when she saw that document was that "this is about quantity, not quality of complaints. These are not complaints putting it in a dot point like that". However, she then acknowledged that matters raised in the Complaint justified the Board asking Ms Evans for her response. She acknowledged that she had later formed the view that Ms Evans had not followed the correct process by putting an offer on a property in Katherine without the Board's approval. She also acknowledged that Ms Atkins' complaint about Ms Evans not providing her with IT contracts valued at $1.4m also raised a "red flag" for her.
388 When asked whether her view that the Complaint was vexatious was on her mind when she suggested content for the BDO investigation, Ms Ellis replied "a little bit of that, little bit of the KPMG report ... and [Ms Atkins] actions that she took". The cross-examination continued:
So a number of things, including that one?---Yes. And - and - and - - -
Yes?---It was - it was really - we didn't have a working relationship with her anymore. There's just no trust in her, no confidence in her.
389 Ms Ellis agreed that that was the sentiment that she expressed in the email she circulated on 14 December 2022 setting out her concerns. She said that the view that there was not a tenable working relationship between the Board and Ms Atkins was shared by "pretty much the whole board". She agreed that as at 3 January 2023 when she signed the Terms, she already held the view that the relationship of trust and confidence between the CEO and the Board had failed. She denied that was because of the content of the Complaint.
390 Ms Ellis said a number of times that the Board "never got an opportunity" to talk to Ms Atkins, including because Ms Atkins had "isolated herself from us" and "we had to deal with her through lawyers". There was then this exchange:
You're not suggesting for a moment, are you, that you could not have asked Ms Atkins to provide a response to these matters at the time that you formulated these terms of reference?---Well, yes, it was the board - it was the board's thing that no - I think, by this stage, that we had lost confidence and trust. You know, one of the main mitigating factors of terminating was the loss of confidence and trust in the CEO.
You had already lost trust and confidence before you commenced the investigation?---With the review and with the way she was - she had - she started making accusations to us that went - that was really - a really intense smear campaign against the board. She had sent it to ICAC. She had sent it to the AG. She had sent it all around Australia. She had sent her things to CEOs and politicians. We felt really under threat that we could not have - enter into a - a - a effective communication with her at that stage, yes.
391 Ms Ellis agreed that at the First November Meeting, other directors had raised allegations about Ms Atkins, but she could not recall the context in which they were made. She acknowledged that at that meeting she had raised the issue of vehicles being purchased with NAAJA funds under a scheme that ended in 2015. She was evasive in her responses as to her reasons for raising the topic, asserting repeatedly that she didn't know the "context" of the conversation.
392 Ms Ellis said that she had read the Ward IT Report before the Second November Meeting. She accepted that the effect of the Report was that it seemed that Ms Rosas' electronic signature had not been used on the Contract Extension Letter. She acknowledged that the Suspension Action represented to Ms Atkins that she would have an opportunity to respond to the Board's concerns referred to in it.
393 Ms Ellis acknowledged she was aware that Ms Atkins had been required to deliver up her laptop to a process server. She confirmed that she regarded that demand to form a part of the investigation into whether Ms Rosas' signature had been forged. She acknowledged that between the suspension of Ms Atkins' employment and the demand for delivery up of the laptop NAAJA had not obtained any positive evidence to prove fraud on Ms Atkins' part, but said that the absence of records indicating that Ms Rosas had been asked to sign the Contract Extension Letter added weight to Ms Rosas' claim that she had not in fact signed the letter. It was put to Ms Ellis that by the time the Terms were prepared the signature issue had fallen away. She responded that the issue was not included in the priority item because "the priorities had changed". She said that the instructions to BDO on that issue were given for the purpose of seeing whether Mr Ward had "missed anything".
394 Ms Ellis said that she had known Ms Rosas for a very long time and that she accepted prima facie Ms Rosa's assertion that she had not signed the Contract Extension Letter.
395 When asked again about the reasons for the Suspension Resolution, Ms Ellis said that at the time of the suspension "there were other things in play at that time, as well". She mentioned the KPMG Report, "HR stuff" and nepotism. She said there "there was a lot of issues … coming in every day". She did not accept the proposition that Ms Atkins was suspended solely because of the allegation that her contractual and salary arrangements had been improperly obtained. When asked whether it was now her evidence that the reasons set out in the Suspension Action were not a complete statement she said "I suppose, looking at that now … you would have to say that, yes, there were other things happening".
396 When it was put to Ms Ellis that the allegations underpinning the BDO investigation were entirely new, she said that "what came into play was Ms Atkins' behaviour, as well, because during this period of time, she was ringing up board members and threatening them as well", she referred to allegations Ms Atkins had made in the context of the Fair Work Commission claim and said "[t]he working relationship had broken down. There was no trust. There was no confidence". She went on to say that Ms Atkins "gave us no opportunity to talk to her ... except abusing people" and that "it's basically [Ms Atkins'] own behaviour that stopped her helping herself".
397 Ms Ellis said that the investigation tasked to BDO was not put out to tender because "we had to make a fast decision" and that NAAJA wanted to address some of the "issues" urgently.
398 Ms Ellis said that that she self-nominated to participate in an interview with KPMG, which took place by telephone, but claimed to have no recollection of what she said.
399 Ms Ellis denied that she had formed the view that Ms Akins should be dismissed before she received the BDO Report. She described the tabling of the BDO Report as "the decider". She expressed frustration that NAAJA has been constantly asked by Ms Atkins lawyers to provide information and documents relating to the Allegations Letter. She said that she and others were asking "when are we going to get answers to our questions?".
400 Ms Ellis described Ms Atkins' response to the allegations dated 17 February 2023 as "just the same old deception", "misleading" and "lies".
401 Ms Ellis confirmed that her view that Ms Atkins was dishonest was based on the information contained in the BDO Report. She said that the information provided about the purchase of vehicles by Ms Atkins under the Vehicle Scheme showed "a pattern of dishonesty". When asked to elaborate, she said that Ms Atkins was not being truthful when she said that the Vehicle Scheme had been approved by NAAJA's former chairperson Mr Petterson. She said that Mr Petterson would not have known how many cars had been purchased and that it was a "pun on words" to say that he had approved the Vehicle Scheme.
402 On several occasions Ms Ellis denied that she had already made up her mind to terminate Ms Atkins both before the Termination Resolution and the later decision to send the Termination Letter. However, she later acknowledged that nothing Ms Atkins could have said would have persuaded her, and that she had every reason for her mind to be fixed "because of the deception around these leasing agreements". The following exchange then occurred:
Your mind was fixed on the notion that Ms Atkins had engaged in misconduct over a period of time?---No.
And your mind was fixed on the idea that was engage - she had engaged in misconduct over a period of time, including because of the complaints she made on 7 November?---No. Absolutely not. That had nothing to do with any of it. Like I said, there was a HR grievance process.
Yes. Just another black mark against Ms Atkins, wasn't it?---That she should have known how to address. In the scheme of things, that complaint then was really, three, four, fifth down the line.
403 Ms Ellis said that when the Board discovered the Vehicle Scheme in 2015 it "went berserk" and "[t]hey wanted everybody sacked". When it was put to her that she had not disclosed that in her affidavit she said "[b]ecause it's - I didn't know how".
404 In relation to the February Meeting, Ms Ellis agreed that she became aware that Ms Atkins had commenced this proceeding when she was informed of it by Mr Kellock. She acknowledged having some basic understanding that Ms Atkins had asked this Court for an order to stop NAAJA from dismissing her. She then volunteered the following:
Q: I'm not asking you to give a legal understanding. I'm asking ...
A: All I knew, that at that stage, I had had enough
Q: Yes, had enough
A: And - and a smear campaign against us and all the allegations against us … being corrupt had started. I mean
Q: Yes. You had had enough?
A: I mean, you know, we had to send to two cease and desist letters to her lawyers to stop her from doing it.
Q: Yes. You had had enough, and you wanted her out, didn't you?
A: Yes, absolutely
405 Ms Ellis repeated that she didn't know what an interlocutory injunction was, and that she didn't know what Mr Kellock was talking about when he said the interlocutory application would disappear. She then repeated that Ms Atkins was "smearing" directors, that "we had lost confidence", that the relationship had "totally broken down" and that there was "no trust". The cross-examination concluded:
That's right. And certainly you didn't want an order from this court keeping her in the job, did you?---Was - it's neither here, nor there, is it, at the moment?
I put to the question to you. On 20 February, you didn't want an order from this court keeping her in the job, Ms Ellis?---I don't know what you mean, to be honest.
It's a pretty clear question. What's the answer?---I don't know. We didn't want an order made against us to keep her in the job.
Yes. That's right?---How - how can you say that when we're here?
Let's just focus on my question?---That's my understanding. I don't know - it's just going around and around in circles. So I just don't know what he's saying.