[2026] NSWDC 21
General information, not legal advice.
District Court of NSW
2026-02-27
Mahony SC DCJ
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Source: NSW Caselaw (www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au). Converted to plain text by ZoeLaw. Not the official version.
Medium Neutral Citation: R v RE [2026] NSWDC 21
Hearing dates: 21 October 2025 - 23 October 2025; 8 February 2026 - 13 February 2026
Date of orders: 27 February 2026
Decision date: 27 February 2026
Jurisdiction: Criminal
Before: Mahony SC DCJ
Decision: Verdict of Not Guilty
Catchwords: Sexual touching; principle of incontrovertibility of acquittal on second count following appeal; defence of sexsomnia
Legislation Cited: Criminal Procedure Act 1986 (NSW)
Cases Cited: Abdullah v R [2019] NSWCCA 294
Barney v R [2023] NSWCCA 85
R v Carroll (2002) 213 CLR 635; [2002] HCA 55
RE v R [2024] NSWCCA 180
The Queen v Storey (1978) 140 CLR 364
Category: Principal judgment
Parties: RE (the accused)
Director of Public Prosecutions (NSW) (the Crown)
Representation: Counsel:
Mr T Weller-Wong (the accused)
Mr G Whitaker (the Crown)
Ms H Cantor (the Crown)
Solicitors:
Lamont Law (the accused)
Director of Public Prosecutions (NSW) (the Crown)
File Number(s): 2021/00044304
Publication restriction: Pursuant to s15A of the Children’s (Criminal Proceedings) Act 1987 (NSW) and s578A of the Crimes Act 1900 (NSW), publication of the name of, or any matter which could identity the complainant is prohibited
JUDGMENT ON VERDICT
Overview of the Crown case
Evidence in the Crown case
Evidence of the complainant, MG
Evidence of the complainant’s mother, NG
Evidence of Mr Emad Guirguis
Evidence of RG
Evidence of Preetham Jalady
Evidence of XG
Evidence of GE
Evidence of SI
Evidence of the Officer-In-Charge
ERISP of the accused
Summary of the expert evidence in the case
Evidence of Dr Antonio Fernando
Evidence of Dr Richard Furst
Evidence of Dr Jeremy O’Dea
Evidence of Dr Pieternel Van Nieuwenhuijzen
Further evidence for the accused
Directions of law
The Crown submissions
The accused’s address
Further directions of law
Agreed facts pursuant to s191 of the Evidence Act 1995
Further findings regarding reliability of witness’ evidence
The complainant
Further findings of fact
Determination
“On 22 January 2021, at Ettalong Beach, in the State of New South Wales, did intentionally sexually touch MG, being a child above the age of 10 years and under the age of 16 years, namely, 14 years.”
An appeal following verdicts of guilty on two Counts in a previous trial was successful and a new trial ordered on Count 1 – see RE v R [2024] NSWCCA 180. An order pursuant to s132 of the Criminal Procedure Act 1986 (NSW) (“the CPA”) for trial by judge alone was made on 21 August 2025 by Wilson DCJ.
A further order was made that the complainant, whose evidence on re-trial was to be by way of replaying the audio-visual recording of her evidence in the previous trial, was required for further cross-examination pursuant to s306D(2) of the CPA. At the commencement of the trial the Crown informed the Court that the complainant was unable to attend court due to illness and had obtained a medical certificate for 21 October 2025. That certificate was subsequently extended for the period 21 October 2025 until 24 October 2025.
The trial proceeded by agreement between the parties by the calling of other evidence. First the ERISP of the accused by investigating police on 16 February 2021 was played and the transcript marked MFI 6. The wife of the accused, GE, then gave evidence and was cross-examined.
By agreement, the transcript of the following witnesses’ evidence in the previous trial was tendered and initially marked for identification:-
Evidence of the complainant’s sister, whose name has been anonymised to XG, on 28 November 2023 – MFI 4, which became Exhibit Q
Evidence of Preetham Jalady on 28 November 2023 – MFI 5, which became Exhibit R
Evidence of SI on 4 December 2023 – MFI 7, which became Exhibit S
Evidence of Lisa Hamilton on 30 November 2023 – MFI 8, which became Exhibit T
In his opening address, counsel for the accused identified the issues in the trial as follows:-
Whether the conduct alleged in Count 1 did occur, or alternatively,
If it did occur, whether the conduct was neither intentional nor voluntary but rather occurred as a result of the accused suffering a parasomnia known as sexsomnia. The evidence concerning that issue was also dealt with by way of relying on the transcripts of the following evidence from the first trial:-
(i) Dr Antonio Fernando, evidence given on 29 November 2023 and 1 December 2023 – (Exhibit U, formerly MFI 9) (ii) Evidence of Dr Richard Furst given on 1 December 2023 – (Exhibit V, formerly MFI 10) (iii) Evidence of Dr Jeremy O’Dea given on 4 December 2023 – (Exhibit W, formerly MFI 11)
In January 2021 a number of families who were close friends arranged to go on a holiday together at a hotel in Ettalong Beach. That included the family of the complainant, MG who was born on 20 May 2006 and was 14 at the time. They were there from the 20th to 26th of January 2021.
The accused also attended with his family. The two families, with others, would socialise during the day and meet for dinner at night. On Friday 22 January 2021 the Crown case is that after a day at the beach an arrangement was made for the various families to meet for dinner that night. At approximately 8:00 p.m. the complainant and her mother, NG went to the hotel room that was occupied by the accused and his wife to arrange that night’s activities. As they were staying on different levels of the hotel and a security card was required to enter each level, they were met in the reception by the accused’s wife and taken to the accused’s hotel room. When they arrived the accused was laying in the bed in that room. Also in the room was a sofa which was capable of becoming a sofa bed, and a number of chairs. The air conditioning was on and the complainant, who felt cold, asked her mother if it could be turned off. Her mother told her to leave the air conditioning on and to get into the bed next to the accused who she referred to as “Uncle” and sit under the blankets.
The Crown case is that the complainant sat cross-legged on the bed with the blankets over her and that the accused was laying on his left side facing away from the complainant and towards his wife and the complainant’s mother who were seated on the sofa bed.
For a period of some 45 minutes to 1 hour, the two women were engaging in conversation and the TV was on. The complainant was communicating with her then boyfriend, DM via Instagram on her mobile phone during this period.
The Crown case is that after a period of some 45 minutes the accused who was still laying on his left side reached behind him with his right arm and began stroking the complainant’s leg with his fingertips. He then stroked her leg further up her thigh and began rubbing her vagina on the outside of the shorts she was wearing under her dress. This conduct constituted the offence of sexual touching on the Indictment.
At the time this was occurring the complainant was communicating what was happening by messages to DM on Instagram. Those messages included the complainant saying, “His trying to finger me” (sic) and DM saying, “Tell him to stop.” During the alleged event the complainant took three photos on her mobile phone and sent them to DM. The text messages are contained in Annexure A to Exhibit H which set out agreed facts in the matter.
The Crown case is that this activity continued for approximately 7 minutes at which point the accused’s phone rang. It is common ground that the accused’s wife had to tell him that his phone was ringing and that he had to get out of bed to answer it. A factual dispute concerns whether the accused answered the phone or whether he had to call the caller back. What is clear is that the accused spoke on the phone to another member of the group, Mr E Guirguis who was invited to join them in the accused’s room, before they were to go to dinner at a club next door.
The complainant made no complaint of inappropriate behaviour by the accused to any adult present during the holiday. She however had told her boyfriend DM who told the complainant’s sister’s boyfriend, Preetham Jalady who subsequently spoke to the complainant. The following week the complainant told her mother about the incident and the matter was reported to police. What follows is a summary of the evidence in the Crown case, but not in the order in which the evidence was adduced at trial because of the unavailability of the complainant and her mother to give evidence which caused the trial to be adjourned.
The complainant gave evidence that she had the opportunity to listen to her previous evidence given in the first trial before the District Court in Gosford and her record of interview by police. Except for one matter, the evidence was true and accurate. The NSW Police interview on 10 February 2021 (Exhibit L) and the complainant’s previous evidence on 27 and 28 November 2023 (Exhibit M) were played to the court.
MG’s interview with police took place on 10 February 2021 when she was 14 years of age. She told police that she went to the room of the accused and his wife at the hotel at around 8:00 p.m. After they arrived, she asked her mother if they could turn the air conditioning off because it was cold in the room. Her mother told her to “just go next to your uncle RE and just sit under the blankets with him.” She told police that she sat on the bed next to the accused under the sheets and she was sitting in a crossing legs position and that he was facing the other way, meaning away from her. Her mother and the accused’s wife were on the other bed in the room, referred to as the sofa bed.
The complainant said she was talking to her boyfriend by way of messaging him on Instagram. She gave the following account to the police:-
Q84 Yep.
A - - - so, he just started to, like, stroke my leg a bit; it was a bit strange, but, I just thought it was, maybe, like, oh, just h, him, like, being an uncle, like, oh, just, like, being nice, or something - - -
Q85 Uh-huh.
A- - - then, he started to go up my leg a bit, and he started to, like, I don’t, I don’t know how it was, like, rub, kind of, my, like, vagina - - -
Q86 Yep.
A - - - like, but, it was on top of my shorts, um, so, he was just, like, r, rubbing it, and he, he, it was, like, very, quite aggressive - - -
Q87 Uh-huh.
A - - - um, then, he just did that for a few minutes, and while he was doing that, I was texting my boyfriend like, I just, like, I just started, like, writing in caps, and I was, like, I was like, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Like, like, like, Babe, this, like, guy is, like, my uncle is, like, touching me. I don’t know what to do. And he was like, Get up. Get off the bed. Whatever. Like, like, Leave. Like, Try and get up. Te, like, Tell him to stop. Scream. And just told me, like, to do something, and - - -
Q88 Yep.
A - - - I was like, I can’t, like, I can’t do anything. He is like my mum’s best friend. I can’t do anything. And I’m pretty sure, like, um, I, I sent my sister the screenshots - - -
…
Q90[12:50] Yep.
A - - - I am not sure if you guys have that. Um, but, yeah. So, I was, like, texting him, and then, he was doing that for about, maybe, like, 7 minutes, I think, like, I am just guessing - - -
Q91 Yep.
A - - - and then, afterwards, um, he got a phone call, and he is doing this without looking at me, like, he is facing the other way, and his, like, right hand, I’m pretty sure, was just, like, touching me - - -
Q92 Uh-huh.
A - - - so it wasn’t too obvious, and it was under the blankets as well, so, you - - -
Q93 Yep.
A - - -can’t ..... see anything. And I was just, like, silent; I didn’t know what to do. And then, um, his phone starts to ring, and then, his, like, wife is, like, oh, like, Your phone’s ringing, and he, like, gets up. I am not sure if he was, like, pretending to sleep, or if he was, like, watching TV, but, when we first walked in the room, he looked, like, tired, but, I am pretty, like, I know he wasn’t sleeping, because when he, like, answered the phone, like, he looked wide awake, and he answered the phone - - -
Q482 So, from there, wh, what did he do?
A He, kind of, just, like, went and started to touch, like, my vagi-, but, like, on top of my shorts.
Q483 Yep. OK. So, where did his hand go?
A On my vagina - - -
…
Q494 Yep. So, what did he do when he was touching you, um, on the outside of your clothes, on your vagina?
A (NO AUDIBLE REPLY)
Q495 What, what - - -
A Like - - -
Q496 - - - was his hand doing then?
A He was just, like, rubbing; uh, I am not really sure - - -
Q497 Yep.
A - - - but, yeah.
Q498 What sort of, um, rubbing was his do, was he doing?
A (NO AUDIBLE REPLY)
Q499 Like, what sort of motion?
A Like, like, up, and down, and around - - -
Q500[13:27] Yep.
A - - - in, like, circles, kind of.
Q501 Yep. And how did that make you feel?
The complainant told police that the accused’s phone started ringing and his wife told him that it was ringing and he got up to answer the phone. Whilst he was sitting on the sofa bed, she took a photo of him and immediately sent it to her boyfriend, DM. This photo became Exhibit B in the proceedings.
In her evidence at the first trial, the complainant gave the following evidence:-
“Q. How long between when you first got on that bed, and were texting your boyfriend, and when RE first touched you on the thigh? Can you estimate how long a time period that would’ve been?
A. Maybe about 45 minutes to an hour. Like, I was there for a bit until he did that. Yes.”
Q. In that time period, so what I’m saying is between when you first got on the bed and when he first started touching you, what could you hear in the room, if anything?
A. Just the TV playing, my mum and GE talking, that’s it really, RE wasn’t really talking, because he was so-called asleep, or tired I guess.
Q. You just heard the TV, and your mum GE talking. Is that right?
A. Yeah, and I was just on my phone, I wasn’t, like, really paying attention too much to what was going on.
“Q. Then DM says, “Baby, tell him to stop”. At that point in time, you send a photo. Can you remember what that photo was that you sent or not?
A. I believe it was one on the end of the bed because I think I sent him two photos within this exchange of messages and I think it was just me trying to sneakily take a photo, like, of him somewhat near the bed or, like, it was the covers of the bed or something.
Q. So you say you think you sent two photos and you said you think this is the one on the end of the bed. You mentioned the covers. Can you remember what the other photo you sent was?
A. Wait. If I just go through the messages - cause the second image was after he had gotten up to answer a phone call. But the first image, I think it was just of him, like - I think it was literally just the covers that were there. It wasn’t – it couldn’t really show much.
Q. So you recall taking two photos and sending them, one on the end of the bed and the covers - and the other one of him and the covers. Is that right?
A. Yes, that was, like, in the start and you couldn’t really see much or anything. You kind of just see, like, his body, kind of, in the bed but the covers just kind of covering that. So it just looked, yeah, not very clear.
…
Q. In your interview, you mention secretly trying to take a photo?
A. Yes.
Q. I’ll just remind you of what you said in your interview. For the record, it’s at question and answer 561 in the transcript, which is MFI 3. You say, “He got up and got it, and sat on the end of GE’s bed, and at that time, like, I tried to kind of secretly take a photo”?
A. Mm-hmm.
…
Q. Can you remember what that photo was of?
A. Yes. It was him sitting on the other bed, so my mum’s bed, the sofa bed, on the other side, and he had sat on the end of the bed and answered the phone call, and it was like his back sitting on the bed kind of thing to—”
“Q. Would you be able to hold that up for the camera, please? Are you able to say whether or not that’s the photo you took at that point in time, in the text messages where we just got to, at 8:46pm?
A. It wasn’t accurately as I, like, remember, because my memory isn’t the best, but yes, it was definitely, like, this photo, and that was, like, kind of roughly what I thought it was going to be.
Q. That caption there, “it’s him” with an emoticon, do you remember whether you put that caption on there, or not?
A. Yes, that would be me.
Q. Did you send that photo to DM?
A. Yes.”
“Q. Do you know what photo that was?
A. Not off the top of my head. I remember the first two, when it was just, like, an unclear image of, like, the bed, and then the one showing more of him. I can’t really remember it, it might have just been of the bed again, or of my face. I can’t remember.”
“Q. But certainly at some stage, when his phone rang, his wife had to repeat herself a number of occasions to apparently get him to wake up and answer the phone?
A. Supposedly, yes.
Q. You say, “supposedly”. I understand you might have some difficulty with it, but objectively that’s what you heard?
A. Yes.
Q. You heard her say on a number of - call his name loudly on a number of occasions?
A. Yes.
Q. Asking him to wake up, correct?
A. Yes.”
“A. When we had first entered the room, he wasn’t fully asleep, like he was awake. Like, he seemed tired, but awake. Not fully asleep.”
She gave evidence that her mother was on the sofa bed closest to her, but she was sitting up and facing the accused’s wife.
The complainant identified the photograph she took of the accused when he got out of bed and went to answer his phone, which became Exhibit 3 in the first trial and Exhibit B in this trial.
She gave evidence that it was after the accused got back into bed that the conduct complained of in the acquittal Count 2 occurred.
The complainant was further cross-examined in this trial and denied having a disagreement with her boyfriend in the Instagram messaging on the night in question. She was cross-examined at length about messaging that took place prior to the messages that appear in Annexure A to Exhibit H but conceded that at some point, DM had become upset or offended by the content of her messages. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. At this point, in these messages that I’ve just been asking you about, are you accepting that he was upset at that point?
A. I can’t speak on how he felt, no.
Q. Did you think that he might be upset at that point?
A. Not to a degree of really upset, but maybe just a bit cut.
Q. Can you just explain for us what “a bit cut” means?
A. I would say a bit upset, but not to the point where he would avoid me, or ignore me, or be really frustrated with me. No, I wouldn’t say. To a drastic extent, I guess.
Q. His last message to you, on page 16, says, “ALR whatever.” What did you take that to mean?
A. Sorry?
Q. His last message, on page 16, to you said, “ALR whatever.” What does “ALR” mean?
A. All right whatever.
Q. If you then turn the page, you can see on the top right-hand corner you say, “OMG,” oh my God, “are you serious.” Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember if you were feeling annoyed at DM when you sent that message?
A. I think I was just shocked at the fact that he - that I had a sense that he might’ve been taking me seriously.
The complainant conceded that she became quite concerned that DM was mad at her and that he was annoyed at the previous conversation between them.
The accused’s case was put to the complainant as follows:-
Q. I want to suggest to you that RE did not touch you while he was in the bed. Would you agree or disagree with that?
A. Disagree.
Q. I’d like to suggest to you that at no stage did he rub your vagina in the bed, would you agree or disagree with that?
A. I would disagree.
Q. I would like to suggest to you that he did not rub your thigh in the bed, do you agree or disagree with that?
Q. And I want to suggest to you that you had a motive to make up that allegation in order to patch things up with DM, do you agree or disagree with that?
A. Disagree.
The complainant confirmed that she told DM about the allegation she made concerning Count 1 and that DM told her sister’s boyfriend, Preetham Jalady.
The complainant confirmed her evidence that the accused received a phone call, that he got out of bed and went to the tv cabinet to answer the phone. She denied that he had missed a phone call and called the person back.
The complainant confirmed that she had told police she was sitting on the very edge of the bed and that she could not see the accused’s face as he was facing away from her towards her mother and his wife. She confirmed that she had told police she was approximately one ruler’s length away from the accused. The complainant agreed with the proposition that the accused stayed in the same position the whole time she was in bed until he exited the bed to answer his phone.
She confirmed her evidence that it would have been his right hand that touched her thigh and that he would have had to move that arm behind himself to do so. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. And I take it by that, indicating that action, that he was moving his whole right arm at the time in which you say he was touching you?
A. Under the blanket, yes.
Q. Yes, but he would have had to have been moving the entirety of his right arm, is that correct?
A. Not really, it’s just, like, behind him and his hands moving. He doesn’t really need to move his whole arm.
Q. But he had to move his whole arm in order to reach back there, is that correct?
A. Yes, to move his arm, obviously, yes.
Q. Your evidence, I think, for my friend’s benefit, from about 468 to 473 of the record of interview, was that he started by tapping your thigh?
A. I think it was more, I can’t remember exactly, but I believe it was like caressing, like more, like, touching my thigh, but I can’t remember exactly how, but I think it was dragging his fingers up and down it was, is how it started. Running his fingers up and down my thighs.
Q. At question 468, you were asked, “And how did that make you feel when he did that?” and your answer was, “Um, like, I thought it was just maybe like a fatherly, like, uncle, like”, and then you made a motion, “And then just like tapping your thigh kind of thing”.
A. Yes. I meant that like when you get a pat on the back from your uncle or when you get a tap on your thigh, that’s how I was, I was describing, that’s what I initially thought it was, when he was running his fingers up and down my thigh.
…
Q. Is it your recollection that when he was touching your thigh that he ran his fingers up and down your thigh?
A. Initially how it started, yes.
Q. And that was the entire length of your thigh, is that right?
A. I believe so.
Q. And your evidence has been that after that he started to rub you on the vagina on the top of your shorts?
A. Yes.
Q. Whilst your legs were crossed and your knees were open?
A. Yes.
Q. In terms of rubbing your vagina, you gave evidence in the record of interview to the police that he rubbed your vagina aggressively for a few minutes? Is that consistent with your recollection?
A. That it was a couple minutes?
Q. A few minutes, I think were your words. So I was asking you that your evidence has been that he rubbed your vagina aggressively for a few minutes. Is that consistent with your recollection now?
A. (No verbal reply)
Q. Pardon?
A. Yes, yes.
…
Q. The words you used when you were describing RE rubbing your vagina, was question 86, “It was, like, very quite aggressive”. What was aggressive about it?
A. The way, like, the pressure of his fingers, I guess I was trying to explain, but I didn’t know how to at the time. I would say more of the pressure that he was putting on to me.
Q. And the movement that he was engaging in?
A. Yes, it was quite rigorous, I guess, is, I don’t know how to really explain it too well.
Q. Vigorous?
A. Vigorous, yeah.
Q. And was he moving the entirety of his arm at this point?
A. Not really. It’s mostly just a hand movement.
Q. And I think it was your evidence that you didn’t try and move or you didn’t say anything, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Once again, I’d just like to suggest to you that at no point in time in the bed did RE rub your right thigh. Do you agree or disagree with that?
A. Not my right thigh, no.
Q. Pardon me, or your left thigh?
A. My left - sorry?
…
Q. At no point in time did he rub your left thigh either. Do you agree or disagree with that?
A. He did touch my left thigh, yes.
Q. I’d suggest to you that he did not rub your vagina on top of the clothing either. Do you agree or disagree with that?
A. I disagree. He touched me on top of my clothing - my vagina.
“A. I would say I got into the bed, and I sat comfortably and in a reasonable position and a reasonable distance away from RE.
Q. What does a reasonable position mean?
A. I think just, like, like, I was sitting upright and I wasn’t lying down, sleeping, turned or anything like that.”
NG gave evidence with the benefit of an Arabic interpreter. She arrived in Australia with her family in 2003 and met the accused’s family and others through their church. She became friendly with the accused’s wife, GE who she referred to as “GE”. The two families socialised every weekend and went on holidays together with other families from the church.
One of those holidays occurred in January 2021 at Ettalong.
NG gave evidence that her youngest daughter, MG considered GE as an aunt and the accused as her uncle.
NG gave evidence that on 22 January 2021 they all went to the beach. That evening, the accused’s wife called her and asked her to go to their room to discuss where they were going for dinner that evening. That call took place at about 7:30 p.m. She went with the complainant to reception where they met GE who took them to the room occupied by the accused and GE. Exhibit F comprised photographs of the room showing the double bed and sofa bed as well as other furniture.
NG gave evidence that she could not remember where the accused was when they walked into the room. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. Yes. Did you see what he did in the room at any time after you entered?
A. INTERPRETER: We all laid down on the bed and he was as well.
…
Q. Where did you lie down?
A. INTERPRETER: I was lying next to GE on the sofa bed.
Q. And when you say lying, are you able to describe what you mean by you were lying? What was your body position?
A. INTERPRETER: My back was supported to the back of the sofa and my legs are extended in front.
Q. And where was the next person in the room?
A. INTERPRETER: Anyone? GE was next to me and RE was on double bed.
Q. When you say GE was next to you, do you mean on the sofa, on the sofa bed?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes.
Q. Who was closest to the bed that you describe as the double bed?
A. INTERPRETER: GE was close.
Q. You said the accused was on the double bed. Which side of the double bed was he on?
A. INTERPRETER: He was next to GE.
Q. So on the side that’s closest to the sofa bed?
A. INTERPRETER: Correct.
NG gave evidence that after they entered the room the complainant told her she was cold and she told the complainant, “Go sit next to uncle RE and cover yourself”. The complainant was wearing a dress and went to the bed and sat next to the accused. She was holding her phone.
NG gave evidence that the TV was on and she was speaking to GE for about 1 hour.
NG gave evidence that they were in the room for approximately 1 ½ hours. During that time she was generally looking at the TV. She had a short memory of MG holding her phone but was not looking at her face to face.
NG gave evidence that while she was in the room there was a phone call which was answered by the accused. She could not remember how long the phone rang for or if anyone said anything in the room. The accused was lying on the bed and got out of bed to answer the phone. She could not remember anything that was said during the phone call and at the end of the call, she gave evidence that he went to lie down on the bed again. The complainant had remained on the bed during the phone call. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. Do you remember how long between the accused getting back into bed after the phone call and someone getting out of the bed?
A. INTERPRETER: Not long time, because RE went downstairs to get Samah and Emad, but I cannot remember exactly how long.
Q. When you say “not a long time,” are you able to give some kind of a rough estimate so we can understand what you mean?
A. INTERPRETER: I cannot tell exactly. He went back to bed for some times, then Samah and Emad rang the phone again to - to go down to pick them up - to pick them up.
Q. Did MG ever leave the bed?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes, she did.
Q. What did she do?
A. INTERPRETER: She sat on the chair next to me, close to the balcony.
Q. She left the bed and returned to a chair?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes.
Q. Did you say anything to her?
A. INTERPRETER: Yeah. I told her, “Why did you get out of the bed? Aren’t you cold?”
Q. “Aren’t you cold?” What did she say?
A. INTERPRETER: She said, “Yes. I am freezing cold.”
Q. Did you say anything?
A. INTERPRETER: I told her, “Go back to bed.” She said, “No.”
…
Q. Did you notice anything about her when she said those things?
A. INTERPRETER: No. She was only cold.
NG gave evidence that Mr and Mrs Guirguis, who were friends, then came into the room and that a conversation took place between Samah Guirguis and MG about the dress Samah was wearing. All of them then left the room at approximately 9:00 p.m. She gave evidence that the group met at reception and they went next door to the Diggers Club for dinner. During dinner she received a phone call from her daughter, XG who asked to speak to the complainant. She gave evidence that they spoke on the phone for a long time but she could not hear the conversation.
NG gave evidence that she and her family arrived home on Monday, 26 January. The following Saturday, her daughter XG told her something had happened during the holiday. She gave this evidence:-
Q. Had you noticed anything about MG during that time before XG talked to you?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes. I noticed that she didn’t eat a lot.
Q. She didn’t eat a lot. Can you explain that to us, what you--
A. INTERPRETER: When we used to go order some fast-food she was - she didn’t eat them even though she like, she likes or she likes to eat fast-food. Also, she didn’t eat her food. When I prepared food for her, took the lunch box to school, she didn’t eat it.
Q. Do you remember what was said in that conversation?
A. INTERPRETER: I asked her to tell me what happened exactly. She told me what happened but she was a bit shy. She didn’t tell me all the details.
Q. If you can, doing your best, okay, remembering back, to the best of ability can you say, “I said,” and the words that you said, to the best of your memory, “She said,” and the words she said, to the best of her memory, and tell us about the conversation like that? To the best of your - you interpret and then I’ll say another thing, okay, Madam Interpreter? When you started, in relation to what you first said, can you say, “I said,” and then the best you can do at what you said?
A. INTERPRETER: I asked her, “What happened exactly?”
Q. And then stop. And then did she say something next?
A. INTERPRETER: I said, “What the - what that - what this - what happened is right, correct or not?” She wasn’t able to answer.
Q. What does that mean? Stop. We’ll just go really slowly, okay? I know it can be tempting to keep going fast. Can you interpret please?
A. INTERPRETER: I asked her what happened is right, she said yes. I told her, “Tell me exactly what happened”.
Q. Okay, just stop. When you say you asked her what happened is right, did you tell her anything about what you thought happened?
A. INTERPRETER: No, I asked her because XG told me what had happened.
Q. So you asked her what--
A. INTERPRETER: But not in this sense.
Q. Did you tell her what you were having a conversation about?
A. INTERPRETER: XG told me, she knew that XG told me.
…
Q. What did MG say back?
A. INTERPRETER: She said he started to put his hand. I told her, “From outside or from inside?” She said, “It was deep inside”. And then she told me after he came back from the phone call, “He did it again”. I told, I told her, “Was it inside, inside, deep inside?” I said, she said, “Yes”. Then I said, “Does it hurt you? Did it hurt you?” She said, “I wasn’t comfortable”.
Q. Was there any more conversation about it?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes, I told her, “Why you didn’t do anything, why you didn’t get up off the bed, why you didn’t scream, why you didn’t call me?” At the beginning, she said, “I don’t know”. Then she said, “I didn’t want to ruin the holiday, or GE, GE is your best friend, and I don’t want to cause any problem between both of you, and I didn’t, and I don’t want, I didn’t want to go on the holiday”.
NG gave evidence that in the two days following the wife of the accused called her several times, but she didn’t pick up. She then gave evidence that on Thursday, 4 February 2021 she took her daughter to the police.
In cross-examination, NG confirmed that she was sitting on the sofa bed on the side closest to the balcony. The accused’s wife was sitting closer to the accused. She agreed that her view of RE’s face was obstructed as was her view of the complainant. She gave evidence that she could not see the accused’s face. She agreed that she did not tell police in her statement that the accused was watching TV with herself and GE. Nor did she give that evidence in the first trial. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. From the evening in the hotel room, did you form the view that RE was asleep?
A. INTERPRETER: No. He wasn’t asleep. He was awake and he - while I was there, he was awake.
Q. Specifically, at the time he answered the phone he was asleep, is that correct?
A. INTERPRETER: No.
HIS HONOUR: You mean at the time before he answered the phone?
WELLER-WONG: Yes.
Q. The time immediately before he answered the phone, he was asleep, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: No, he wasn’t.
Q. Could I take you to page 177 down the bottom. Do you see some numbers down the left-hand side? Can you see the number “25”?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. I’d just like to read to you from that page:
“Q. I suggest that there were a couple of things that happened; the phone rang and was unanswered. Do you recall that?
A. INTERPRETER: No. He answered.”
Q. Do you see that?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes.
Q. When you said “he answered,” you were referring to RE, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes.
Q. Next question:
“Q. GE then woke him up by calling his name and telling him to answer the phone?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes. She said, “RE, RE, like, get up and answer the call.”
A. INTERPRETER: When I said “asleep,” I meant that he was lying down--
Q. No, ma’am. The question was, do you see there:
“Q. GE then woke him up by calling his name and telling him to answer the phone?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes. She said, “RE, RE, like, get up and answer the call.”
Q. Do you see that?
A. INTERPRETER: I didn’t mean that she woke him up. I meant she asked him to get up off the bed.
Q. Then with respect, could you answer my question, please? My question was do you see that answer there?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes, I can see. She said, “RE, get up, answer the call, answer the phone.”
Q. The important part of that question and answer that I’m trying to direct your attention to now is that the question suggested that GE woke him up by calling his name and telling him to answer the phone, and then your answer was, “Yes, she said, ‘RE, RE, like get up and answer the call’.” Do you see that?
A. INTERPRETER: That was a mistake. l didn’t mean that.
Q. Your answer to that question is agreeing with the proposition that GE woke him up, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: No. What I meant, that she said to him, “Get up.”
Q. That’s not what you said, is it, in your answer?
A. INTERPRETER: Maybe that was a wrong answer but that’s what had happened.
Q. Can I take you to the next question at line 35: “Q. Did she say these words: ‘RE, RE, your phone is ringing. Pick up your phone?’” Do you see those words there?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes, I can see.
Q. Can you then see answer, “Interpreter: Yeah, she, she woke him up and she said, ‘RE, RE, your phone’.”
A. INTERPRETER: Again, I meant that she asked him to get up and she did not wake him up.
Q. That’s not what you said, is it?
A. INTERPRETER: That was a mistake, yes, and I explained it to his Honour.
Q. No, no, no, no. You didn’t say that GE told him to get up. What you in fact said was that she woke him up, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes, because I said it in Arabic and I said the Arabic word name which - but I meant laying down, not sleep, and then I said to him - yeah, and when I said, “She woke him up,” I meant that she asked him to get up.
Q. When the interpreter interpreted your answer to that question, you did not correct the interpreter, did you?
A. INTERPRETER: No, I did not. I did not.
Q. That is because the truth of the matter is, is that you thought GE was waking up RE when she called out to him, correct?
A. WITNESS: No.
A. INTERPRETER: No.
Q. You know that the issue of RE being asleep when he answered the phone is an important matter in this trial, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: No, I don’t know. How would I know?
Q. You have no idea?
A. INTERPRETER: I knew later, I got to know later after the trial, but not during the trial.
Q. You know that when GE contacted you in the days or week after the events that she had asked you whether RE was asleep at the time, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: She said, “Ask MG if RE was awake or asleep.”
Q. You were aware that at least GE had raised whether or not RE was asleep at the time that these events had occurred?
A. INTERPRETER: I didn’t answer that because she wanted to tell me that RE was asleep during these events or event, what happened, but I didn’t believe, and she said, “Ask MG.”
Q. You knew, as a consequence of your conversation with GE, that GE was at least interested to know whether RE was asleep or awake at the time these things happened, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: I don’t know why she asked this question.
Q. Can I suggest to you that you actually have no idea whether RE was awake or asleep just before he answered the phone?
A. INTERPRETER: I don’t know understand.
Q. Can I suggest to you that actually have no idea whether or not RE was asleep or awake at the time at which - the time immediately before he answered the phone?
A. INTERPRETER: He was awake, because we were all present in the room. Since we arrived, he was awake.
Q. You have just made an assumption that he was awake and watching TV with you, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: He was awake. When I entered the room he was awake and he was awake with us. When GE told him to answer the phone, he did, and he went downstairs to get the people. I didn’t see him asleep.
Q. One your evidence, you haven’t actually given evidence of seeing him doing anything, as you can’t remember where he was, what he was doing, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: Yeah, I saw him when we first entered the room and then we sat, sat down, but after that, I didn’t - I have no recollection, yeah.
Q. For 45 minutes to an hour after you entered the room, you’ve got no recollection if - what, if any, RE was doing, correct?
A. INTERPRETER: I cannot remember.
Q. You don’t actually remember what RE was doing when you entered the room either, do you?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes, he was somewhere in the room, but I cannot remember what he was doing.
Q. And you don’t remember if he said anything when you entered the room either, do you?
A. INTERPRETER: No, I cannot remember.
Q. So a moment ago, you gave evidence that he was awake when you entered the room. Is that correct?
A. INTERPRETER: Yes, he was awake.
Q. But you can’t remember where he was?
A. INTERPRETER: No.
Q. You can’t remember if he said anything?
A. INTERPRETER: No.
Q. You can’t remember what he was doing?
A. INTERPRETER: The room is small. I cannot remember exactly what he was doing.
Q. So can I suggest to you again that you’ve actually just made an assumption that he was awake when you entered the room. Is that correct?
A. INTERPRETER: No, he was awake because GE told me come down. That’s why we, we went. Otherwise, why would I go there to the room?
Q. Can I suggest to you that RE, in fact, missed a telephone call? Do you agree with that?
A. INTERPRETER: I don’t know.
Q. And after he missed the telephone call, he actually called somebody back?
A. INTERPRETER: I don’t know.
Mr Guirguis met the accused and his family 42 years ago in Egypt. The witness gave evidence that he became friends with the accused in around 2007 when he returned to Australia and described his relationship with the accused as “good”. Mr Guirguis gave evidence that he met the G family through the accused’s family.
The witness gave evidence that he went on a holiday to Ettalong with the accused’s family and the G family in January 2021. He gave evidence about the evening of 22 January 2021 as follows:-
Q. There are arrangements that the members of your group would go back to their hotel rooms, but then meet up later, after showering, to go out for the evening to the club. I that right?
A. Yes, correct. We spent all day, actually, on the beach that day, and we got straight out of the beach to the restaurant to have our dinner, and by 7pm, all of us, we left to go to a hotel to get showered and change, and we decided to go to the club next door to the hotel.
Q. That evening, after you’d gone back to your hotel room, you called RE later on that evening. Is that right?
A. Yes, correct. After we got ready, me and my missus, I gave him a call just to see what we’re going to do, “Are we going to the club now?” Just to let them know we are ready, me and my missus.
Q. It’s the case that when you called him, he didn’t answer, but he called you back shortly afterwards. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. When you spoke to him that first time on the phone, how did RE appear to you on the phone?
A. That’s not first time. That’s second time. When he gets back to me first time, he didn’t answer.
Q. So the first time, you didn’t speak to him?
A. Yep.
Q. So when he called you back and you spoke to him on the first time on the phone, I’m asking you about that phone call, how did he appear to you on the phone?
A. I ask him, “We are ready, RE. Are we going now? Why you didn’t answer?” He said, “I was sleeping”.
Q. What else was discussed on the phone.
A. “We are ready. We’re ready to go, me and my missus, and are we going to meet 10 o’clock down at the club?” He said, “No, we’re not ready yet and other friend, Mr Atef and his missus, going to come to my room. Just come, you and Samantha, to the room and we’re going from there”.
Q. Are you able to say whether he appeared responsive to what you were saying to him on the phone?
A. We are talking.
Q. So are you able to say whether he was able to respond to what you were saying? Did he appear to understand what you were saying?
A. Yeah, he get back to me. He called me second time, which is mean he know what he doing.
Q. What happened after that phone call?
A. We arranged together. I told him, “RE, we are ready. We ready to go, me and Samantha”. After four, five minutes, after he told me, “Come to the room”, to go from there, I agreed and I called him, “You must get me from the elevator then”, because my room was in the third floor and his room in the second floor and the policy of the hotel, you can’t access any level of the hotel. You go only to your room, card number will - and the same level. You can’t get access to other levels in the hotel.
Q. Now, when you called him on that second occasion, did--
A. He called me second occasion.
Q. So he called you?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you be mistaken about him calling you on the second occasion? Is it possible that you were waiting at the lift and you called RE to collect you from the lift to let him know that you were there?
A. That’s when I called him. That’s third call. First call, he didn’t answer. Second call, he came back to me. Third call, while I’m standing in front of elevator just to ask him to press the button to get me down.
Q. Did you make that third call?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he answer, RE answer?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you able to recall how long it took him to answer that call?
A. Straight away.
Q. After that, is it the case that he came down and allowed you access to the elevator to go up to the room?
A. I came down and when I called him third time, I was in front of elevator, press the button and he must be in front of the second floor elevator to press the button at the same time because if he didn’t, I will get down straight to the first floor, which is the reception. That’s why I called him. I told him, “RE, I am pressing the button of the elevator. You must press it now”.
Q. Does that refresh your memory about whether you told the police about RE saying on that phone call that he’d been sleeping, and that was the reason he didn’t answer the call?
A. Maybe I didn’t say it.
Q. In paragraph 14 though, you give an account of the phone call and what RE said; is that right?
A. As I remembered on the time.
Q. On that day?
A. Yeah.
Q. Certainly, when you read that account to the police that you gave, you don’t mention it there, do you?
A. No, I didn’t mention it.
Q. Certainly, your recollection of the details of what was said on that phone call would have been much better on 2 May 2021 then it is here today; would you agree with that?
A. Actually, when I get back to my memory, after I finish my statement with Lisa, I start recollect all day exactly what happened, because I went to statement, I absolutely know nothing about what - what’s going on. All I know RE get arrested, and Detective Lisa called me and asked me for a statement. I don’t know statement about what, and know nothing, and whenshe start asking me, based on my memory and collection of this phone call, I said it. But when I get back home, I start collect - after I heard all the story, start collect all the details about the whole week, yep.
Q. What do you mean by “after you heard all of the story”?
A. After I know from Detective Lisa and RE - she’s in big problem, because something happened there with MG, and she start asking me, I was in a shock, and I wasn’t collecting all the details about what’s been happening all day, and the rest of the holiday. When I get back to my - my home, and sit with my missus, and we start to collect together what’s been happening from first day in the trip to the end day of the trip. That’s why maybe I didn’t mention in the first statement, but that’s what - what did happened.
Q. Are you able to explain how sitting down with your wife and discussing every little--
A. After I get back from—
…
Q. How is it that you came to recall that extra detail about what RE said in the phone call, and that what I’m talking about is RE saying he was asleep and that’s why he didn’t answer the phone. How is it that you came to remember that detail after you gave your statement?
A. I remember that when I get back to home and I start to recollect the – the actual words in a conversation between us, and I collect that.
Q. You were certainly doing your best to recall the actual words that were said in that conversation--
A. Yeah, what’s been--
Q. --when you gave your statement to the police; is that right?
A. Yep.
Q. So how were you better placed to do it after you got home?
A. When - when I start remember what’s been happening on that day, I start collecting the actual conversation between us.
…
Q. You accept that your recollection of the phone call, and what would have been said in the phone call by RE, was fresher on 2 May 2021 than now?
A. Yep.
Q. Is it possible that you’re mistaken when you say that RE said he was sleeping, when you say that now in your evidence?
A. No, because it makes sense for me. He never didn’t answer. If he - if he’s awake, he answer me, or - or at least anybody else answer the phone and give it to him if the phone away from his hand.
Q. Mr Guirguis, you said, “No, because it makes sense to me.”
A. Makes sense to me, if he didn’t answer, he’s sleeping, and he - and he told me, “I was sleeping, and GE wake me up” on the phone.
Q. When you say, “Because it makes sense to me,” is that something that you’ve thought about, and it makes sense, or is it a clear recollection that you have of him saying that to you?
A. Clear recollection, and - clear recollection, he told me, “GE wake me up.” I didn’t say it in part 14, but this from recollection from the actual conversation between us.
Q. Since this happened in January, until now, have you had an opportunity to discuss, with RE, his side of the story at all?
A. I asked him, but I think he didn’t talk much about it.
Q. Are you aware that his defence in this case is that he was asleep at the time?
A. His what?
Q. Are you aware that his defence in this case is that he was sleeping at the time this is supposed to have happened?
A. No.
Q. You’re not aware of that?
A. I’m not aware about anything in the case, except what I know from Detective Lisa, and what I heard from community, and what I heard from Mr RE’s relatives.
Q. And what you heard from, sorry, who?
A. Mr RE’s relatives.
…
Q. What did you know from Mr RE’s relatives about the case?
A. From Mr RE direct?
Q. From his relatives, about the case.
A. There is a sexual assault, or something like that. That’s the case. That’s the - the - the main point in the case, MG accusing RE by - by doing something with her in his room. That’s all I know about the case.
In cross-examination Mr Guirguis agreed that it was a common occurrence for the accused to nap in the afternoon before he went out. Mr Guirguis gave evidence that during his mother’s funeral, the accused fell asleep and that he has seen the accused sleeping in public places, at restaurants, in social or private locations, while sitting at a table, on a chair or a couch, and sometimes sleeping through appointments.
Mr Guirguis was asked about his phone call with the accused on 22 January 2021 as follows:-
Q. Arrangements were made for him to come and get you to take you to the room?
A. Yep.
Q. The situation was when he got there, he had to knock on the door because he’d forgotten to take his card with him. Is that right?
A. Yes, correct.
Q. And the door was opened by MG?
A. MG, yep.
Q. You stayed there for a period of time and then another couple arrived?
A. Yes.
Q. That was Atef and Sanaa?
A. And Sanaa, yes, correct.
Q. Then you were there for a little while and then you all left and went down to this club next door?
A. Not all left. I left, me and my missus, and Sanaa and Mr Atef and RE and GE and I recall NG, Mrs G, and MG went up the stairs because when MG opened the door and I went there, I wasn’t expecting NG and MG and--
Q. All right. So they went back up to, as you understand it, their room and the rest of the people that you’ve named went downstairs to the club?
A. Yep.
Q. And they joined you later?
A. Yes.
RG is the complainant’s father and married to NG. He gave evidence that he has three children and the youngest was MG.
The witness gave evidence that he met the accused in about 2007-2010 and that as of January 2021 he was “very close” to the accused and described him as “my best friend”.
RG gave evidence that he and his family went on a holiday together at Ettalong Beach in January 2021 and that on Friday, 22 January 2021 they went to the beach and later came together and had dinner as a big group in the restaurant. He gave the following evidence:-
Q. After dinner, was there arrangement made for the families to go back to their individual rooms, and then meet up later to go out?
A. WITNESS: As usual, after we finish the dinner, we go back, have a shower, and we organise, through the phone, where we meet, and what we have to do.
Q. Is that what happened on 22 January?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. You’re aware that NG and MG went to RE and GE’s room that evening?
A. WITNESS: She had a shower first, before me, and NG got call from GE, and she asked her to come to her room, just to stay together, and have a tea, coffee, something like that, and I tell her, “After I have a shower, I catch up with you guys.”
Q. As far as you were aware, your wife, NG, and your daughter, MG, left to go to GE’s room that evening?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Q. Sometime later that evening, somebody called you, and you met a group of people at the front of the hotel. Is that right?
A. WITNESS: Yes, exactly, yeah.
Q. That group included GE, who is the wife of RE. Is that right?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Q. RE?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Sameh?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Also a few other people, and it also included NG and MG. Is that right?
A. WITNESS: Yes, yes.
Q. You all went out together that evening?
A. WITNESS: No, we go to the club next door, actually. Same building, but the club in the - next door.
Q. How did you observe RE that evening? How was he?
A. WITNESS: He was all right, he was normal.
Q. “Normal”?
A. WITNESS: Normal.
Q. On the Saturday after you got back, NG told you that something had happened between RE and MG. Is that right?
A. WITNESS: Actually, on Saturday, we have lunch with RE, as well as GE, and when we come back, XG come and ask NG to have a chat with her in her room, and she tell her what’s happened, exactly, and that’s what’s happened on that day.
Q. Then NG spoke to you after she spoke to XG. Is that right?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, yeah, and she tell me, yeah.
Q. Have you ever spoken to MG directly about what happened between her and RE?
A. WITNESS: No, I don’t know, I know.
RG gave evidence that on 2 February 2021, he received a text message from the accused in Arabic and he did not reply to the message.
The witness gave evidence that he spoke to one of the priests at his church because he was “very” angry and ultimately reported the matter to the police.
RG gave evidence that he did not have any other contact, including phone calls or text messages with the accused after he became aware about what MG said happened.
There was no cross-examination.
Mr Jalady gave evidence that as at January 2021, he was in a relationship with the complainant’s sister, XG and met the complainant in around June 2020. He was not present on the holiday at Ettalong Beach in January 2021.
The witness gave evidence that shortly after 9:00 p.m. on 22 January 2021, he received a text message on Instagram from DM, who was dating the complainant. He gave the following evidence:-
Q.DM, at that time that evening, told you about a messaging exchange that he had had with MG. Is that right?
A. That’s correct, yeah.
Q. That related to Uncle RE touching MG inappropriately. Is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. In fact, DM sent you some screenshots of some of that exchange he had with MG?
A. Between MG and DM, yes.
Q. As part of those screenshots that were sent to you by DM on the evening of 22 January 2021, he sent you a photo. Is that right?
A. That’s correct, that MG sent DM.
Q. That MG sent to him?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it the case that DM also told you that MG didn’t want XG to know about what had happened?
A. She didn’t want anyone to know about it.
Q. Did you tell XG or not at that time?
A. Not at the time because I wanted to talk to MG first cause I didn’t - initially, I thought he was exaggerating the situation before I said anything. Then I was kind of in shock about what was being said. So I needed to verify with MG.
A. Yeah. I met up with XG to ask where MG was and I want to talk to MG before I said anything, and then I had a conversation with MG directly on the phone. Even though it was off XG’s phone, XG wasn’t part of that initial phone call. But I had a conversation with her outside the car to get the full story about what happened. Then I came back and told XG about what’s going on.
Q. So you say that, first of all, XG was on holiday. She had come back to-
A. That’s right.
Q. --where you were for a wedding shortly before this. Is that right?
A. That’s right. She was coming back from Ettalong and she arrived there. So by the time she arrived, I said, “I just really need to talk to you just to find out what’s happening. I need to talk to MG primarily, so can we meet up”. We met up that night and then I had a phone call with MG.
Q. So you first had a phone call with MG?
A. Yes, off XG’s phone.
…
Q. In that phone call you had with MG, you said to MG, “DM told me what happened. What happened?”
A. Yeah, that’s correct.
Q. MG said, “What do you mean what happened? I don’t know what else to say”.
A. Because everything was said to DM and she just didn’t want to repeat the story.
Q. Then you said, “You tell me what happened because I want to know what actually happened”?
A. Yes.
Q. Then MG said this to you: “I was sitting in the room with mum and GE and Uncle RE was in the room. I was feeling cold because the air conditioner was on. I was on my phone talking to DM and that is when Uncle RE started touching me. Initially, he was just massaging my leg and then he started to squeeze a lot harder. He then started to touch me there”. Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You said, “Keep going”, and MG said, “Then he started to go around my shorts”. MG also said, “In that time, Uncle RE got a phone call, and he got up to get it”; is that right?
A. That’s right.
Q. She said, “I went to the bathroom and I took a photo of Uncle RE and sent it to DM”, and she said, “When I came out of the bathroom, I went and sat on the chair, and asked mum to turn down the air-conditioner because it was getting too cold. Mum told me to just go back and lay back down next to Uncle RE”; is that right?
A. That’s correct.
Q. She told you that she went back and lay back down next to Uncle RE?
A. That’s right.
Q. You said to her, “How were you messaging DM all this time, how did you take the photo”?
A. That’s right.
Q. She said, “He can’t see me because he was looking in the other direction. This time he went in - in”?
A. Yeah.
Q. You said, “In your shorts”?
A. Yeah.
Q. MG said, “No”. What tone of voice did MG say that in?
A. That it - it changed when she said, “In”, and then I said, “You mean in your shorts”, and it was very, like, tone became a lot more silent-ish when she said “No, in”. Almost like she was about to start, you know, getting frustrated about the situation, like she - I - needs to specify. But eventually she did, because I asked.
Q. I’m sorry?
A. Eventually I did ask what - “What do you mean, in?”, and then she did specify.
Q. What did she specify?
A. That she went - that he penetrated.
Q. Can you remember what words she said?
A. I would not be able to say verbatim, but she definitely did specify that “He went in, inside me”.
Q. You told her that you had to tell XG; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. MG tell you some more details at that time about what had happened?
A. Yeah.
Q. MG said, “I don’t know, I was wearing the tight shorts too”; is that right?
A. That’s right.
Q. And you said, “Yeah, how did he even get in”?
A. Yeah.
Q. And MG said, “It is through the side of my shorts, through here”?
A. Yes.
Q. What indication did she make at that time?
A. Well, she made a gesture through here.
Q. In any event, you later provided some of the screenshots that DM provided to you to the police on 10 February 2021; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You gave a statement to the police on 15 February 2021?
A. Yes.
Q. In the course of the statement that you made to police, did you recount this part of it. Did you say to MG, “How were you messaging DM all of this? How did you take the photo?”, and did she say, “He can’t see me because he was looking in the other direction. This time, he went in in”. Is that right?
A. Yeah, so he wasn’t looking in the direction and yes.
The complainant’s sister, XG gave evidence in the first trial which became Exhibit Q. She gave evidence that her family was close to the accused’s family and that they would go on holidays together, and in Janaury 2021 went on a holiday to Ettalong with them. The holiday was between 20 and 26 Janaury 2021, however she left on 22 January to attend a wedding and returned on 24 January. On the night of 22 January 2021, she received a text message from her boyfriend, Preetham Jalady asking her to call him. She gave evidence that Preetham subsequently told her that evening that the accused had sexually assaulted the complainant. He had found that out through messages he had received from DM, who was the complainant’s boyfriend at the time.
XG gave evidence that she did not have any conversation with the complainant about what happened when she returned to the holiday on 24 January because “it was never the right time or chance”. She gave further evidence that she spoke to the complainant when they returned home, and she asked her what happened. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. MG said,
“I was cold and I asked mum to turn down the air conditioning and mum said, ‘Don’t worry about it’, and said to get under the covers. I got under the covers and it started. He got up to take a phone call. Then he came back. When he came back, I was messaging DM and he was telling me to get out of the bed. Eventually, I went into the bathroom and washed my hands and got into the chair with a blanket and asked mum to turn down the air conditioning.”
A.That’s correct.
Q. Is that what MG told you?
A.Yep.
The witness gave further evidence that she told the complainant that she was going to have to tell their mother and that in fact she told their mother, NG what had happened to MG on 30 January 2021. She gave evidence that ultimately a decision was made to go to the police station, and she reported the matter on 4 February 2021. Before doing so, her father had showed a text message he had received from the accused in Arabic which she translated for the police.
There was no cross-examination.
A. WITNESS: Sometimes while he’s sleeping, he’s dream sexual things. Because I don’t have, like experience in marriage before so he’s the only one, so I don’t know what’s going on, like I thought it’s like normal if he doing that while he’s on the bed.
When asked what sort of sexual things the accused did in his sleep, GE said he would touch different parts of her body with his hands including having “actual sex”. She first noticed this around 15 years into her marriage and it happened probably every month.
GE described the accused as a very heavy sleeper. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. Can you explain what led you to conclude he’s a heavy sleeper?
A. WITNESS: His, when he put his head on the pillow he got sleep straight away.
Q. Did you ever have to try and wake him up?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, of course.
Q. What did you do to try and wake him up?
A. WITNESS: Sometimes saying his name or sometimes I’m shaking him or yeah.
Q. Did you--
A. WITNESS: Say it loud, yeah, sometimes.
Q. You’ve talked about him being asleep. Could you say anything about him falling asleep?
A. WITNESS: The same thing like what do you mean?
Q. You already said he’d fall asleep as soon as his head hit the pillow?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Can you say anything about other times he’d fall asleep?
A. WITNESS: What do you mean by “other time”?
Q. Did he sleep anywhere apart from a bed?
A. WITNESS: Yeah. He can sleep anywhere.
Q. Where would he sleep?
A. WITNESS: Sometimes on chair, couch, sometimes on the car while someone is driving.
Exhibit D was a bundle of ten photographs showing occasions on which the accused had fallen asleep sitting up in various locations.
The witness gave evidence that the accused also snored when sleeping on his back but not when sleeping on his side. Exhibit E was a video taken of the accused sleeping dated 7 November 2018, during which he was shown to be snoring.
GE gave further evidence that when he was asleep, the accused would touch her on her hand, leg, chest and also on her vagina. Sometimes she was awake when this occurred but sometimes, she was sleeping as well. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. Was the accused awake or asleep when that was happening?
A. WITNESS: At the time, I don’t know to recall it, but after that I found him like different situation happen, so I start to recognise, “This is maybe he’s sleeping or he’s awake.” Cause he - it’s different.
Q. What was different?
A. WITNESS: Like while he’s doing that, after I lie back, that he’s not talking to me after that - this, and he is start to sleep straight away. He’s not responding to me, and next day even when I ask him, he not remember anything.
Q. I just want to be very clear about what’s different on different occasions. What made you think the accused was sleep when things like this was happening?
A. WITNESS: He was asleep, yep.
Q. How do you know that?
A. WITNESS: Because, as I said, next day when I ask him, he not respond, he not remember anything and even on the day, he start sleeping straight away. He - yeah, no respond. When I talk to him, he’s not responding.
Q. Is there any difference in his actions during the sexual activity?
A. WITNESS: Sorry?
Q. Is there any difference in the sexual activity depending like while it’s actually happening, depending whether he’s awake or asleep?
A. WITNESS: Yes. When he’s awake, like we talk after or we can chat or he go to have a shower or something. But as I said, while, while he’s sleeping, he’s not responding after that.
Q. Does he ever say anything during sexual activity?
A. WITNESS: No. Not much, no.
Q. Is that the same or different whether he’s awake or asleep?
A. No, he’s awake he - we can like say some things.
Q. Did you do anything because you were worried?
A. WITNESS: I didn’t talk about this matter with him.
Q. Did you do anything else?
A. WITNESS: No. Of course, also I get cautious of this to anyone can sleep next to us or specially my daughter of course because we live in - it’s a private like our room is not normally anyone can go there, of course. Only me and my husband. But yeah, I’m always aware about this, that no-one can go there or sleep next to him.
Q. Sorry, you’re aware that no-one can go there or sleep next to him?
A. WITNESS: Yeah.
Q. Is that something you paid attention to?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
GE gave evidence that she became alert about anyone sleeping next to the accused.
The witness gave evidence about an incident concerning her daughter:-
Q. Do you remember any occasion, any time after this started to happen, the sexual behaviour started to happen - do you remember anytime someone slept next to the accused?
A. WITNESS: Yeah. I heard about my daughter. I didn’t know about this before but she told us after - that “Once I, I did sleep next to dad but I” - when he touch her, she wake him up and tells him, “It’s me, SI.”
Q. Did your daughter SI tell you that herself?
A. WITNESS: Yes, after the incident.
GE gave evidence that she took no steps to find out what might be going on with the accused because she had never had any relationship with anyone else. She gave evidence that she knew the G family and had gone on 5 or 6 holidays with them over the years. In January 2021 both families went to stay at Ettalong together with the L family and EG and SG. She described their hotel room as identified in Exhibit F, which was 4 photographs of the room showing the bed and sofa bed.
GE gave evidence about the occasion on 22 February 2021 when NG and MG came to their room. The accused was sleeping in the queen bed facing the sofa bed. He was lying on his left side on the edge of the bed. She and NG were seated on the sofa bed and the complainant was sitting on a chair. She gave evidence that the accused was asleep and that he said nothing to NG or the complainant when they entered the room.
GE gave evidence that she could not recall how the complainant got from the chair onto the bed on which the accused was sleeping, nor did she know why she got in the bed. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. Do you know when you say “got into the bed” was she above or under the covers or something else?
A. WITNESS: She was lying, she was sitting on the bed but with no cover, no.
Q. Was she on top of the covers or were the covers moved or something else?
A. WITNESS: The cover wasn’t in her side, like my husband took the cover on his side.
Q. Was your husband above or under the covers or something else?
A. WITNESS: Under the cover, yeah.
Q. Do you remember what MG was wearing?
A. WITNESS: Only the T-shirt and shorts.
Q. T-shirt and shorts?
A. WITNESS: Yeah.
Q. Do you remember anything else about her clothes?
A. WITNESS: No.
Q. Do you remember if MG remained uncovered or did she go under the covers at sometime?
A. WITNESS: No, I cannot recall she’s went under the cover.
Q. You said MG was typing on her phone?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Whereabouts was the phone?
A. WITNESS: I believe in the sofa bed, next to the sofa bed, on the table maybe. On the table next to the sofa bed.
Q. When it started ringing, how long did it ring for before you said anything to RE?
A. WITNESS: Like when it’s beeped twice, I start saying, “RE, RE, your phone is ringing.”
Q. Did he respond in any way?
A. WITNESS: He - yeah, he - after I, I wake him hard, like he went and got his phone.
Q. Can you explain to us what you mean by, “wake him hard”?
A. WITNESS: Saying my loud voice.
Q. Saying your loud voice?
A. WITNESS: Yeah.
Q. Was “RE, answer your phone”, all of the words you used, or did you say anything else?
A. WITNESS: No. At first I said it as I said, quiet, but he didn’t answer. So I said it twice after that, “RE, RE, your phone is ringing.” Want me to loud my voice like what happened?
When asked whether the accused had answered the phone when Mr Guirguis called or whether he called Mr Guirguis, the witness could not recall. She gave evidence however that when the accused spoke to Mr Guirguis, the complainant was on the bed.
The witness then gave the following evidence:-
Q. What happened after the phone call?
A. WITNESS: He stayed with us, me and NG on the sofa bed, on the edge of the sofa bed, and we start chatting little bit and then he went to get Emad and Samah, yeah.
Mrs GE gave further evidence that at the time the accused had an injury to both shoulders for which he was taking Tramadol and pain killers. After Mr and Mrs Guirguis came to the room, they chatted a little bit and then all went out.
The witness gave evidence that sometime later she spoke to NG who told her that something happened. She then spoke to the accused about what she had been told and gave the following evidence:-
Q. I just want to stick with what you said to RE and what RE said to you, not NG.
A. WITNESS: Okay. With RE, yeah, I told him, “NG was saying something very strange to us.” And yeah, it’s - what happened, like, “You touch her daughter and stuff.” He got very surprised of this and said, “How?” Like, “It’s never going to happen.” Yeah, and I told him to send the message to explain that he never can do something like that and he sent the message.
Q. What did the message say?
A. WITNESS: I told her, “Ask MG, he was sleeping at that time. Are you sure?” Like I wasn’t like aware of what’s going on, like I know if they are on the, the room and RE sleeping, this - nothing can, can happen. Like I, I told her, “While he’s sleeping, it never can happen like this.”
Q. Just to be clear, were you worried that RE might touch MG?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Worried that RE might touch MG in a sexual way?
A. WITNESS: Not really, no, just - touch. I don’t know how he going to be.
Q. You’ve told us about how you were alert--
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. --about anybody being next to the accused RE while he was asleep?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. And that’s as I understand and correct me if I’m wrong, that’s because you were concerned that RE might touch the person sexually. Is that right?
A. WITNESS: Yeah. Yes.
Q. Were you concerned on this occasion that RE might touch MG sexually when she got onto that bed?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, but if I was looking there all the time so it wasn’t concern me that much cause I was alert of this matter like--
A. INTERPRETER: Look, I wasn’t too concerned because like, I was watching them.
Q. You were watching RE carefully?
A. WITNESS: Yes, and MG.
Q. And MG?
A. WITNESS: Yeah.
Q. Did you look at NG at all when you were talking to her?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, I was looking all the time.
Q. I asked you earlier about how you knew that RE was asleep?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, he was asleep.
Q. You told us his eyes were closed?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Was there anything else that told you he was asleep?
A. WITNESS: He not talking and he closing his eyes, yeah. He not responding to anything even when the phone call he didn’t respond so.
Q. Just from his eyes being closed and not talking you can’t be sure he was asleep, can you?
A. WITNESS: He has a deep sleep. When he puts his head on the bed so he immediate go to sleep. He’s very quick at sleep.
Q. So you assumed he was asleep?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Why didn’t you stop MG from going onto the bed?
A. WITNESS: Because her mum told her that to go to the bed and it’s our culture it’s not polite or not nice to go over the mum talking like when she says something to her daughter or something it’s not nice. This first thing. Second because MG was, I was looking at them at the time most of the time like I’m looking to them, and she was sitting and she’s awake, and me and NG was there as well so it’s not 100% concern me, like it’s because I’m watching.
Q. So you couldn’t see what RE was doing with his hand?
A. WITNESS: Nothing. There is no movement.
Q. You couldn’t see what RE was doing with any part of his body, could you?
A. WITNESS: No, he was lying, laying, no, no movement, no.
Q. And you couldn’t be certain that he was asleep, could you?
A. WITNESS: He was asleep.
It was put to the witness that the accused did not answer the phone the first time Mr Guirguis called but she adhered to her evidence that he did answer the phone. After the phone call she adhered to her evidence that the accused sat on the edge of the sofa bed and stayed there and after awhile he went down to get Emad and Samah Guirguis onto their level of the hotel. She denied that he went back to bed and got under the covers.
It was put to GE that she didn’t want to see the accused get into trouble and was doing her best to try and help him in her evidence, both of which propositions she denied. She further denied that she as trying to protect the accused.
In cross-examination, GE gave evidence that there were occasions during her marriage when she was aware of the accused urinating at night while he was asleep. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. Do you recall him ever urinating at night while he was asleep?
A. WITNESS: Sorry?
Q. Do you recall him going to the toilet at night while he was asleep?
A. WITNESS: Yeah, yes.
Q. How did you become aware of that?
A. WITNESS: He didn’t turn on the light, he make a mess on the toilet, like it’s not like if he’s awake and do this.
She also became aware that he would eat food in the kitchen while he was asleep at night and would not remember doing it the next day. She gave further evidence that she could hear him grinding his teeth while he was sleeping and described his face as having clenched teeth. She also heard him speaking in his sleep lots of times but could not understand what he was saying. She gave evidence that all of these behaviours started about 15 years into her marriage and were still happening up to around January 2021.
The witness confirmed that she was aware that the complainant would be asleep whilst they were having sex because he would not respond to her and would fall asleep straight afterwards. She confirmed that he would not remember these instances the next day and it was different from having sexual intercourse with him when he was awake.
The witness gave evidence that she only became aware that this issue with her husband was actually a medical condition after the incident as her husband was the only sexual partner she had ever had. Similarly, she was the accused’s only sexual partner, and she was aware that he only learnt about it being a medical condition after he was charged.
She was asked why she wouldn’t stop the complainant from going onto the bed with the accused because she found the issue embarrassing. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. Why did you find it embarrassing?
A. WITNESS: Simply to go over the mum, what she’s saying to her daughter first of all, and that’s why I was looking and watching them.
Q. Had you ever discussed this issue of RE having sexual contact with you in his sleep with any of your friends before?
A. WITNESS: No, never.
Q. Would it have been uncomfortable for you to have that conversation with someone--
A. WITNESS: Yep.
Q. In the hotel room, you’ve given some evidence that you were sitting on the side of the sofa bed that was closest to the balcony, is that right?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. I think you told my friend that you were sitting up?
A. WITNESS: Yeah.
Q. What was your back against?
A. WITNESS: I was on the side, like not straight back head, like laying on my right side more.
Q. Were you against the bedhead or propped up on some pillows, or something?
A. WITNESS: No.
Q. You said you could see over or across NG?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Then you could see RE?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. You could see MG on the other side of RE?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. When you think about being able to see RE, could you see that he was lying on his left-hand side?
A. WITNESS: Yep.
Q. That means that you would’ve been able to see his shoulder, his right shoulder?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. But it was obscured by the blanket that was on top of him?
A. WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Do you remember being able to see his arm or his hand, or anything?
A. WITNESS: It was under the cover.
Q. Also under the cover?
A. WITNESS: Yep.
Q. In the time that you were looking across in the general direction of NG, RE and MG, did you ever see anything that looked like his right arm moving around under the blanket?
A. WITNESS: I didn’t see any movement, yep.
The witness was shown Exhibit B, the photo of the accused sitting on the foot of the sofa bed. She confirmed that photo was taken when the accused was sitting on the sofa bed talking to her and NG. She gave further evidence that it was common on these family holidays for people to be lying on beds on the hotel rooms and identified such occasions in 4 photographs which became Exhibit 1.
There was no re-examination.
SI is the daughter of the accused. She gave evidence that she was aware that her father was charged with an allegation of sexual touching and sexual intercourse with a child between the ages of 10 and 16.
The witness gave evidence that after the allegation was made, she recalled an incident that occurred with her father in 2014 or 2015 as follows:-
Q. And whereabouts did it occur?
A. So I was living with my parents in Woodcroft house, it was, yep.
Q. And were you at home on that day?
A. Yes.
Q. And what were you doing?
A. I was trying to sleep in my room, it was very hot, and - and, yeah, I - I got up and went over to my parents’ bedroom, and my dad was sleeping in there and it was dark, and - yep, sorry.
Q. Just pause there for a moment.
A. Yep.
Q. Was it hot in your room?
A. Yep, very hot.
Q. Did your room have air conditioning?
A. No, it didn’t.
Q. Were you aware that your parents’ room did have air conditioning?
A. Yes.
Q. You then went into that room?
A. Yes.
Q. What happened next?
A. So I got into the bed on my - on my - a - like, on my side, and it was my right side facing away from my dad. And yeah, it was really dark. The air conditioning was on. My dad was already asleep, he was snoring. And should I continue, or?
Q. Yeah.
A. Yep. And then he - he touched my arm near my shoulder, and as soon as that happened I just said, “Dad, it’s me,” and then he stopped. And that was that.
Q. When you say “he stopped”, what did he do?
A. He just retracted his hand, yeah.
Q. And did he then continue to sleep, as far as you could tell?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Could you hear him snoring?
A. Yes, I could hear him snoring.
Q. And did you then fall off to sleep yourself?
A. Yeah, I did.
Q. Do you recall if you ever said anything to your dad about it?
A. Not specifically. It was a very trivial situation. But I might have; I might not have. I’m not sure 100%.
Q. After your father was arrested, do you think that you might have mentioned it to your mother?
A. Yes. After the arrest, but before dad was released from bail, I did mention it to my mum. Yeah, I just told her about the situation and, yeah, that was that.
Q. I think after he was arrested things were somewhat of a blur, so you’re not completely concise about that--
A. Yeah. Yes, yes, it was a - definitely, I - I couldn’t tell you if it happened in the first week, second week or third week, but my dad was arrested and was only released on bail three weeks later. Yeah.
Q. And you also were told about episodes of sleepwalking.
A. Yeah, I’ve had a whole host of sleeping situations. I have snored, I have slept-walked, according to my husband anyway, I have laughed in the middle of my sleep, and there was an incident actually about two years ago where I was in hospital, I had just done surgery, and I had a cannula in my hand, and in my sleep I must have pulled it out because I woke up to seeing blood all over the pillow. Yeah, I’ve had - the whole reason I got the surgery was because I was diagnosed with sleep apnoea, and I woke up one night feeling like I was drowning and couldn’t breathe, so, yeah, I’ve had a whole host of sleeping issues.
Q. The surgery that you spoke about--
A. Yep.
Q. --was surgery to help you lose weight.
A. Yes, that’s right.
Q. And I think at some stage, you went with your father to see about doing a sleep study.
A. Yeah, that’s correct.
Q. But you ultimately didn’t do that.
A. Yes, I was - the - just based off the assessment, the doctor said I had sleep apnoea, but I didn’t continue and do the sleep study itself, yep.
Q. And I think as a result of you having that surgery and losing some weight, that’s helped resolve the issues.
A. Yeah, I haven’t snored, which my husband is very happy about, I haven’t walked or talked. It’s usually also very much triggered by being in a - in a new environment, so whenever I sleep in somewhere that’s not my bed, that’s usually when it’s more likely to occur, that - yep.
In cross-examination SI confirmed that during that incident the accused was sleeping on his back.
SI gave evidence that during 2008 to 2015, she “might have” slept next to the accused. She was questioned as follows:-
Q. Did you ever see them sleeping in your dad’s bed when they were young?
A. Not really, no. We didn’t - we always had separate rooms. It wasn’t - there was no reason to.
Q. Did you ever have any discussions with your mum about not sleeping next to your dad when he was asleep when you were younger, that you can recall?
A. No, not specifically.
Detective Sergeant Lisa Bombardiere was the officer-in-charge and compiled the brief of evidence. Her evidence from the previous trial became Exhibit T. She gave evidence that she was no longer with the police force and had interviewed the accused on 16 February 2021. She identified the sketch plan of the room drawn by the accused during the interview (Exhibit A) and the photograph identified by the accused and signed by him during the interview (Exhibit B). She also identified a download from the complainant’s Instagram account showing messages that she sent on 22 January 2021. That document was marked for identification as MFI 12 which was subsequently replaced by the Crown in a document marked for identification as MFI 13.
In cross-examination the witness identified further Instagram messages between the complainant and her then boyfriend, DM on 22 January 2021 which preceded the messages in Annexure A to Exhibit H. Those messages became Exhibit 2.
On 16 February 2021, the accused underwent an electronically recorded interview (“ERISP”) with Detective Sergeant Lisa Bombardiere and Detective Senior Constable Hill. The video of the interview became Exhibit C, and the transcript was marked for identification (MFI 6). The accused told police that he had first come to Australia in May 1995, that he returned to Egypt in 2002 and then came back to Australia in November 2007 with his family.
The nature of the allegation was first put to the accused at Q44 of the transcript:-
Q44 Yep. OK. So as I said, um, previously, we’re investigating alleged sexual offences committed upon MG on 22nd of January, 2021, at the Ettalong Mantra Hotel. What can you tell me about that?
A I didn’t know that she was MG. I, I was sleeping, and giving my back to, to that side, where she came and, and stayed. And then, uh, I was, um, I thought she was my wife. Uh, because when they accused me of doing that, uh, her mum called my wife, and I couldn’t recall anything, because that was, uh, my understand, you know. And then she, she re, my, my wife reminded me, she told me that, When you were sleeping, giving your back to the entry door of the room. And my wife and her mum was sitting in front of me in the lounge, uh, in that room.
A Uh, I didn’t take any cortisone insh, injections, um, like, like, lately. So the doctor wrote me a, a painkiller, uh, ss, very strong one. And, um, I was aslee, oh, I was asleep nearly, you know. And when she came behind me, uh, MG, I didn’t realise she’s MG. I was asleep, and then, um, this medicine make you horny. So I, I, I think because she, I can’t recall the, what happened, because in my brain it was my wife, or if this happens, she, she, she’s my wife, she’s not anyone else. Um, the other thing, sh, MG, eh, and her family are very close friends to us, you know. Um, and, and we have many, many trips, journey lately. Like, uh, ba, we’ve been in Wollongong in, uh, in winter, we been in, uh, Narrabeen in April. We, I never, ever had anything with to do with MG.
Q47 Uh-huh.
A And my job as a teacher is just, um, oh, we know exactly what, what’s meant by child abuse, you know. And we, we get the child protection, um, uh, from the police. And, and we make sure that, um, our children, uh, stay safe. So, yeah. This is all what I say about this incident. Because at the beginning, I couldn’t recall that something happened. I sent a message to her dad when, when his wife called my wife.
Q48 Uh-huh.
A Because my wife was very upset. Uh, I sent him a message abo, um, um, denying, because for me, um, I didn’t do anything. And then, um, my wife said, Uh, and, and I know the, the nature of, um, young teenagers, with they, in, they not gunna lie about something like that. So my wife just told me she, She’s accusing you when you were at that, um, on the bed, and we were there. So I started, I remembered the, the situation. But she the one came behind me. I didn’t go chasing her, or something. And I didn’t know that she, it was MG. I was asleep, and then if this happened, so it happened on the basis that my wife is sleeping next to me, not her.
Q49 OK. So what do you recall happening?
A Oh, I recall that I was asleep. And, um, before I got deep into my sleep, it was her, her mum NG, and my wife sitting on the, on the lounge, or the dining in that, uh, hotel room. And MG came, um, around, because I was, the, the bed was like that, I was giving my back to facing my wife.
Q240 [08:36] OK. So you described that you and your wife were in the room, and then, um, NG and MG came to the room. Is that - - -
A No. I can’t recall who came - - -
Q241 OK.
A- - - to the room. All, all what I know that NG and my wife were sitting.
Q242 Uh-huh.
A And MG was sitting with them at one point, I can’t, I don’t know. And then I was half asleep, and then I recall MG came and ss, slept here. And then I went to, uh, deep in, in sleep.
Q243 So how did they, like, you described before that you don’t have access to the other floors.
A Yeah.
Q244 How did they get to your floor that night, do you remember?
A I reckon the way, if we wanted to go to a different, uh, storey, we need to go down to the reception, and someone from, so say they’re coming to our room, so they go down to the reception, and then my wife go and get them up.
Q245 OK. And do you remember them coming into the room that night?
A Nuh.
The accused told police that he was lying on his left hand side under the bed covers which was covering his shoulder. He did not remember whether the TV was on.
The accused told police he did not remember MG coming into the bed. He did remember his wife and NG chatting next to him and was asked as follows:-
Q276 OK. So you were facing - - -
A This is - - -
Q277 You were facing them.
A I was facing them. That’s why I remember what they were saying, and stuff. Like, they were chat, they were joke, and stuff. And sometimes I laugh at what they say, until I went to, to sleep.
Q278 OK. And how’d you know that MG was in the bed behind you?
A I did not, um, that MG’s, uh, they told me it, It was when you were sleeping, giving us your face. MG came behind you, and this is when it happened.
Q279 OK. So are you aware of that happening on that night, or is that something that somebody’s told you?
A No. They, no-one told me anything until we came back. I went back to school.
The accused told police that after they returned home, he tried to call MG’s father, but he did not respond. On an occasion when he came home, his wife told him about MG’s allegation. He said, “It was a surprise for me. It, it was a shock. So I sent a message to RG (the complainant’s father)”.
The accused told police that he told his wife that he didn’t remember that this happened. Police then asked as follows:-
Q283 Do you have any recollection of her being there, of being aware that night that she was there?
A Oh, that night, uh, she was in the room. She was sitting with them before she moved to, to come behind my back. But, uh, I can’t recall seeing her come and to, to sleep next to me. I can’t, I’m not quite sure honestly. Because that was a storytelling after it happened, you know. And I wasn’t, like, I was nearly asleep when they, when this kind of movements happened. But maybe I saw her come into my room, maybe not, um, uh, to, to, to sleep behind my back. But I recall definitely that they were sitting in front of me before I go to sleep.
Q284 OK. And why, why did MG get into the bed?
A No idea. But we very intimate, fre, friends, you know. Like, we’ve been very close for ages. And this is what upset me in the whole issue, you know. It’s, uh, it’s, I lost, I lost them as friends, you know.
But, uh, yeah. It’s normal, it’s nothing strange for MG to come and, and stay in the bed, even if I’m in the bed.
Q285 When has that happened any other times?
A On different trips maybe. Uh, when we went to Narrabeen. I can’t recall about, but it’s normal. Like, it’s not, we, like, she, if I’m sleeping, maybe her, my, my wife, and her mum is on the bed talking, and she comes and sleep, and, or, um, join, you know. It’s, it’s nothing weird about it for me, you know. But - - -
Q286 OK. Can you remember any other specific time that, that’s happened?
A She come to, she spent, she stayed nights over at our place, and she’s, she, but, no, I can’t recall the, like, a particular time when she came to, and, and slept. But that was, I didn’t feel, like, when GE told me that MG was sleeping behind you, you know, I didn’t, it wasn’t a surprise for me, it’s not, like, it’s, it’s normal.
Q287 OK. So when, like, you just mentioned about her staying nights at your place, where would she stay when she stayed nights at your place?
A She stays at my youngest’s, uh, room.
Q288 Yep. So not, not in your bed.
A No, no, no, no, no.
Yeah. So I say, One time 3 years ago, I was asleep and SI, uh, she was next to me. I thought, um, she is my wife GE and I, uh, put my hand on her. She said, Dad, I’m SI. Um, and then, I’m, I’m afraid that, that this might be the what happened with MG. And, uh, um, um, I can’t recall, uh, that this already happened. Um, I was nearly asleep, and under the affect of, uh, the Tramal, because of my shoulder. And you know that this, um, uh, painkiller is very strong too, and it, uh, makes, uh, me horny, um, and, uh, and affects your, um, uh, um, being alert. Um, especially I don’t use it, uh, unless it is, uh, ve, um, uh, no cortisone, and it is a very ba, bad pain. Uh, and I don’t use it that much because I know it’s addictive. Uh, you, and NG, and the kids are very close to me, and very dear to me. Uh, why, and then I’m saying, I’m sorry if I, if I was a reason why you, uh, why you hurt, uh, but I’m really sad, uh, because you’re sad. Uh, I didn’t, uh, want the, uh, our relationship to be, to reach that point. Uh, I didn’t go sleep next to MG, uh, or I didn’t chase her anywhere. Uh, she is the one who, um, came and slept, uh, behind me, uh, which means I didn’t, it was, there is no intention to, to, to do something to her. Uh, and I’m telling him that since yesterday I didn’t, I didn’t sleep because of this. Uh, and I argue, I urge him to, to believe me, because I have nothing, um, oh, like, um, nothing bu, except that to say, you know. Yeah. I said the whole - - -
Q401 And so how were you va, what was the situation that you were in a bedroom .....
A She, I was, I, I was asleep, and she was giving her back to me, so I just hugged her, and started to, to catch her, uh, her chest. And then ju, I didn’t go all the way, you know. It’s just, uh, once I started, said, Dad, I’m, I’m SI. And that’s it, you know. I, I thought she’s GE, because normally I wake up and GE is next to me.
Q403 What was the situation with SI being next to you?
A Uh, I don’t know why, why she came. But it happens, like, sometime she come and sleep next to me. But I can’t recall. I can’t recall what was the reason why she came and slept next to me.
Q407 She said you greeted them when they came into the room. You said, Hello, or whatever greeting you gave. Um, and then she sat down behind you. And you’ve reached over how we described before, you were still laying on your left-hand side, and you’ve reached over with your right hand, um, and you started tickling her leg - - -
A Mmm.
Q - - - um, before, um, rubbing her genitals from the outside of her pants.
A Mmm.
Q409 Um, anything you can tell me about that?
A (NO AUDIBLE REPLY)
Whilst there was no audible reply, the accused was observed to be shaking his head in denial of the allegation. The accused was then questioned at length about his intimate relationship with his wife.
The accused was asked about the phone call and told them that he could not recall the phone call or “the whole situation”. He was asked:-
Q460 [09:12] Do you recall seeing MG in the bed?
A Nuh.
Q497 So what do you think after reading - - -
A I think - - -
Q498 - - - all that?
A - - - the first part of the story is up to the photo, if this is what happened, is right. What the, the, the part after that is not right.
Q499 Why do you say the part before is right, the part - - -
A Because I can’t - - -
Q500 [09:25] - - - after is not right?
A - - - recall, I can’t recall, uh, doing this to MG in particular. And, uh, if there is a phone call and I woke up, definitely I didn’t do that after I went back to bed. So the first part when, before the phone call, it might be the case. But afterwards, I think she’s, uh, exaggerating.
Q504 OK. So you’re willing to accept that the first part happened, but the second part didn’t happen.
A The first part, uh, because I, I wasn’t aware, you know. Bu, but if there is a phone call in the middle, uh, and then I woke up, ha, get the phone call, and get back to bed, this means that I, I’m aware of, uh, of, uh, she’s in the bed, um, and I’m doing this to her. And for me, I wasn’t aware. So, so I reckon the part after the phone call is not right.
Q510[09:28] No. My question is if you’re so asleep that you don’t know who’s behind you, how do you know that there’s anyone behind you?
A Mmm. Maybe I turned around and I, I felt her. Um, when you sleep you don’t know what to, what exactly the kind of movement you’re doing. And if I just stretch my hand - - -
0511 Is that something that you normally do, stretch your hand all the way behind you?
A Sometimes, because of the pain. Not behind me, but, but sometimes I feel little, some pain, so I just go, uh, trying to move my hand in a way to re, get the pain little bit, little bit away.
Q512 So would that include stretching it right behind you?
A So, bit, um, I was asleep, but, but maybe, yes.
Q618 OK. Um, and is that a known side effect, the, um, increase in sexual drive, is that a known side effect of that medication?
A I’m not quite sure. It, possibly, because, yeah, most of the people I know they take, they, they say the same thing.
Q619 OK. Who, who do you know that takes that medication?
A A friend of mine in Egypt, and, um, um, his, um, and another friend in here, in Australia.
Q620 OK. And when you say about increasing your sex drive, what effect does that have on you, so is it - - -
A You become horny.
Dr Fernando is a consultant psychiatrist and sleep specialist, who has diagnosed and treated many patients with parasomnias including sexsomnia since 2001. The transcript of his evidence in the previous trial had been marked for identification as MFI 9, which became Exhibit U.
Dr Fernando was asked to consider whether the accused was likely to have suffered from sexsomnia, or any other parasomnia episode or episodes at the time of the commission of the alleged offence. In arriving at his opinion, he referred to a history taken from the accused’s wife and daughter, witness statements from NG and Emad Giurguis, together with interviews of the complainant. He also had regard to the accused’s ERISP interview and findings from the sleep physician’s report. Dr Fernando gave the following evidence about sexsomnia:-
Q. Dr Fernando, what is sexsomnia?
A. So, sexsomnia is a specific variant of what we call parasomnia, so I think it’s better to start with parasomnias, because most of us can understand that quickly. So, parasomnias are unusual behaviours that occur at night, and it’s actually quite common. So, sleep talking is a type of parasomnia, that’s the most common parasomnia.
Sleep walking is a parasomnia, so when people actually walk in the middle of their sleep, very common in children, and then children outgrow that, and then you have the more unusual types of parasomnias, including sleep related eating, when people actually get out of bed, eat. You have sleep driving, and then you have the very contentious category called sexsomnia, which is a specific type of parasomnia when patients are asleep, but behave sexually either towards others, or actually with themselves. So, it’s a specific variation of parasomnia.
Q. Are these sexsomnias and parasomnias recognised as medical conditions?
A. Yes, sir. Parasomnias are diagnosed using established medical criteria, so we have two general ways of diagnosing parasomnia in medicine. One is using the American Psychiatric Association guidelines for diagnosis, so we have a criteria. and then we also have the ICSD, which is the International Classification of Sleep Disorders. So, in - in medicine, to diagnose something like parasomnias, we have a criteria, or a checklist, to check to see if the condition actually is a medical condition or not, and it’s an established medical condition.
Q. In relation to sleep-related sexual behaviours--
A. Yes.
Q. --are they the same as sex behaviours that can occur when a person is awake?
A. Yes, so the types of activities that occur during sexsomnia are very much similar to sexual activities that occur while people are awake. The main difference, of course, because it’s a sexsomnia, is that it actually happens while the person is unconscious. One interesting thing to note is that when people behave sexually while asleep, the partner, or the witness often reports that the behaviour - the quality and intensity of behaviour while asleep, sexually, is different from the behaviour, the sexual behaviour, of the person when he or she is awake. So even though the list of behaviours are similar, there can be qualitative difference into how they’re displayed when they’re asleep versus they’re awake.
Q. Well, what sort of sexual acts can be performed while someone is asleep?
A. So it can involve masturbation. It can involve vocalisation. It can involve anal sex. It can involve fondling. It can involve attempted intercourse or even completed sexual intercourse.
Q. Is it typical for partners to notice certain behaviour?
A. Yeah, so partners or bed partners, family members, are the ones who typically alert doctors or even the patient regarding their behaviours. Also, when it comes to sexsomnia, partners also note that the sexual behaviour is actually quite different when the patient is asleep versus when they’re awake. They tend to be - patients with sexsomnia tend to be more aggressive, less inhibited, less focused on satisfying the other person, which is different from their usual, what’s this, more playful or more pleasure-focused on the other person.
He gave further evidence that 90% or more patients suffering sexsomnia have no recall at all of such behaviour and the rest will have partial fragments of memory of it.
Dr Fernando took a history of the accused’s sleep symptoms and gave the following evidence:-
Q. Now, did he give you a history of his sleep symptoms?
A. Yes. So in addition to asking him about how he was currently, at the time of my interview in June, I also have to ask details of sleep symptoms. So he talked about being told that he stops breathing for seven to nine seconds while he’s asleep. He was told by someone, which is the first time he wondered about sleep apnoea, and then he said that he’s actually not conscious of many of the sleep behaviours or parasomnias that he was told about. His wife told him that he talks in his sleep, he walks in his sleep and also engages in sleep sex.
He was made aware by his daughter a few years back when they were in bed together. RE was asleep and apparently he touched her arm and the daughter said that - told him that - to let go of her arm and he was actually snoring and he cannot remember this incident. And around the time of the offence, he reported certain degree of sleepiness. So he’s someone, he said, who falls asleep quickly. He also says that he tends to clench his teeth when he’s awake, and then Tramadol, a pain medication he takes, has made it worse, resulting in pain in his right toe.
Q. What did he tell you about that?
A. So, he said that he was taking Tramadol during the trip when the incident occurred. He was taking 150 milligrams because he was expecting that - because of the activities during the trip, that he will have more shoulder pain than usual. He has had problems with both shoulders. He had a rotator cuff injury in 2010, and has been having cortisone injections every six or seven months, and then once the cortisone benefits wane, he will use Tramadol to manage his pain.
He also mentioned that Tramadol also makes him more interested in sex. He thinks of sex more, and notices women more when he’s on this medication. He said that he approached - approached - he would approach his wife more frequently for sex when he’s on Tramadol, and he said he’s been taking Tramadol for three to four years, and he took Tramadol during the holiday in 2021 when the incident occurred.
Q. Did he tell you about the events of the night of the offending?
A. Yeah, he mentioned that the police interviewed him ten days after the incident. He cannot recall which of the nights of the holiday, I think it was a prolonged holiday, that the complainant was referring to. When he was asked by the police regarding the date of the offending, he said he did not know, and that he never did anything to MG. He has no recollection of the event. He cannot remember who telephoned him, and at what time. He cannot remember MG being in the bed, and being woken up to answer a phone call.
He said that, given how he was apparently sleeping, he mentioned, as per evidence from other witnesses, he would not be able to rotate his arm the way he was described to be touching MG, as it would cause significant shoulder pain. He was quite confused about the whole event, wondering, number one, did MG make it all up? Or number two, did the touching occur before the phone call, but not after the phone call? Or did the touching occur before and after the phone call? So, there was a lot of confusion on his part.
Dr Fernando also took a detailed history from the accused’s wife as to his various sleep symptoms. This included that the accused falls asleep quickly wherever he is and that she has to push him hard a number of times before he responds when he is asleep. She also described various sleep behaviours including sexual touching and sexual intercourse while the accused was asleep.
Dr Fernando rehearsed the relevant passages from the accused’s ERISP interview and confirmed that the sleep study performed on the accused on 17 May 2022 revealed moderate obstructive sleep apnoea.
Dr Fernando was asked to give his opinion as to whether the accused was likely to have suffered from sexsomnia or any other type of parasomnia at the time of commission of the offence. He gave the following evidence:-
A. Yeah. So as mentioned in the beginning of the testimony, to diagnose someone with sexsomnia or parasomnia, we use a diagnostic criteria which includes the following, which I’ll mention, from DSM-5, which is from the American Psychiatric Association. The criteria for non-REM parasomnia includes - which includes sexsomnia is the following: number 1, recurrent episodes of incomplete awakening from sleep. Number 2, no or little dream imagery is recalled. Number 3, amnesia or lack of memory for the episodes is present. Number 4, clinically significant distress or impairment. Number 5, the disturbance is not due to the effects of a substance, and number 6, co-existing medical or mental conditions should not explain the episodes.
So in terms of the diagnosis of non-REM parasomnia, RE clearly fulfils all of the above criteria. Therefore, we can say that RE does have a non-REM parasomnia disorder. And then specifically regarding the first criteria, RE has displayed multiple non-REM parasomnia behaviours the past few years including sleepwalking, sleepwalking, sleep eating and sleep sex. Regarding criteria 2 about dream imagery, he does not have dream imagery in relation to the activities. Regarding--
Q. Just pause there for a moment, Doctor.
A. Yep, yep.
Q. When you say “dream imagery”, what do you mean by that?
A. Yes. So asking patients with parasomnias, particularly vigorous activities while they’re asleep, if we ask them about, “Did you have any dream associated when you were having the activity”, if they say yes, “Yep, I was dreaming, I was fighting the dragons so I was, you know, using my sword and it was vigorous and they hit me and then I hit them back”, if that happens, the likely diagnosis is not non-REM parasomnia. It’s a different type of parasomnia which we call REM behaviour disorder which has - which it can look similar from the outside but in the brain, it’s different.
So the treatment is different. So it’s important for us to exclude REM behaviour disorder because it’s a different condition and a different treatment.
So if someone like RE performs activities like sleep eating, sleepwalking or sleep sex, most of the time, non-REM parasomnia patients will not have any dreams because it’s occurring during the non-REM phase, not during the REM phase. If you will remember what I said earlier about sleep, we have two general phases. We have the REM phase when we dream and then the non- REM phase. Sexsomnia or parasomnias in general, sexsomnias particularly, are in the non-REM category. So if they have vivid dreaming, then we are now - the diagnosis is a little more problematic.
Q. All right. Then the third criteria?
A. So the third criteria involves recall or amnesia. Most patients with non-REM parasomnias don’t recall much, and in RE’s case, he does not remember any of the activities when confronted in the morning by GE in general, like, the different parasomnia activities. And then regarding criteria 4, for most of his life, his behaviours like sleepwalking, sleep-talking, sleep-eating, sleep-sex, have not resulted in distress to him or GE. GE, however, has protected him from potentially causing harm to the children, by making sure she sleeps between RE and the children. After the incident involving MG, RE developed a mood and anxiety condition. His personality changed, and he has lost interest in many aspects of his life.
Regarding criteria 5, we need to exclude alcohol, or recreational drugs as a trigger, or as a cause, because sometimes intoxication can be used as a defence of sexsomnia. In this case, there was no use of alcohol or recreational drugs. Regarding criteria 6, there are no other medical or psychiatric conditions that can explain the behaviour other than non-REM parasomnia. So, in terms of diagnosis, RE fulfils the criteria for experiencing non-REM parasomnia disorder. Specifically, he displays a few of them, including sleepwalking, sleep related sexual behaviour or sexsomnia, as well as sleep related eating disorder.
Dr Fernando gave further evidence that he took into account the accused’s diagnosis of sleep apnoea, his treatment for pain with the drug Tramadol and studies which suggested it resulted in increased sex drive, the family history concerning the accused’s brother, sister and daughter who had all displayed sleepwalking behaviours and the fact that the accused also reported bruxism which is teeth grinding, in his sleep.
In cross-examination Dr Fernando agreed there was no objective way of diagnosing sexsomnia, rather he described it as “a clinical diagnosis based on reports”, namely history taken. He gave the following evidence:-
Q. Would you say that the diagnosis of sexsomnia that you’ve made in this case was heavily reliant on what RE told you?
A. The biggest source for me was the wife. For me, that has the biggest weight. The reason is patients who have parasomnias often tell you the symptoms that people told them they have because, most of the time, they don’t have much recall. That’s why it’s important when we diagnose someone with parasomnia, so, for example, it’s not RE.
Q. With the history in relation to what happened with RE’s daughter, it certainly wasn’t an episode of sexsomnia?
A. No, but it’s - what it shows is he actually becomes touchy. Sexsomnia, like what I said, in terms of behaviours, has a huge range. It’s - it’s - it’s hard to say if it was technically sexsomnia, but it was - there was touching. With sexsomnia, the behaviours can be, like what I said earlier, masturbation, full-on sex, oral sex, anal sex, but fondling and touching is actually one of the most common behaviours. But in this case, it wasn’t sexual fondling, but it would have - well, I wouldn’t have wanted to know what would have happened if he was stopped, but it is possible that if SI did not stop him, it could have progressed further if it was a sexsomnia episode.
Dr Furst is a psychiatrist with training in risk assessment for sex offenders using the Static-99R instrument. The transcript of his evidence in the previous trial became Exhibit V (formerly MFI 10). He gave evidence of his extensive experience in assessing, treating and preparing psychiatric reports for offenders including sex offenders.
Dr Furst prepared a report dated 16 August 2022. He assessed the accused on 18 July 2022 via audio-visual link. He also had available the report from Dr Fernando dated 8 July 2022. He gave the following evidence:-
Q. Did you then make a diagnosis of RE?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. What was the diagnosis that you made?
A. So, I was of the opinion the primary mental disorder from RE was one of a non-REM parasomnia disorder, so non-rapid eye movement parasomnia disorder, with abnormal behaviours of sleepwalking, sleep eating, and sleep-related sexual behaviour, which is also known as sexsomnia. The basis for that diagnosis was the history provided by the accused and his wife in relation to abnormal sleep behaviour, and sleep history, and the summary of the history and examinations outlined in the comprehensive report of Dr Antonio Fernando dated 8 July 2022.
I concluded that he did not have a major mental illness such as a bipolar disorder, a bipolar-affected disorder, or schizophrenia, and I further concluded that he had symptoms of depression and anxiety, which included the panic disorders I’ve referred to, and they related to his arrest and incarceration in February 2021, and the subsequent stress of legal proceedings over the last 18 months, consistent with an adjustment disorder with depressed and anxious mood.
And in terms of medical conditions, RE has chronic pain disorder, as a consequence of bilateral rotator cuff injuries, non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, and obstructive sleep apnoea. I also noted that RE did – did not present as having any features of sexual deviance, and has no apparent sexual attraction to prepubescent children, in particular.
Q. Did you then provide an opinion, and did you form the opinion that it was apparent from the material, the report of Dr Fernando, and the history provided by the accused that he had consistently denied having any recollection of sexually assaulting the complainant?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it also apparent to you that he most likely has a parasomnia?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you form the opinion, based on the matters that you’ve referred to, that he was probably sleeping at the time of the alleged offending?
A. Yes.
Dr Furst was cross-examined as to his limited experience in interviewing persons who have experienced or witnessed episodes of sexsomnia. He gave evidence that sleep medicine is not a particular speciality of his but rather is part of psychiatry in terms of psychiatric diagnoses related to sleep, whereas sleep medicine is concerned with respiratory physicians or ENT surgeons.
In cross-examination he agreed that there was no indication in his report that the accused indicated that his wife had told him that he had been having sex with her whilst she was asleep.
Dr Furst conceded as follows:-
Q. So you’ve given evidence that you’re not really an expert and you don’t really know how quickly people fall into or what phase of sleep or how long after someone falls asleep parasomniac episodes generally arise. Is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. Dr Furst, you’re aware that Dr Fernando is a sleep specialist?
A. Yes.
Q. And you reviewed his report before providing your opinion?
A. Yes.
Q. And you saw that Dr Fernando concluded that, based on a particular set of criteria that he applied, that based on that criteria, the accused was probably asleep at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. Did that have a high influence on your opinion?
A. No, not really.
Q. What experience do you have, doctor, if any, of interviewing people who have had or experienced or witnessed episodes of sexsomnia?
A. Well, of course, the issue of sexsomnia is a recent phenomena, but I’ve had prior experience in assessing clients who have put forward this as a defence in court. It’s only really been in recent years that this has come to the fore, and in which I’ve been involved in that assessment of those kind of people with those kinds of defences.
Dr O’Dea gave evidence of the material with which he was qualified which included the same material as Dr Furst and Dr Fernando. He also had access to the sleep study report dated 10 May 2022.
Based on that evidence, Dr O’Dea gave evidence about his opinion as follows:-
Q. You give an opinion saying, “This history would be consistent with RE having a history of significant sleep problems, including sexsomnia. That is a history of having engaged in more structured sexual activities whilst asleep”.
A. Yes.
Q. And which history are you referring to?
A. The entirety of it, which is that there’s a history of him engaging in behaviours whilst asleep that, you know, involve, you know, talking or touching, and there’s also a history of him engaging in more structured sexual activity, and, of course, that history is involved from his daughter, his wife, and, notwithstanding the - the matters that are before the jury, the history is from his account of, and the account of the complainant in the alleged offences, and they are a history of him engaging in sexual activity whilst apparently asleep on the basis that it’s, you know, other people have at least made reference to the potential of him being asleep and he said he’s asleep and he can’t remember it.
Q. Doctor, you say that that history that you’ve just explained at length there was consistent with him having a history of sleep problems including sexsomnia. When you say the history was consistent with him having a sleep history of sexsomnia, were you able to make any firm diagnosis as to whether he had sexsomnia or not?
A. Because the - the - the answer to that is that, you know, that that would be a reasonable diagnosis to make, and the term, “firm”, is a poor one, particularly in sexsomnia, since, you know, it is a syndromally based diagnosis that’s, essentially, unless there’s non-REM - I mean, unless there’s sleep study confirmation, there’s still - you know, it - it’s something that’s, as I’ve said in one of the other paragraphs, subsequently, still very difficult to independently identify and confirm. So he - he meets the syndromal diagnosis in psychiatry of a - sexsomnia or non-REM parasomnia disorder, but that’s simply on his history and on the fact that there is increasingly reported diagnoses of this syndrome that allow people to consider it as something that’s worthy of psychiatric attention.
Q. Now, you also give an opinion in your report that it would be less likely, that is, sexsomnia, an episode of sexsomnia, would be less likely to occur in the first couple of minutes of sleep; why do you say that, Doctor?
A. Well, simply because, you know, looking at things from that perspective of the cycle of moving through the stages of non-REM sleep, that, you know, people are in much greater periods of - or should I say, first of all, that with sexsomniac behaviours being in non-REM three, that people are less likely to be directly into non-REM three than move from non-REM one to two to three, but, of course, as I understand it, these things are not absolute and that people can rapidly move in, you know, through those phases, and, therefore, it’s not inconceivable, from the understanding of the sleep cycle, that these kind of matters could occur, you know, very early on within the first couple of minutes of sleep if somebody is moving through those sleep cycles rapidly, but it’s, you know on - on the basis of sleep architecture, it’s less likely that people would do that.
Q. Did you say this at paragraph 82,
“If it were to be accepted that RE was asleep at the time of the alleged offence , and it were to be accepted that he engaged in a sexual behaviour as detailed in the alleged offence, then his behaviours in relation to the alleged offence would be considered parasomnic or sexsomnic behaviour, and as such could be argued that the alleged offence were not committed in consciousness of the nature of the acts or in exercise of his will to do the acts, as he was asleep at the material time, and therefore he was acting involuntarily, and that that is with an absence of volition in relation to the alleged offences”?
A. Yes, that’s what I’ve said.
Q. In relation to the sleep study, is it the situation that the fact that parasomnic behaviour is not captured during that study does not exclude the possibility that it exists?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And indeed, you were--
A. It also has one other impact and that is, of course, that it doesn’t confirm that sexsomnia does exist--
Q. No, but it doesn’t--
A. --and of course it’s - at the very - I mean, of course, we do - I think as a psychiatrist I’m required to remind people, and I’m aware that the Court has already been reminded of this, that this - psychiatric diagnosis, of course, particularly this kind of psychiatric diagnosis, is a syndromally based condition. In this situation based on self-report and reports of others which, of course, can be accurate and true or misleading, and with - in the absence of positive sleep study evidence, the absence of any pathophysiological background basis, and even if there was positive physiological background basis of positive EEG finding, that may confirm the diagnosis of sexsomnia, but it wouldn’t necessarily confirm that the behaviour we’re looking at in a forensic setting is necessarily sexsomnia, so it is - so the idea of the - and the diagnosis in psychiatry as I’m making in this situation, is a syndromal one, and, of course, it’s based on criteria, for example in DSM5TR, and the role of the diagnosis, of course, is in assist - in organising treatment for the condition and predicting outcome, and it has problems with being translated, of course, into forensic settings.
Q. So ultimately what you’re saying is the history is consistent with it, but ultimately it’s a question of fact for the jury?
A. Correct, and I’ve made reference to that, I think, in paragraph 79, that, you know, I’m not in a position to conclusively determine whether RE was asleep at the time of the alleged offence or awake, you know, independent of whether he’s - meets the psychiatric diagnostic criteria of sexsomnia or not.
Dr Nieuwenhuizen is a forensic pharmacologist or toxicologist employed by the NSW Police Force. The transcript of her evidence in the previous trial became Exhibit P (formerly MFI 3). She was asked to give evidence about the drug Tramadol which she described as an opioid used as a painkiller for moderate to severe pain.
She gave further evidence that it was commonly prescribed as an extended release form in which case it would take 12 hours until it reached its maximum concentration. She described a dose of 150 mg as being a relatively high dose. She gave the following evidence:-
Q. What are the most common side effects of the drug?
A. Yeah, as an opioid drug, the most common side effects are nausea, constipation, vomiting, falling asleep, and headaches.
Q. Is there any scientific research or literature that you’re aware of that supports that the drug increases libido?
A. Not that I was able to - to find, no.
Q. I think there’s also some research that shows that long-term use of it can lead to erectile dysfunction?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. You were not aware of any scientific literature that reports an increase in libido from the--
A. Not that I was able to find, no.
(i) Affidavit of SI sworn on 9 October 2025
SI is the daughter of the accused and described him as “kind and empathetic”. She deposed to his employment history since arriving in Australia as a 27 year old and his 25 years as a mathematics teacher. She described him as “very nurturing” as a parent and grandparent. SI also deposed to his service to the church, glowing recommendations received from students and his diligent compliance with bail conditions, as well as the impact on the accused of these proceedings. Finally she described the allegations as “completely out of character”.
(ii) Affidavit of RE sworn 11 February 2026
RE is the older brother of the accused who deposed that the charge is completely out of character for the accused. He deposed to the family history in which the accused had close interactions with his two daughters and the influence the accused had on their lives. He expressed complete trust in the accused and deposed to the impact upon him of the current charge. Finally he described the accused as “a man of faith, integrity and care for children, both his own and others” and someone who had dedicated his life to “nurturing, teaching and protecting children, not harming them.”
(iii) Affidavit of Madonna Hana sworn 17 October 2025
Ms Hana deposed that she had known the accused since she was 14 years old for a period for a period of 16 years as a close friend of his daughter, SI. She deposed that over that period of time she had spent a lot of time in the E home and the church community and had never experienced the accused to portray any inappropriate behaviour towards children. She further deposed that she had observed the accused to be an educated man who cares deeply about his daughters’ education and expressed that she had never felt unsafe or uncomfortable in his presence.
(iv) Affidavit of Michael Power sworn 20 October 2025
Mr Power is a retired schoolteacher with 43 years teaching experience and had known the accused for 13 years, both as a colleague and socially. He deposed that the accused is a man of good character and that the charge of intentionally sexually touching a child was completely out of character. Finally he deposed that the accused is highly regarded as a teacher both by students and his peers.
“(1) A Judge who tries criminal proceedings without a jury may make any finding that could have been made by a jury on the question of the guilt of the accused person. Any such finding has, for all purposes, the same effect as a verdict of a jury.
(2) A judgment by a Judge in any such case must include the principles of law applied by the Judge and the findings of fact on which the Judge relied.
(3) If any Act or law requires a warning to be given to a jury in any such case, the Judge is to take the warning into account in dealing with the matter.”
The accused has the presumption of innocence in his favour, that is, he is presumed to be innocent unless and until the Crown has proved each of the elements of the offence beyond reasonable doubt. I am mindful that the onus of proof remains at all times on the Crown to prove the elements of the charge, beyond reasonable doubt. Speculation cannot enter into my considerations and suspicion, not even the gravest of suspicion, can be a substitute for proof beyond reasonable doubt.
I have heard submissions from the Crown and counsel for the accused in their addresses. I will consider those submissions and give them such weight as I think they deserve. In no sense are those submissions evidence in the trial.
It is for me to assess the various witnesses and decide whether they are reliable. The reliability of any witness’ evidence depends upon both the witness’ honesty and the witness’ accuracy. The honesty of a witness involves considering not only what the witness said (or perhaps did not say) but also the impression that the witness made upon me. I am not obliged to accept the whole of the evidence of any witness. I may, if I think fit, accept part and reject part of that witness’ evidence.
I remind myself that the fact that a proposition is put by counsel to a witness does not mean that the proposition is evidence of the fact contained in the question, and it only becomes evidence of the fact if the witness accepts that proposition as true or if there is other evidence that proves the proposition.
I remind myself that I may as the Judge of the facts draw inferences from the direct evidence. Inferences are conclusions of fact rationally drawn from a combination of proved facts. Inferences may be valid or invalid, justified or unjustified, correct or incorrect. In this criminal trial I must be satisfied of the guilt of the accused beyond reasonable doubt. Amongst other things, that means that I should be extremely careful about drawing any inference. I should examine any possible inference to ensure that it is a rational inference in the circumstances.
The elements of the offence in Count 1 on the Indictment of sexual touching are as follows. The Crown must prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused:
Sexually touched the complainant,
The touching was intentional, and
The complainant was under 16 years old, namely 14 years old.
There is no dispute about the third element of the offence. The complainant’s birth certificate is in evidence as Exhibit G.
The Crown relied on a written outline of submissions which was marked for identification (MFI 20). The Crown relied on the complainant’s record of interview to police at Q84 (above) to establish the physical act of sexual touching by the accused of the complainant’s leg and rubbing of her vagina outside her clothing. The Crown submitted this was corroborated by her Instagram messages to her boyfriend at the time where she wrote, “My uncle is touching me. I don’t know what to do”.
The Crown submitted that the accused appeared to accept the complainant’s account in his answer to Q48 of his ERISP:-
“I know the, the nature of, um, young teenagers, with they, in - they not gunna lie about something like that. So, I started – I remembered the situation. But she, MG, the one who came behind me. I didn’t go chasing her or something. I didn’t know that she – it was MG. I was asleep, and then if this happened, so it happened on the basis that my wife is sleeping next to me.”
The Crown submitted that I would not accept a submission on behalf of the accused that the complainant’s account was implausible. It was submitted there was no precision in the placement of the accused and complainant on the bed. For example, the accused’s own exhibit, Exhibit 1, showed three women in the same bed.
The Crown also submitted that I would not accept the accused’s submission that the complainant had a motive to lie. That motive had been put to her in cross-examination, namely that she made the allegation in order to “patch things up” with DM, with which she had disagreed. The Crown submitted that the suggested motive could not possibly be a motive to lie in that a sexual assault could not “patch things up”.
The Crown noted that the Court would have to give the accused the full benefit of his acquittal on Count 2, but that the full benefit did not mean that the evidence cannot have the incidental effect of casting doubt upon or even demonstrating the error of an earlier decision, relying on R v Carroll (2002) 213 CLR 635; [2002] HCA 55 at [50].
The Crown further submitted that the principle of incontrovertibility required the court to discern the basis of the first jury’s verdict, in this case, the Court of Criminal Appeal’s acquittal on Count 2, relying on Abdullah v R [2019] NSWCCA 294. In response to a question from the Court, the Crown agreed that the basis of the CCA’s acquittal on Count 2 was clear enough, namely the timing issue concerning the photographs and phone calls which rendered the complainant’s evidence in relation to that count unreliable.
The Crown submitted that in respect of the acquittal count the Crown had run its case by reference to the Instagram messages the complainant had sent between 8:46 p.m. and 8:52 p.m. That timeline was deemed to be implausible by reference to the call charge records relating to the various calls between the accused and Emad Guirguis.
The Crown submitted there could be no issue that the first photograph sent by the complainant was at 8:42 p.m. which was during the alleged Count 1 conduct. That accords with her evidence about the first two photos. The Crown argued the complainant’s evidence that was at odds with the unchallenged evidence was the product of an honest mistake and did not undermine the reliability of her evidence concerning Count 1.
The Crown submitted that the photograph, Exhibit B, had been provided by DM to Preetham Jalady who then provided it to the complainant’s sister, XG. The Crown submitted that the call charge records indicated that the accused was not on the phone call at the time the second photo was sent and that the complainant’s evidence in this regard was understandably uncertain.
As the Crown relied on Exhibit B as representing that the accused was on the phone, and the photo was sent at 8:46 p.m., this locked the complainant’s version into a timing that was incompatible with the complainant’s evidence which the CCA therefore viewed as incompatible with the call charge records. The Crown submitted:-
“Given her evidence about Count 2 occurring after the phone call, it would’ve been possible, it’s submitted, to have formulated the Crown case that it was actually the third photograph sent, which was the photo taken by the complainant of the accused on the phone or just off the phone.”
The Crown went on to submit that there was further uncertainty as to the complainant’s estimate of the duration of the conduct in relation to both Count 1 and Count 2.
As an aide to her submissions, the Crown prepared a table of the text messages in Exhibit H as a visual representation of what messages related to each count. It was submitted this allowed the Court to understand the complainant’s evidence in a different way from the way the Crown case ran at the first trial and on appeal, because the Crown case was restrictive in the way it was run.
The Crown submitted the Court of Criminal Appeal’s finding of unreliability of the complainant’s evidence regarding Count 2 does not lead to a finding that her evidence in respect of Count 1 lacks credibility, nor does it mean that the complainant’s evidence is necessarily unreliable on all matters, relying on Barney v R [2023] NSWCCA 85 at [21]. The Crown submitted that the complainant’s evidence in respect of the respective acts that was at odds with the unchallenged evidence as to the timing of the phone call and Instagram messages “was the product of honest mistake and thus does not undermine the credibility or reliability of the complainant’s account of Count 1”. The Crown submitted that any issue with the complainant’s reliability in respect of Count 2 could be compartmentalised to the issue of timing.
The Crown accepted that it had the burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt on the issue of automatism to prove that the accused was intentionally touching the complainant.
The Crown referred to the ERISP interview where he told police, “that it was normal and nothing strange and nothing weird for MG to be in the bed, even if he was in bed (A284, A285).” The Crown also relied on what the accused told police about his intimate relationship with his wife characterising it as “a very strange account of normal sex”. The account he gave concerning features of their marital sexual relationship was submitted to be “the accused essentially trying his luck beginning sexual encounters while his wife was asleep”, rather than an episode of sexsomnia. Similarly, what he wrote to the complainant’s father about an incident with his daughter, SI two years beforehand may be regarded as not an episode of sexsomnia “because the accused says that he woke up”. The evidence of the accused’s daughter, SI was submitted to be “a little different” and the incident was trivial.
The Crown submitted that the evidence of the accused’s wife was important evidence in the trial. The Crown referred to her evidence that the sexual things the accused does in his sleep began about 15 years into their marriage. The Crown submitted, “in light of the accused’s account of how he instigates sexual activity on a normal day in his ERISP, what GE is describing is, it’s submitted, unlikely to be sexsomnia”.
The Crown submitted that her evidence that she thought his sexual behaviour while he was asleep was normal was very difficult to believe. When comparing intentional sexual behaviour between them, the Crown submitted the major point of difference was that he did not talk to her after sex when he was asleep and the next day, he could not remember it. Other features of her evidence, namely that he fell asleep too quickly and was not talking afterwards were totally consistent with his general presentation and not an indicator of sexsomnia.
The Crown submitted that the accused did not corroborate his wife’s evidence.
The Crown submitted that the accused’s wife’s evidence that she was hypervigilant about anyone sleeping next to the accused was inherently implausible because it was simply unbelievable that she allowed MG to enter the bed with him knowing that he suffered from sexsomnia which he acted upon in his sleep with a frequency of about once a month. Her evidence that she was watching to make sure everything was ok was simply not a credible explanation. The Crown further submitted that she was looking at MG the entire time and that nothing untoward had occurred was inconsistent with the text messages sent by the accused to the complainant’s father on 2 February 2021.
The Crown submitted the Court would not find that the accused’s wife was a witness of truth because her version was not backed up by her husband’s ERISP, if he was truly performing unusual actions in his sleep. It makes no sense that she would allow MG to share the bed with him if she knew that he would act sexually in his sleep. The Crown submitted that her evidence should be rejected and the rejection of her evidence has a flow on effect to the evidence of the experts in relation to sexsomnia.
The Crown then submitted that each of the experts differed on their level and degree of experience, training and study although Dr Fernando was the most qualified to give evidence about sexsomnia. As all three experts found that it was likely that the accused experienced an episode of sexsomnia, the Crown must persuade the Court to reject that evidence so as to establish proof beyond reasonable doubt of Count 1. The Crown submitted that the opinions of all three experts were inextricably linked to what the accused’s wife said. The Crown submitted that she was not a witness of truth for the reasons set out above which formed a basis for rejecting the expert opinions which were largely founded on her accounts. The Crown acknowledged that Dr Fernando gave evidence that he would still find it possible to make a diagnosis of sexsomnia without the accused’s wife’s accounts of the accused’s sleeping patterns.
The Crown submitted that Dr Furst also diagnosed the accused with sexsomnia on two bases. First, the history provided by the accused and his wife and secondly, the summary of the history and examinations outlined in Dr Fernando’s report.
The Crown also referred to the opinions of Dr O’Dea which were based only on an interview with the accused. The Crown characterised the history on which he proceeded as being completely at odds with the accused’s interview with police.
Ultimately the Crown submitted that the Court would reject the diagnosis of sexsomnia based on the accounts which ultimately lack credibility. Accepting that submission, the accused’s act provides the most convincing evidence of his intention which, the Crown submitted, was to intentionally touch the complainant.
The Crown submitted that the character evidence relied on by the accused did not provide a defence for him and was a matter of weight.
The Crown submitted the complaint evidence to DM was a contemporaneous and detailed account of the accused’s actual actions. The Crown characterised it as compelling evidence which could be used both for the truth of the representation and to affirm the credit of the complainant. The Crown submitted the complaint to her mother was not relied upon for the truth of the representation in circumstances where the complainant didn’t speak about the conduct in Count 1 to her mother. However that evidence was relied on to support the credit of the complainant.
The Crown submitted that the Court would take into account the complainant’s evidence as to why she didn’t do anything, namely why she didn’t scream or call out to her mother. The complainant gave evidence, “I don’t know, I didn’t want to ruin the holiday or GE. GE is your best friend and I didn’t want to cause any problem between both of you”. The Crown submitted this to be a compelling account which made sense in the context of the relationships as viewed by a 14 year old complainant. This was further corroborated by the message the complainant sent to DM at the time. The Crown submitted that the complainant’s conduct and actions were entirely consistent with her complaint. The accused touched her sexually while she was on the bed and she made immediate complaint to her boyfriend but could not tell her mother in the context of the family holiday and the relationship she knew her disclosure would destroy. The evidence established that in the following week she didn’t eat properly. She subsequently reported the matter to the police and gave compelling evidence in court. A true verdict in this matter is a verdict of guilty.
Counsel for the accused first submitted that the Court would not accept the Crown submissions recasting the timeline of events in respect of the Instagram messages exchanged between the complainant and DM which would require a rejection of parts of her evidence without those matters ever having been put to her. There was no basis for accepting the Crown’s submission that the Court might reinterpret the timeline in circumstances where the evidence as it relates to the acquittal count is exactly the same in this trial as it was in the first trial.
Counsel submitted that the principle of incontrovertibility meant that I could only interpret the evidence about what occurred in the acquittal count in a way that was consistent with the findings in the Court of Criminal Appeal, referring to [108] and [123]-[124] of the judgment.
It was submitted that in circumstances where the Crown had the opportunity to make an application to examine the complainant in relation to further matters, but did not, the finding could not be made that her evidence was confused, or uncertain about the Instagram messages and their timing. The Crown attempt to recast its case in respect of the messages was contrary to the evidence of the complainant as it had been adduced in this trial.
Counsel took issue with the Crown’s characterisation of the evidence of the accused’s wife that there were only two differentiating features as the basis for the diagnosis of sexsomnia whereas in fact, she had enumerated a number of features of his conduct when asleep. Further, any history between times when the accused had contact with the complainant prior to this allegation was not something that was explored with the accused’s wife.
In reviewing the evidence of the accused’s wife, it was submitted that some allowance should be made for the fact that she was giving evidence about events that took place over the course of 15 years. It was noted that the accused was her one and only ever sexual partner and therefore her “normal” is what she experienced with the accused. The Court would also accept the evidence given by her that she didn’t interfere when the complainant got onto the bed with the accused as the complainant’s mother was present and had told her to go there and, in their culture, it wasn’t considered polite to contradict the mother. Further, the mother was close by, keeping an eye on things and would have been able to intervene. Counsel also noted that it was embarrassing for the accused’s wife to raise this issue concerning their intimate relationship.
Counsel submitted that at the time of his ERISP interview the accused had no knowledge of the existence of a condition called sexsomnia or parasomnia sexualised activities. It was submitted that at times during the interview he tried to give MG the benefit of the doubt but in general he maintained that he was asleep at the time anything could have happened with her. When viewed as a whole, in the ERISP he categorically rejects the acquittal count. With respect to Count 1, which happened before the phone call, the Court would be well entitled to take the view that his evidence was that he was asleep prior to the phone call, he doesn’t know what happened in that period of time and that if it did happen, it happened while he was asleep. He gave some context of that by telling the police about the incident with his daughter which had happened some years beforehand.
Counsel then outlined the two ways in which the defence case is put, namely first, that the accused did not sexually touch the complainant and secondly, that if that conduct did occur it was a reasonable possibility that it was not a voluntary act and therefore, not a crime.
On the first basis, counsel submitted there was 7 broad topics the Court would take into account giving rise to serious doubt about the occurrence of the conduct alleged. First, it was extremely unlikely the conduct occurred in the way in which the complainant described it. Counsel submitted it would have been a very awkward manoeuvre for the accused to engage in at a time when the complainant’s mother and his wife were sitting in the adjacent bed over a period of 45 minutes to an hour.
Secondly, was the failure of his wife and the complainant’s mother to notice anything during that period of time, particularly given the complainant’s evidence that the rubbing of her vagina took place over a period of a few minutes and the entirety of Count 1 lasted about 7 minutes. Neither the complainant’s mother, nor the accused’s wife gave any evidence that they observed any movement until the accused got up and answered the phone. His wife gave evidence that he was asleep when the phone rang and that he didn’t move, whereas the complainant’s mother had no memory of him moving.
Thirdly, the complainant’s evidence in relation to the Instagram messages in Exhibit 2 significantly damaged her credibility. When questioned about those messages, she was being evasive, equivocal or misleading about the nature and character of the messages which would adversely impact on the Court’s assessment of her credibility as an honest, truthful and reliable witness. The Court would not accept her characterisation of the messages as being a “light-hearted chat or a tease with her boyfriend,” rather DM’s displeasure or unhappiness with her messages was obvious and her evidence in relation to them was misleading, incorrect and a fabrication to try and put a gloss on the evidence that reflected poorly on her. When she finally did accept that DM had become upset or offended, she would only accept that he was “a bit cut” or a bit upset. Counsel submitted that it was clearly a conversation where DM’s feelings were hurt and it was only when he failed to respond to her on 7 occasions, the inference being that she had become upset and eventually pleaded with him not be mad at her. Counsel submitted that the evidence established she was attempting to cast those messages in a much more innocent way than in fact they were. Thus the Court could assess her as an unreliable and untruthful historian.
Fourthly, the same evidence proved that the complainant had a motive to lie in respect of Count 1, that motive was to engender feelings of sympathy, empathy and commitment from DM by making the complaint to him about the sexual touching.
Counsel submitted that this was also in an indirect way supported by the fact that DM was the main source of complaint from her as each of the other complaint witnesses found out from someone else about the nature of the allegations.
Fifthly, counsel submitted the consequences of an acquittal on Count 2 would eventually flow into an assessment of the credibility of the complainant in Count 1. Giving the accused the full benefit of his acquittal means accepting that the complainant’s evidence about the occurrence of the conduct in the acquittal count was significantly undermined. It further meant accepting that the conduct alleged in Count 2 could not have occurred consistently with the evidence that the complainant gave at trial and that her evidence was irreconcilable with the timing of the phone calls because she was lying about that conduct and it did not in fact occur. That was a powerful inference to be drawn from the evidence and was almost terminal to the complainant’s credibility. Counsel then outlined what he submitted was a far more likely scenario of what occurred based on the timeline.
Sixthly, counsel relied on the physical limitation the accused had due to shoulder pain in both shoulders and being prescribed Tramadol. He had disclosed in his ERISP interview in the context of providing an explanation that he could not move his arms in the fashion alleged. Counsel characterised it as “circumstantial corroborative circumstance in relation to whether or not he could have engaged in the conduct or whether it was likely that he could’ve engaged in the conduct as alleged”.
Seventhly, the Court could take into account the accused’s good character as outlined in the four affidavits read on his behalf. That evidence established that he had unsupervised contact with children or teenage girls as a teacher and weighed heavily in favour of the suggestion that he did not engage in the conduct alleged against him.
Counsel submitted that the evidence established that the accused was asleep immediately before the telephone call from Mr Guirguis. Each of the three experts were unanimously of the opinion that the accused suffered an episode of sexsomnia at the time. Dr Fernando had based his diagnosis on his interview with the accused, and a separate interview with the accused’s wife. He had further reviewed the record of interview with the complainant, the police statement of the complainant’s mother, the accused’s ERISP, the statement of Mr Guirguis, the photographs and video depicting the accused sleeping and the medical report of Dr Chan dated 7 April 2021. Dr Fernando had stated the most significant source of information was that of the accused’s wife because the nature of the condition is that the person suffering from a parasomnia doesn’t know what has happened which was consistent with aspects of the accused’s interview with the police. Further, the diagnosis was consistent with what was referred to as to the Buchanan checklist of ten matters on which Dr Fernando based his findings to come to the following conclusion:-
“Using the Buchanan checklist for assessment of sleep sex behaviours in the forensic context, sexsomnia is a probable explanation for the sexual touching which occurred between the accused and the complainant.”
Counsel then rehearsed the evidence that established the accused was asleep at the time immediately before the telephone call from Mr Guirguis. That evidence was in the context of the complainant’s evidence that the accused had been in the bed for 45 minutes to an hour before the alleged conduct. When viewed as a whole, a combination of the various aspects of the evidence provides a powerful basis for a finding that the accused was asleep at the time of the phone call and immediately preceding when the conduct in Count 1 was alleged to have taken place. It was submitted that the evidence of MG to the effect that the accused was watching TV during that period of time could not be accepted as she could not see his face and could not remember what position he was lying in, or him talking to anyone for the entire period. Both MG and NG gave evidence that the accused’s wife woke him up to answer the phone (although NG disavowed her evidence in the first trial). It was submitted that the Court would accept evidence that he was asleep and that his eyes were closed at the time the phone rang. It was submitted that what precipitated the accused getting out of bed was his wife saying words directed towards him. Both the phone records and the agreed facts in Exhibit H reflect that he in fact missed a call from Mr Guiguis, something that neither MG nor NG seem to recall. Counsel characterised this as a significant piece of circumstantial evidence that suggested he was asleep at the time the call was coming through to his phone.
Counsel further relied on the evidence of Emad Guirguis in which he told the Court that the accused told him he had missed the phone call because he was asleep and that his wife had woken him up. Mr Guirguis was cross-examined on this point but remained relatively steadfast in his evidence that the accused said he was asleep. He gave a reasonable explanation for that not being in his police statement. It was submitted that Mr Guirguis was a neutral party to the proceedings and had no particular allegiance to any party.
It was submitted the Court would also have regard to the evidence that it wasn’t unusual for the accused to fall asleep at random times, based on the evidence of his wife and the photographs in Exhibit D. Mr Guirguis also gave evidence that the accused fell asleep at his mother’s funeral.
Counsel also relied on the evidence of the pre-existing diagnosis of obstructive sleep apnoea and the accused’s extensive history of falling asleep very quickly when he sits or lies down.
Counsel also relied on the evidence concerning Tramadol as a painkiller. One of the most common side effects of that was falling asleep.
Counsel submitted the Court would have significant doubt about whether the conduct as alleged by MG occurred at all in respect of Count 1 but if the Court was satisfied then the evidence concerning whether he was asleep at the time was almost overwhelming and on that alternative basis he was entitled to an acquittal.
The complainant in this case has given evidence by CCTV. This is standard procedure in cases of this type. I should not draw any inference against the accused or give the evidence any greater or lesser weight simply because it is given in this manner. I should assess the evidence in the same way as I assess the evidence of any other witness in the case.
Where I have received transcripts of audio recordings, it is what I heard on the audio recordings themselves that is the evidence rather than the transcript. The transcript is provided merely to assist me.
Intent and intention are very familiar words; in this legal context they carry their ordinary meaning.
Intention may be inferred or deduced from the circumstances in which the alleged sexual touching and the conduct of the accused before, at the time of, or after he did the specific act alleged. Whatever a person says about his intention may be looked at for the purpose of finding out what that intention was in fact at the relevant time.
In some cases, a person’s acts may themselves provide the most convincing evidence of his intention. Where a specific result is the obvious and inevitable consequence of a person’s act, and where he deliberately does that act. I may readily conclude that he did that act with the intention of achieving that specific result.
I must remember that I am considering the intention of the accused not what my intention might have been had I been in his position, nor the intention of any theoretical person.
In this case the parties have agreed to adduce certain evidence by way of an agreed statement of facts contained in Exhibit H. This document has a number of annexures to it.
I must accept the contents of Exhibit H and proceed on the basis that none of the facts asserted in that document are disputed by the parties. I must accordingly give those facts full weight in my consideration of the issues in the trial.
If I find there are inconsistencies in the complainant’s account that may be relevant to her truthfulness or reliability, I am directed that experience shows:
(a) People may not remember all the details of a sexual offence or may not describe a sexual offence in the same way each time. (b) Trauma may affect people differently, including affecting how they recall events. (c) It is common for there to be differences of accounts in a sexual offence, and (d) Both truthful and untruthful accounts of a sexual offence may contain differences.
It is up to me as the tribunal of fact to decide whether or not any differences in the complainant’s account are important in assessing the complainant’s truthfulness and reliability.
I direct myself that:-
(a) there is no typical or normal response to non-consensual sexual activity, and (b) people may respond to non-consensual sexual activity in different ways, including by freezing, and (c) I must avoid making assessments based on preconceived ideas about how people respond to non-consensual sexual activity.
I direct myself that:-
(a) Trauma may affect people differently which means that some people may show obvious signs of emotion or distress when giving evidence in court about an alleged sexual offence, but others may not, and (b) The presence or absence of emotion or distress does not necessarily mean that a person is not telling the truth about an alleged sexual offence.
The Crown relies on the evidence of the complainant having told her boyfriend, DM her mother, NG and Preetham Jalady about the alleged sexual touching by the accused. This is referred to as “complaint evidence”. The evidence the Crown relies upon falls into three categories. They are:
(a) The complaint to DM; (b) The complaint to NG; and (c) The complaint to Preetham Jalady.
It is for me to determine whether there was complaint by the complainant.
If I determine that complaint was made, the following directions apply to how it may be used.
Section 60 use
The first way in which the evidence may be relevant is that it can be regarded as additional evidence the complainant was touched in the way she described. So, not only would I have the complainant’s evidence before me about being touched by the accused, I would also have the description of the touching that was given to DM and Preetham Jalady.
Credibility use
The second way the evidence of complaint may be used is that it can be relevant to the truthfulness of the complainant’s evidence in court.
The Crown says the fact the complainant complained to DM, Preetham Jalady and NG, and when the complainant did and in the circumstances in which the complainant did makes it more likely the complainant is telling the truth about having been touched by the accused.
The defence disputes this. The defence case is that RE did not touch the complainant in the way she described.
I can only use the evidence of complaint in this way. I cannot use it as evidence that the touching occurred. The Crown did not lead the complaint evidence as itself being able to prove the charge. I can only find the charge proved on the evidence given in the courtroom and not what was said at some other place and time to DM, Preetham Jalady and NG.
Another matter I should consider is that just because a person says something on more than one occasion it does not mean that what is said is necessarily true or reliable. A false or inaccurate statement does not become more reliable just because it is repeated.
Experience shows that people may not remember all the details of an event including a sexual offence in the same way each time, that trauma may affect people differently and may affect how they recall events, that it is common there are differences in an account of a sexual offence, and both truthful and untruthful accounts of an event including a sexual offence may contain differences. It is my job, and entirely a matter for me, as judge of the facts, to decide whether or not any differences in the complainant’s account are important in assessing her truthfulness and reliability.
It would be natural to ask why the complainant would make up such a serious allegation against the accused. I give myself the following directions about that question:
The essential elements of the Crown case must be proved beyond reasonable doubt, or the accused must be acquitted. If the case turns on the evidence of the complainant, I must be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the complainant has told the truth.
It is my duty to decide whether I accept the evidence of a witness in whole or in part. The complainant is no exception to that.
It would be wrong to conclude that the complainant is telling the truth because there is no apparent reason, in my view, for the complainant to lie. People lie for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it is apparent. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes the reason is discovered. Sometimes it is not. I cannot be satisfied that the complainant is telling the truth merely because there is no apparent reason for the complainant to have made up these allegations. There might be a reason for the complainant to be untruthful that nobody knows about.
The accused bears no onus to prove a motive to lie. If I reject the accused’s assertion that the complainant had a motive to make untruthful allegations, that in itself does not justify a conclusion that the evidence of the complainant is truthful.
The accused relied on the record of interview he made with police on 16 February 2021. That account is to the following effect that:-
(a) He recalled NG, his wife and MG sitting in front of him before he fell asleep. (b) He couldn’t recall MG coming into the bed, and thought she was his wife. (c) He couldn’t recall anything about the incident. (d) His wife later told him that he was sleeping with his back to MG. (e) He did not know it was MG. He was asleep and in his brain it was his wife. (f) He was in a deep sleep, and he didn’t know someone came onto the bed next to him. (g) He was under the effect of Tramadol.
The accused must be found not guilty if his guilt has not been proved beyond reasonable doubt and that he is entitled to the benefit of any reasonable doubt I may have.
It follows from this:
First, if I believe the accused’s evidence, obviously I must acquit.
Secondly, if I have some difficulty accepting the accused’s evidence, but think it might be true, then I must acquit.
Thirdly, if I do not believe the accused’s evidence, then I should put it to one side. Nevertheless, the question will remain; has the Crown, upon the basis of evidence that I do accept, proved the accused’s guilt beyond reasonable doubt?
The accused, RE has not given any evidence in response to the Crown’s case.
The Crown bears the onus of satisfying me beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty of the offence charged.
The accused bears no onus of proof in respect of any fact that is in dispute. Although an accused person is entitled to give or call evidence in a criminal trial, there is no obligation upon him to do so. He is presumed to be innocent until I have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt by the evidence led by the Crown that he is guilty of the offence charged. Therefore, it follows that the accused is entitled to say nothing and make the Crown prove his guilt to the high standard required.
The accused’s decision not to give evidence cannot be used against him in any way at all during the course of my deliberations. That decision cannot be used by me as amounting to an admission of guilt. I must not draw any inference or reach any conclusion based upon the fact that the accused decided not to give evidence. I cannot use that fact to fill any gaps that I might think exist in the evidence tendered by the Crown. It cannot be used in any way as strengthening the Crown case or in assisting the Crown to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt.
I must not speculate about what might have been said in evidence if the accused, RE had given evidence before me.
The accused has called evidence to establish that he is a person of good character That evidence has not been challenged by the Crown. Therefore I should accept the fact that the accused is a person of good character, in the following respects:-
(a) He has no criminal history of offending. (b) He is considered absolutely trustworthy by family members. (c) He is highly regarded by friends and colleagues in the teaching profession as a man of high moral values and as a teacher of mathematics. He has had unsupervised access to teenage girls in both his personal and professional life.
The law provides that I am entitled to take evidence of an accused’s good character into account in favour of them on the question of whether the Crown has proved the accused’s guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The fact that the accused is a person of good character is relevant to the likelihood of their having committed the offence alleged. I can take into account the accused’s good character by reasoning that such a person is unlikely to have committed the offence charged by the Crown. Whether I do reason in that way is a matter for me.
Further, I can use the fact that the accused is a person of good character to support his credibility. I may reason that a person of good character is less likely to lie or give a false account, in giving an account of the events in answer to questions asked by the police. Whether I reason in that way is a matter for me to determine.
None of this means, of course, that good character provides the accused with some kind of defence. It is only one of the many factors which I am to take into account in determining whether I am satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of the guilt of the accused. What weight I give to the fact that the accused is a person of good character is completely a matter for me. In addition, I should keep in mind the fact that a person who has previously been of good character can commit an offence for the first time.
In this case, Dr Antonio Fernando, Dr Richard Furst, Dr Jeremy O’Dea and Dr Pieternel Van Nieuwenhuijzen were called as expert witnesses. An expert witness is a person who has specialised knowledge based on that person’s training, study or experience. Unlike other witnesses, a witness with such specialised knowledge may express an opinion within his or her particular area of expertise. Other witnesses may speak only as to the facts, that is, what they saw or heard and are not permitted to express their opinions.
Of course, the value of any expert opinion is very much dependent on the reliability and accuracy of the material which the expert used to reach his or her opinion. It is also dependent upon the degree to which the expert analysed the material upon which the opinion was based and the skill and experience brought to bear in formulating the opinion given. Experts can differ in the level and degree of their experience, training and study, yet each can still be an expert qualified to give an opinion where the opinion is based on that witness’s specialised knowledge.
Expert evidence is admitted to provide me with scientific information relating to sexsomnia, namely whether the accused suffered from a form of parasomnia, namely sexsomnia, at the time of the alleged offence and an opinion on that particular topic was within Dr Fernando, Dr Furst and Dr O’Dea’s expertise and information about the drug, Tramadol, a topic within Dr Fernando and Dr Van Nieuwenhuijzen’s expertise. It is likely to be outside the experience and knowledge of the average lay person.
The expert evidence is before me as part of all the evidence to assist me in determining whether the touching took place by the accused on the complainant and, if so, whether it was a conscious, voluntary and deliberate act by the accused. I should bear in mind that if, having given the matter careful consideration, I do not accept the evidence of Dr Fernando, Dr Furst, Dr O’Dea or Dr Van Nieuwenhuijzen, I do not have to act upon it. This is particularly so where the facts upon which the opinion is based do not accord with the facts as I find them to be. I am also, to a degree, entitled to take into account my own commonsense and my own experiences if they are relevant to the issue upon which the expert evidence relates.
In order for an accused to be convicted of a crime, his or her act (giving rise to the unlawful conduct) must be voluntary.
Where an act (otherwise criminal) is done in a state of automatism, that is, without control or direction of the will of the accused over what is being done, then no crime is committed and the accused must be found “not guilty”. Here automatism raises itself for my consideration because of aspects of the evidence of the complainant MG, GE, NG, and Emad Giurgus which may lead me to conclude that the accused was asleep at the time of the conduct alleged in Count 1, or that he was woken up by his wife to answer a phone call immediately after the conduct alleged in Count 1.
Further, in a record of interview the accused denied that any misconduct occurred but said that if it did occur that it happened while he was asleep. Dr Fernando, Dr Furst and Dr O’Dea expressed expert opinions that on the material they reviewed, sexsomnia was a probable explanation for the conduct alleged by MG, if it did occur.
Although the defence has raised this issue for me to consider, this does not mean that it is the accused who bears the onus of proving that his act was done in a state of automatism. It is for the Crown to prove beyond reasonable doubt that all of the ingredients of the offence were present, and one of these is the requirement that the act was voluntary.
It is therefore for the Crown to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the acts of the accused were voluntary, that is, it is for the Crown to remove any reasonable doubt from my mind as to whether the accused was acting as an automaton, divested of the control and direction of his will over what he was doing at the time of the offending conduct.
Automatism in this case does not involve any question of mental health impairment or cognitive impairment. It is concerned with involuntariness, which does not derive from any of those conditions.
To summarise, unless the Crown proves beyond reasonable doubt that the acts of the accused were subject to the control and direction of his will, then he must be acquitted because no offence has been committed.
In this case the Crown case in relation to Count 1 is largely based on the evidence of the complainant. There is evidence of complaint to other Crown witnesses, those being Preetham Jalady and NG. There is also evidence of complaint to DM who was not called as a Crown witness.
However, in relation to the direct allegation of sexual touching in Count 1 the complainant is the sole witness.
I must take care when assessing the evidence of the complainant, as in order to prove the case to the required standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, I must also accept her as a truthful and reliable witness to that standard in relation to the elements of the offence.
In doing so, I would also assess the complainant’s evidence to inquire whether there is any evidence to support her evidence generally, such as what she said in her complaints and the version she gave to others.
(i) I must also consider if there is evidence that does not support her account. The defence has pointed to 7 factors which it says creates a doubt as to the acceptability of the complainant’s evidence: (ii) The manner in which the complainant alleges the conduct took place. (iii) The failure of GE and NG to notice anything resembling the conduct alleged by the complainant, despite being in the adjacent bed, a very short distance for the entire period when Count 1 is said to have occurred. (iv) The impact of the complainant’s evidence about Exhibit 2 having a detrimental impact on the complainant’s credit. (v) The asserted existence of a motive to lie, also arising from the complainant’s evidence relating to Exhibit 2. (vi) The way in which the complainant’s evidence regarding the acquittal count must impact my assessment of her credibility. (vii) The plausibility of the accused being able to manoeuvre his arm in the way described by the complainant. (viii) The evidence suggesting the accused was actually asleep at the time the complainant says the conduct relating to Count 1 was occurring.
The accused was previously charged with a second count of digitally penetrating MG, said to have occurred minutes after the allegation comprising Count 1 in this trial.
He was convicted of that count at trial. That conviction was quashed and an acquittal was entered by the Court of Criminal Appeal.
The reasons for that acquittal are set out in RE v R [2024] NSWCCA 180, a copy of which is annexed to the agreed facts in this matter.
The accused is entitled to the full benefit of this acquittal: The Queen v Storey (1978) 140 CLR 364, 372-373.
The evidence relating to that count has been entered into evidence in this trial in largely the same terms as it was lead in the first trial. I cannot use that evidence in any way that might call into question or overturn or tend to overturn that acquittal: The Queen v Carroll (2002) 213 CLR 635, 648.
In this case the acquittal of the accused by the Court of Criminal Appeal and the reasons of the court means that:
I must proceed on the basis that the accused did not commit the offence of which he was acquitted.
Further, I must accept that the complainant’s version of the acquittal count was demonstrated, with reference to objective evidence, to be significantly undermined, and unable to be reconciled with objective evidence in the trial: RE v R [2024] NSWCCA 180 at [108] and [123]-[124].
I must ascertain the reasons for the acquittal as far as those reasons can be ascertained and ensure I do not make findings in opposition to those reasons.
Markuleski
The Court of Criminal Appeal found the accused not guilty in the acquittal count. I need to assess whether the accused was acquitted of the acquittal count because of doubts about the reliability of the complainant’s evidence. If I conclude that there are such doubts, I have to consider how that conclusion affects my consideration of the remaining count, the count on the Indictment.
Giving separate consideration to the individual counts means that I am entitled to bring in a verdict of guilty on the trial count notwithstanding that the Court of Criminal Appeal found him not guilty of the acquittal count if there is a logical reason for that outcome.
Exhibit H was a statement of agreed facts between the parties which I am bound to accept as follows:-
MG (the complainant) was born on 20 May 2006.
The accused’s family and the G family were very close family friends. As at 22 January 2023, the complainant referred to the accused as “Uncle R.”
The accused’s family, the G family and other families from their church went on holiday together to stay at the Mantra Hotel at Ettalong Beach between 20 January 2021 and 26 January 2021.
On the evening of 22 January 2021, the complainant and her mother NG went to the accused’s hotel room. The accused and his wife, GE, were in the room when they arrived.
Between 8:40pm and 8:56pm, as recorded on the Instagram exchange, the complainant took part in an Instagram exchange with her boyfriend at the time, DM. A summary of that exchange was attached as Annexure “A” and is an annexure to this judgment.
At 8:46:42pm, the witness Emad Guirguis called the accused’s phone. He did not answer. The accused called back at 8:47:08pm and spoke with him. The phone call lasted for one minute and two seconds.
At 8:55:00pm the witness Emad Guirguis called the accused again. This call lasted for one minute and 23 seconds.
The reference to the times and duration of the phone calls in paragraphs 6 and 7 above are from the phone records of the accused obtained in the course of the investigation.
On 2 February 2021 at 4:22pm, the accused sent a message via text to RG. The message was in Arabic, translated to English the message reads as follows:
One time two years ago I was sleeping next to S, I thought she was *GE. I placed my hand on her she said dad it’s me S, I’*m afraid this is what may have happened to MG and your value to me is greater than for me to think to do this, if this even happened, because I was on Trumadol, because of my shoulder and you may know that this medication increases sexual drive a lot and causes you to be outside your consciousness, especially because I don’t use it unless on rare occasion, because I know it can be addictive. You NG and the kids are valuable to me as you know, I’m sorry if I caused you to become upset and I’m truly saddened by you been upset. And I would not have hoped for this to be in this situation. I did not go to sleep next to MG or was chasing her everywhere. She was the one that came and slept behind me. And so, the situation is really a coincidence if this is what even happened. I have not been able to sleep since yesterday and I’m sure you also. Please RG believe me because I promise on S’s life that nothing has happened by me and if it had happened then it’s as I have explained.
Accuracy of timestamps
(a) When the Instagram messages were sent and/or received; and (b) When the phone calls were made and/or received, and (c) The time of the calls referred to in Agreed Facts [6] and [7].
Previous Acquittal
1.Grant leave to appeal to the extent necessary on ground 1 and ground 2.
2. Allow the appeal.
3. Quash the appellant’s convictions on counts 1 and 2.
4. In lieu thereof enter a verdict of acquittal on count 2 and order a new trial on count 1.
5. List the matter in the arraignments list in the District Court at Gosford on 3 October 2024 or as otherwise directed by that Court.
The matter before this Court is the new trial on count 1 referred to in the NSW Court of Criminal Appeal’s orders.
The Court’s reasons in RE v R [2024] NSWCCA 180 are annexed to this Agreed Facts document as Annexure B.
The complainant was 14 years of age at the time of her police record of interview, and 17 years of age when she gave evidence at the first trial. I am mindful that the evidence in relation to Count 2 at that trial was found to be unreliable as it did not correlate to the timing of the phone calls and Instagram messages, thus leading to an acquittal on Count 2.
The Court of Criminal Appeal’s finding of unreliability does not necessarily affect the complainant’s reliability concerning Count 1, which is consistent with the Court of Criminal Appeal’s decision to remit the matter for re-trial. In R v Carroll (2002) 213 CLR 635; [2002] HCA 55 the High Court described the principle of incontrovertibility as meaning that “the acquittal may not be questioned or called in question by any evidence which, if accepted, would overturn or tend to overturn the verdict” per Barwick CJ at [37]. In The Queen v Storey (1978) 140 CLR 364, his Honour stated at 372:-
“A verdict of acquittal shall not be challenged in a subsequent trial; the accused in a hearing of a subsequent charge must be given the full benefit of his acquittal on the earlier occasion. Evidence which was admissible to establish the earlier offence is, in my opinion not inadmissible merely because it was tendered in the earlier proceedings: but it may not be used for the purpose of challenging, or diminishing the benefit to the accused of, the acquittal.”
His Honour went on to state that where evidence that would tend to prove the earlier charge is admitted in a subsequent trial the jury must be duly warned that they must accept the fact of the earlier acquittal and not use the evidence in any way to reconsider the guilt of the accused of the earlier offence or to question or discount the effect of the acquittal.
The Court of Criminal Appeal held that in the first trial the complainant’s evidence in respect of Count 2 was tied, inextricably, to the Instagram messages that she said she was sending DM as the events were occurring. This led to a finding that her evidence concerning Count 2 was unreliable because it could not be reconciled with the timing of the phone calls in the agreed facts at the time the accused got out of the bed and spoke to Mr Guirguis on the phone. This finding led to an ultimate finding that the verdict on Count 2 was unreasonable and that the appellant should be acquitted on that count (see [124]). The Court went on to find that the same result does not inexorably follow on Count 1, as the complainant’s evidence was not directly impacted by the timing issue that affected her evidence on Count 2 (at [125]).
I have, in accordance with the direction pursuant to Ewen v R above, given careful consideration to her evidence, making appropriate allowances for her age and the statutory directions I have given myself. Through that prism, I am not satisfied that the Instagram messages in Exhibit 2 provide a foundation for the complainant to lie or provide a motive for her to do so in making the allegation in Count 1.
Notwithstanding that she was somewhat evasive about whether DM was hurt or offended by her messages, that does not erode her credibility as a witness generally and I find that she did give a truthful account as to what occurred when she was on the bed, under the covers, and next to the accused, and that her evidence in relation to Count 1 was reliable.
I am satisfied that her evidence is supported by the messages in Exhibit H, Annexure A between 8:40 p.m. and 8:42 p.m., and I accept her explanation for not disclosing immediately what happened, i.e., that the accused’s wife was her mother’s best friend and that she did not want to ruin the holiday. Her complaint to DM and to Preetham Jalady give some support to her version, and their evidence and that of her mother also support her credibility. In coming to that finding, I do not accept the Crown submissions that the evidence of the complainant in respect of Count 2 was honestly mistaken or that her evidence regarding the photo in Exhibit B was “understandably uncertain”. I also reject the Crown submission that a finding should be made that the photo in Exhibit B was, in fact, the third photo sent by the complainant. There is no basis in the evidence on which such a finding could be made, and I accept the submission on behalf of the accused that it was an attempt to recast the Crown case so as to fit with the objective evidence concerning the timing of the photos and phone calls.
I am satisfied that GE was doing her best to give truthful evidence, including evidence of her intimate relationship with the accused over a period of some 30 years. I have taken into account that the accused was her only sexual partner, and there are cultural and religious factors that both inform and colour her life experience and recollection. I therefore reject the Crown’s submission that her evidence should not be accepted.
I am not so satisfied about the evidence of NG. At times, notwithstanding that she had the benefit of an Arabic interpreter to translate for her, she was evasive in her evidence. I find that her evidence was unreliable in important respects. For example, she did not remember where the accused was in the hotel room when she arrived. She did not remember what position he was lying in on the bed, or whether he moved at all during the time she was there. Nor could she remember if he engaged in any conversation when she was in the room. She gave incorrect evidence concerning the accused answering the phone when Mr Guirguis first called. Further, she did not remember where the accused picked the phone up from and could not remember any conversation that took place. Further, she gave evidence that she didn’t know but asserted that the accused was watching TV and was not asleep when she couldn’t see his face.
NG also disavowed evidence given by her in the previous trial that GE woke the accused up to answer the phone call from Mr Guirguis, stating that it was a mistake and that she didn’t mean it. She gave evidence that when she said, “She woke him up”, “I meant she asked him to get up”. She contended that this was the fault of the interpreter. I found her evidence concerning whether the accused was asleep or not was unreliable. This was clearly an important issue in the trial of which she was aware, and I do not accept her explanation for her inconsistent prior evidence that she observed the accused to be asleep by stating that the interpreter provided an incorrect translation.
Otherwise, each of the witnesses who gave evidence before me were doing their best to give truthful evidence, notwithstanding some faulty recollection of events e.g. whether the phone rang once or twice when Mr Guirguis rang the accused’s phone. I accept Mr Guirguis’ evidence that when he first called the accused, he did not answer but that the accused called him back shortly afterwards, as reflected in the agreed facts in Exhibit H.
Of those witnesses whose evidence was dealt with by way of tendering the transcript, no submission was made by either party that their credit was in issue. I have therefore accepted their evidence as being reliable. I also accept the evidence, that was not challenged by the Crown, that the accused is a man of good character and that his good character may be taken into account on the question of whether the Crown has proved his guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
Having found the complainant’s evidence of what occurred reliable, I find that the accused did touch her on her left upper leg and thigh with his right hand, and that he touched her vagina on the outside of the shorts she was wearing under her dress. I am therefore satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the first element of the offence in Count 1 is proved, and the accused sexually touched the complainant. I am not satisfied that with reference to his shoulders, the accused suffered any physical impediment in his capacity to do so.
I am also satisfied that the accused was asleep immediately before his phone rang when Mr Guirguis called him, that the accused was woken by his wife and that the accused then got out of bed and called Mr Guirguis back. I accept the timing of those phone calls meant that he was asleep at the time he sexually touched the complainant. I find that he therefore did not do so voluntarily or intentionally.
I also accept the evidence of the three experts, Dr Fernado, Dr Furst and Dr O’Dea, that at the time of the touching the accused was suffering from a parasomnia known as sexsomnia. In coming to that conclusion I have taken into account the following:-
The history given by the accused’s wife as to sexual intercourse occurring when the accused was asleep and other sexual conduct while he was asleep, over a period of 15 years.
The marked differences in the accused’s conduct on each occasion compared to his conduct when awake and conscious.
His lack of memory of such occasions.
His history of sleepwalking and other activities whilst asleep e.g. the evidence concerning an incident when he touched his daughter on an occasion when she was asleep next to him.
The accused’s assertion that he was asleep at the time, and the fact that the touching occurred after a period of about 45 minutes, in which the accused had the opportunity to fall into a deep sleep.
Mr Guirguis’ evidence concerning the accused falling asleep in public places.
Dr Fernando’s positive findings in respect of the Buchanan checklist which led to his conclusion that sexsomnia is a probable explanation for the touching that occurred.
The conclusions reached by Dr Furst and Dr O’Dea that Dr Fernando’s conclusion was correct.
Giving full effect to the directions of law that I have given myself, I find that there was a reasonable possibility that the accused was suffering from sexsomnia at the time of the sexual touching and that the Crown has not established beyond reasonable doubt that he was not.
I am not satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the second element of the offence is established and therefore the Crown case must fail.
On Count 1 on the Indictment there will be a verdict of not guilty.
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R
RE [2026] NSWDC 21
(2002) 213 CLR 635
(1978) 140 CLR 364