"Mr Rees, this is the vice of running a business in the way that you do, where you don't believe in having too many formal documents?
---I have - I'm the most documented person in this case. Just listen to me, Mr Rees. One might think that in relation to operating a business, from the interests of Sietel and Aqua-Max, there'd be some document which would be evidence of the relationship between the parties concerning the hiring of the plant and equipment, there's absolutely nothing and after a while one starts to think why not, a well conducted business would have such a document, with some evidence of the hiring arrangement?
---It is, it's the - I'm a very well documented person and I wouldn't like to dispute, but if you look at the other party, he had nothing, I am very well documented, I've thousands of files, I've got a reputation for documenting things, I'm very meticulous in the way I document things. Let me just continue the point. I put that point to you, you then say well look, there's nothing in writing about this understanding of
what - - - ?---No, I didn't - I explained why we didn't put it in writing. What Sietel would be expected to get back on its loan account, well, again - - - ?---No, because it retained - see, you don't - if we could put that in writing, we could say Sietel agrees to pass all this asset ownership over, agrees to a long term lease and agrees to the personnel, Sietel would have to agree to that on the basis that it gets the subsidies back, we could have put that in writing, or I put it as an understanding for some good reason, it wasn't just because I forgot about it, it it's thought through, people have in the past documented things, understandings, and got into trouble with tax, and I'm thinking well, I've got to be careful by - by thing, so.we'll keep it as an understanding, the directors are all there, we're quite entitled to have an understanding and we haven't got a tax liability. To put it down in black and white registered document, there is a risk of a significant tax liability, would send both companies broke maybe, so we have an understanding, but it's supported, Sietel's support is they retain the employment of the personnel, they retain the ownership of the assets, and that's well documented, I've put all vouchers out to support that and they retain the ownership of the building with no future lease commitment on it, no long term lease, they could do it, that is - that's how I get Sietel to agree to it, so the Sietel directors say, I say to the Sietel directors, this is the security I'm giving you in this understanding, I'm giving you very good support, you control the personnel that control this business, you control the building and control the assets. On Aqua-Max side I say, well, Aqua-Max, yes, you've missed out on those things, they were all controlled by Sietel but I'm giving you survival, I'm giving you subsidies and if you've got a better alternative, we've got a better alternative, we'll go elsewhere." (Emphasis added.)