[67] Ms Fan said that Mr Camp had offered to give Channel 7 a story that he had broken into a filing cabinet and how he broke into it. He told her they had unscrewed a shelf so that the bottom file would fall out and they were able to get the Will, 'and how Lang Hancock's hand was held to sign the codicil or some document, but he would be prepared to tell us. This had not become public knowledge but in return he would want some money because he was desperate for money'.
[68] Ms Fan said she had taped the initial conversation and said to Mr Camp that she would approach the Eastern States headquarters to find out whether 'we could pay it'. The tapes which Ms Fan had made were given to the Coroner. She said there were at least two tapes. She said Mr Camp was 'really emotional and upset because he didn't think he could get through the weekend; that he couldn't feed the kids; he couldn't meet a mortgage; that Gina was threatening to take his car away from him ...'.
[69] Ms Fan said that they were prepared to pay $50,000. Mr Camp had told her that 60 Minutes would pay him $100,000 or more and that magazines would also pay more. She said she had wanted a witness, so she went to Mr Camp's office in London Court with Mr Roy Gibson from the West Australian Newspaper. Ms Fan said she thought she might have been set up so she wanted Mr Gibson there to hear what happened. She had also taped the conversation. She said the price being asked went up to like about $1,000,000 'and then he was talking like he wanted it offshore. He wanted it in American dollars'. Her contacts had said 'We can't deal with offshore stuff and American dollars'.
[70] Ms Fan said the whole idea was that 'he was just desperate for money and needed the money'. Ms Fan said that the information about how the Will had been taken and the desk broken into, had come out - 'they wanted him to put in a statement as well as the tape stuff'. She said that at the time Mr Camp was quite emotional 'and I think when we went up to him he was a bit emotional, because I asked him what was wrong with him and he just said that he just couldn't carry on because Gina was doing stuff'. Later on he had told Ms Fan that Mrs Rinehart had changed her attitude and 'I don't know if I will go through with it now because Gina has come good. She has given me some money, paid me some money, has not taken the car away from me now ...'.
[71] Ms Fan said 'And then it just sort of went away. I don't think we followed it up. It started to get too bizarre with all this offshore money stuff, and he didn't follow through'. Ms Fan said 'The story was .... with Gina; that was going to blow her out of the water that we were interested in and it wasn't because she was suing us. We were interested in it as a story'.
[72] Ms Fan referred to 'the frantic call that I got from him when he was very emotional'. He needed the money immediately and 'can you get it ... I need it like this weekend'.
[73] Ms Fan said '... but the one time that he was adamant was definitely over a weekend because he said he could not get through the weekend and he was - he wasn't sure. He sounded suicidal. He was talking about stuff that he - you know, life; life wasn't worth living at all, sort of stuff. He was very emotional'.
[74] It was put to Ms Fan that what Mr Camp had wanted to talk to her about was his knowledge of the personal relationships between Mr Hancock and Mrs Rinehart because he had known them as a family friend over 20 years. Ms Fan's answer was 'Absolutely not. That wouldn't be worth a cent'.
[75] Mr Gilmour put a transcript of the telephone conversations to Ms Fan and then put it to her that the kind of information that Mr Camp was prepared to discuss and to consider giving, had related to personal relationships involving members of the Hancock Family. Ms Fan's answer was 'No ..., part of, yes. Part of that with the break-in is the big story'. She said 'a night time, after hours break-in, was what he told me from the first time. It was the only thing that interested us. The other relationship was coming out everywhere. Rose was talking her head off. Nothing of that was new. What was new was that Alan said that he got some handyman to go in after hours, at night-time, to break-in ..... and I said how did you do it?' Ms Fan then went on to say '... and then Lang Hancock's hand was held to - that was the crux of the story. That was the only story...'.
[76] When asked what Hancock's hand had to do with it, Ms Fan's answer was 'to change the Will; to sign a change of the Will. They took it. They photocopied it and then he changed the Will. That was a big story'.
[77] Ms Fan said that Mr Camp had rang her and said 'I have got a great story for you, the break-in story, night-time, break-in'. That was his story. I was not interested in relationships. Ms Fan repeated that Mr Camp had rung her and amongst other things said 'I have had a falling out ... but I have got some information that will blow Gina out of the water' and I said 'what's that?' and he said 'It is to do with the break-in' and I said 'what break-in'. He said how he got a handyman etc. She knew the details about how Mr Camp had taken the Will from the filing cabinet. She said 'I don't know how but he said Lang Hancock's hand was held to sign the codicil or whatever it was; the amendment'. Ms Fan had said to Mr Camp 'that is a fantastic story'. He said 'I want money for it because I need money'. She said Mr Camp had said 'This has never come out before. It's a good story'. He had said 'But I need money. I have got to be paid'. Ms Fan said that Mr Camp had not asked for a million dollars first up but that 'after he did, yes, that's why we all backed away. We were willing to pay the $50 000'.
[78] It is our view that Ms Fan's evidence was straightforward and should be accepted. The fact that under cross-examination she remembered some of the things that were on the transcript is not surprising, given the kind of work she does and the number of interviews and stories she has been involved with.
[79] Mr Gibson was also called to give evidence. He said that he had gone to Mr Camp's office in London Court and that Mr Camp had nominated a figure which he thought was a million dollars. Mr Gibson said 'I think I made it pretty clear that the West just wouldn't be paying for any sort of story. I said it was of little interest or concern to me'.
[80] We accept Mr Gibson's evidence in its entirety.
[81] Mr Camp denied that he told Ms Fan that he had information which would blow Gina out of the water. He was asked whether he had fallen out with Gina Rinehart at that point of time. Mr Camp said that he had. Mr Camp said he did not know that too much turned on that as from just after Lang had died, he was involved in speaking to the press on numerous occasions. In some respects he was angry with Mrs Rinehart because she had created a problem. Mr Camp was in serious financial difficulties at the time. He had a large mortgage to pay and he did not have any means of paying it. He owed more than $300 000 on the mortgage.
[82] With respect to him asking for a million dollars when Mr Gibson was there, Mr Camp said 'I mean, well I may have, but I have no recollection of it. I would be very surprised if I said I wanted $1,000,000 but I may have'. If he had said it, it was most certainly 'tongue in cheek'. If he had said it 'tongue in cheek' he would have thought it would have been taken 'tongue in cheek'.
[83] Mr Camp admitted that he had spoken to representatives of Channel 7 and 9. He thought that Ms Broderick was the representative of Channel 9 he had spoken to. She was representing the Witness programme. They were wanting to do the story. Mr Camp had wanted a little bit of assistance from Ms Fan, 'sort of coaching assistance' as to what he might say and what might be something which would be a decent story that they would pay for, how much he should ask for, and so on. That had coincided with Ms Fan being a defendant in a defamation action of Ms Rinehart's. He said Ms Fan's attitude had been that Channel 7 might be interested too 'but I think her attitude was that if Channel 9 were going to be paying, Channel 7 would not as well'. He said 'Witness' had telephoned him about a story, and possibly '60 Minutes'. He would have thought it would be the same representative.
[84] Mr Camp said the desk story was already the subject of two stories in The West Australian and it was already published. He told the counsel Mr Heliotis, at the Inquest that one of the specific matters he was going to give the media, was details of the breaking into Hancock's office. He told Mr Heliotis that he would have told the real story about the break-in. He would tell them the whole story. Mr Camp said that he was going to tell them that Mr Hancock had told him to go and get the Will, which took the sensation out of the story. That is why he knew he was not going to get paid for it. The only story he knew he might get paid for would be a general story.
[85] Mr Camp remembered telling the Coroner that in his wildest imagination he would not get more than one quarter of a million in relation to the stories. Mr Camp said that there were about 30 points to his story, from right back to the early days of travel with Mr Hancock, 'young politicians who are you know Deputy Prime Minister' and so on; 'there is probably about 30 points that one might concoct a series of stories over, bearing in mind that there was some public interest in all this at the time'. Mr Camp said that he had not on three separate occasions been prepared to sell a story about the desk incident for money.
[86] In cross-examination, Mr Camp said 'You have got to know that these discussions were very tentative. I never got anywhere. I never believed that they were ever going to get anywhere ... '. Mr Camp denied telling Ms Fan that Mr Hancock's hand was held. He also denied ever saying that he was desperate for money. He qualified that by saying he did not think so. He said 'I do not think I did.' He said he definitely did not talk about how Mr Hancock's hand was held to sign a codicil or some document. He denied that he originally asked for $50,000 but later sought a greater amount because other media outlets were prepared to pay for the story. He said 'No, there was never any bidding going on'.
[87] We believe Ms Fan's evidence generally. We do not accept Mr Camp's evidence where it conflicts with hers in important respects.
[88] When asked whether he had originally asked for $50,000 but later sought a greater amount because other media outlets were prepared to pay him more for the story, he said 'No, definitely not'. He admitted that the bank was threatening to sell him up at the time. He said he had not asked Mrs Rinehart if he could go to the press but that they had talked about it previously. He said he did not talk to her regarding his approaches to Channel 7 and Channel 9 and said that he did not need to.
[89] When Mr Heliotis was representing Mrs Rose Porteous (formerly Mrs Hancock) at the Coroner's Inquest he asked Mr Camp whether he had asked the media for $1,000,000, Mr Heliotis said that a tape existed of it. Mr Gilmour asked Mr Camp whether a transcript of such a conversation was ever produced by Mr Heliotis or anyone representing Mrs Porteous to the Coroner. The answer was No.
[90] It was put to Mr Camp that Mr Heliotis had said 'Now I ask you again, did you ask for $1,000,000 to be invested in an off-shore account'. Mr Camp answered 'Well, I will fall over if there is a tape of that because I have no recollection of it'. He was then asked did he ask for US$1,000,000 for his story. He said 'No, I am positive'. When he was asked if part of what he was offering to sell were the details of the break-in and other matters, he said 'No, it was probably the full story'.
[91] Before the Tribunal, Mr Camp said 'the full story was the full account of all the stories that Lang had given to him and all the interesting stories that went on'. Mr Camp admitted that one of the specific matters he was going to give the media was details of the breaking in to Mr Hancock's desk. Mr Camp said that at the time he spoke to Mrs Fan, the desk incident was public knowledge. That was prior to Ms Fan ringing him about, amongst other things, that incident. Mr Camp said he knew Mrs Rinehart was quite happy for him to deal with the press in return for money or to be paid for any interviews that he had given. He said he had talked to her about it early on and there was also discussion about the possibility of him writing a book. A publishing company in Sydney had been involved. He said he talked to Mrs Rinehart about that and she had said 'Yes, you can do it'. Mr Camp said it was too hard, in the sense that it was too time consuming. There was never any question that she was quite happy he was to write. The only things she would not want him to disclose were personal matters including the lives of her children or other intimacies.
[92] A submission was made for the practitioner that this complaint cannot be sustained as there was no evidence that the practitioner was to publish material that was confidential or material which he did not have permission to publish. We do not accept that submission.
[93] The practitioner was obviously desperate for money and intended to release confidential information concerning his clients and the Hancock family which information he had obtained whilst he was working for them as a practitioner.
[94] Mr Gilmour submitted that the evidence of Ms Fan in chief was thoroughly discredited. We do not accept that submission. In our opinion Ms Fan answered as best she could when the transcript was put to her. It was not established that she was in any way making up her evidence.
[95] The submission that there was no evidence that the practitioner intended to publish material which was in fact confidential and which he did not have permission to publish, was not established. The practitioner offered to publish much information about the family for whom he had been acting as a solicitor. In all the circumstances, in our opinion, that information was confidential .
[96] Particular 3 of the complaint specifically says that the information was 'relating to various matters including but not limited to legal proceedings then on foot between Mrs Rinehart or Hancock Prospecting Pty Ltd on the one hand and Mrs Rose Porteous or interests associated with her on the other'.
[97] It was put to the practitioner that he had offered to sell a story regarding the break-in and the signing of the codicil. He denied this. We accept the evidence of Ms Fan concerning that matter.
[98] It was submitted that the practitioner was not cross-examined as to whether he had the permission of Mrs Rinehart to reveal the whole story and that the fact that he had such permission was confirmed in the statement of Mrs Rinehart; also that he had discussed writing a book on the Hancock family with Mrs Rinehart.
[99] We do not accept that Mrs Rinehart's evidence exculpates the practitioner. We accept Ms Fan's evidence that at the time he first discussed the matter with her, the practitioner was obviously severely troubled and extremely worried about his financial position. He had allegedly been cut off by Mrs Rinehart.
[100] The submission that the reference cannot be sustained, as there is no evidence the practitioner was to publish material which was in fact confidential which he did not have permission to publish, in our view is not substantiated. The opposite is the correct version.
[101] Mr Camp admitted that he had approached Channel 7 and Channel 9. He admits that he did so without first obtaining the authority of his clients. Mr Zilko said the issue was that he denied that he had offered to speak in such interviews about matters of a confidential nature.
[102] We would say that if Mr Camp offered 'to blow Gina out of the water' as Ms Fan said he had done, then that speaks for itself. He was acting for Mrs Rinehart. He had known her and acted for her at times as a lawyer up to and including the period after her father's death. He had acted for her as a lawyer after she took over from her father in February 1992.
[103] As already stated we do not agree that Ms Fan's evidence was 'thoroughly discredited'. We are satisfied that Mr Camp told Ms Fan that he would tell her about how he broke into Mr Hancock's desk and how Mr Hancock's hand was held to sign a codicil 'or some document'. We are also satisfied that he said he would do this for money because he was desperate for money.
[104] Mr Camp agreed at the hearing that he had fallen out with Mrs Rinehart. He also said that in the Coronial proceedings. He admitted that he was angry with her. She had 'cut off' his finances. He admitted he was in trouble financially. He offered to sell what we think is obviously confidential information about the family, both with respect to their private lives and legal affairs. He said that he did not know how much he had asked for but 'I imagined it was tied to how much I owed the bank'. He said that his mortgage was in excess of $300 000.
[105] We agree with Mr Zilko that the offer to tell about Mr Hancock's hand having to be held to sign a codicil or some document is a very important and serious matter.
[106] Mr Gibson said he heard Mr Camp say that Mr Camp wanted a million dollars. We accept Mr Gibson's evidence in total. We accept that Mr Camp told Alison Fan that he was desperate for money. We also agree that he was in some sense talking about the money being placed offshore. Towards the end of the saga, he told Ms Fan that 'Gina has come good' and that he did not know if he would go through with it because 'Gina had come good'. He told Ms Fan that Mrs Rinehart had given him some money and had not taken the car from him. We accept that he was quite detailed in his requests to Ms Fan concerning who would pay the most money to him for the story.
[107] It was put to Ms Fan on a number of occasions that what Mr Camp really wanted to talk about were the personal relationships within the family. Her answer was 'Absolutely not, that wouldn't be worth a cent'. Ms Fan said that was not how the proposition was presented to her.
[108] Ms Fan's attitude was that the break-in was the big story. Mr Camp told her how he had broken into the drawer. Ms Fan said that the information from Mr Camp that Mr Hancock's hand was held 'was a big story'.
[109] We accept Ms Fan's evidence that when Mr Camp originally discussed the matter he told her he had a great story for her or words to that effect. We accept that Mr Camp said to Ms Fan words to the effect that 'I want money for it because I need money'.
[110] We agree with Mr Zilko's submissions that when she was reminded of them by Mr Gilmour, Ms Fan was prepared to concede matters she had forgotten. We accept Mr Zilko's submission that Mr Camp had no authority express or implied to disclose the information about the office desk and the signing of the codicil or another document to a media outlet for payment. We agree that it is a breach of solicitor and client confidence for a solicitor without the permission of the client to offer this kind of information to the media for payment.
[111] In this case, where it is alleged that the confidential information being offered to the media related to Mr Hancock and/or Mrs Rinehart and/or HPPL, we agree that it did. The three of those legal persons were involved with Mr Camp on a confidential basis and with what he did concerning the desk and the Will. Mr Camp was engaged in matters concerning the three of those persons. It was their business, or matters relating to their business, which he was prepared to reveal to the media for money.
[112] Professional Conduct Rules 7.1 and 7.5 are in point in this matter. They require a practitioner to give undivided fidelity to his client's interests unaffected by the practitioner's own. He is not to use information obtained against his client's interests.
[113] We agree with Mr Zilko's proposition that if a practitioner learns something about his client which is adverse to the client's interests the practitioner does not have any right to tell anybody about it without the client's authority. That prohibition would include such things as the break-in to the desk and the alleged holding of Mr Hancock's hand in connection with the signing of the codicil to Will or some document - even if the client's hand was only shaking and had to be held. That type of matter should not be disclosed to the media for money. It does not matter whether the client was fully alert or not.
[114] We agree that the confidential information would not have to amount to something that was said by or to the client. It could be general information concerning the client's affairs including his bad health or the turbulent relationships within the family which he acquired by reason of his professional relationship with Mr Hancock, Mrs Rinehart and/or HPPL.
[115] The practitioner admitted that he spoke to representatives of Channel 7 and Channel 9 concerning selling his story to them. He admits doing it without first obtaining the authority of his clients to do so.
[116] Mr Gilmour said that this Tribunal should rely on the transcript as to what really happened between Mr Camp and Ms Fan. However, we do not think that proposition should be upheld. Ms Fan was quite clear as to how she was approached and what was said to her. We accept that evidence.
[117] We do not think the statement of Mrs Rinehart that Mr Camp had spoken to the media factually on the family's behalf and that she would have had no issue in certain circumstances if he could have persuaded the media to pay for factual information, legalises what he did. Moreover, the fact that Mr Hancock had died before the conversations with Ms Fan took place, in our view, is not fatal to the allegation of unprofessional conduct.
[118] We do not think that the fact that Ms Fan was in litigation with Mrs Rinehart detracted from the obvious truth of what she was telling the Tribunal. There is also the supporting evidence from Mr Gibson.
[119] This reference has been sustained.