Ground 7: unreasonable verdict
175For the purposes of considering ground 7 it is necessary to expand substantially upon the relatively brief outline of the Crown case that appears at the commencement of these reasons. It is convenient to approach this task generally chronologically. It is emphasised that the following account is drawn from evidence given in the Crown case. It is not intended to represent any findings of disputed fact.
176The appellant was born in March 1975, in Sydney. During the 1990s she lived with her parents in Fairlight, a suburb of Sydney near Manly. She was an enthusiastic and ambitious participant in the sport of water polo. Her ambitions extended to representing Australia in international competition, including the Olympic Games.
177In 1991, at about the age of 16 or 17, the appellant became romantically and sexually involved with a young man to whom we will refer as AT. Towards the end of 1992 the appellant became pregnant. She and AT made a joint decision to have the pregnancy terminated and this was done. Although the appellant was then living with her parents at Fairlight, they were unaware of the pregnancy, as were her friends.
178In November 1993, while the relationship with AT was continuing, the appellant again became pregnant. On this occasion, she did not inform AT of her pregnancy, and, again, did not inform her parents or friends. In March 1994 the pregnancy was terminated. Sometime in early 1994 the relationship with AT came to an end.
179In about May 1994 the appellant began a relationship with another man to whom we will refer as PR. The relationship was short lived, about six to eight weeks, but during that time the appellant again became pregnant. In late April 1994 the appellant began a relationship with Duncan Gillies. At that time Mr Gillies lived at Harbord or Freshwater. The appellant did not disclose her pregnancy to Mr Gillies, nor, again, to her parents or friends. Throughout this pregnancy the appellant maintained her usual and normal social and sporting activities. At about 10pm on 18 March 1995, after playing a competitive game of water polo, followed by socialising at a Balmain hotel, the appellant travelled alone to Balmain hospital. She was in labour. She told staff at Balmain Hospital that she was from Perth, where she had been planning to have the baby, and that she had been in Sydney for three weeks. She gave the name of a doctor who she said was a Perth obstetrician who had been caring for her. None of this was true.
180The appellant was transferred to King George V Hospital where, early the next morning, she gave birth to the daughter, to whom we have referred as TR. She told staff that she had had antenatal care in Perth, that her parents were in Perth, and that she had no social support in Sydney. None of this true. She gave an address at Harbord where she said she had been living. This was not true: she was living with her parents at Fairlight.
181While an inpatient at King George V Hospital the appellant made inquiries about surrendering TR for adoption. She was referred to the Centacare Adoption Agency where she saw a social worker, Ms Sheila Townsend. The appellant again gave a deal of false information, some of it replicating that which she had earlier given to King George V Hospital. She said that she had moved to Perth at the age of 13; she gave a Perth address at which she said her parents lived, and the names of a school and a university which she said she had attended; she repeated the (false) address at which she said she was living in Sydney, and gave a (false) contact telephone number; she said her parents were aware of her pregnancy and, although disappointed, were supportive of adoption. She said that the father of the child was Duncan Gillies, who she said was a footballer, and that he had indicated a willingness to sign adoption papers, but that he was currently working in the United Kingdom with plans to return in two weeks. She gave a (false) address at which she said Duncan Gillies lived, and said that she and he had moved to Sydney from Perth three weeks prior to the birth of the baby, and that Duncan Gillies had visited in hospital, and kissed and hugged the baby. Except that Duncan Gillies was a footballer, none of this was true.
182Duncan Gillies was, in fact, not the father of the baby. He knew nothing of the pregnancy, and had not visited the appellant in hospital and, of course, the couple had not recently moved to Sydney from Perth.
183The appellant was discharged on 23 March. TR was left in the care of the hospital. Over the ensuing days, the appellant had regular contact with Ms Townsend, who advised her of the need for Mr Gillies to be involved in the adoption decision. The appellant resisted this. She told Ms Townsend that she was under a lot of pressure from Mr Gillies because she had promised not to involve him. However, she also said that Mr Gillies had agreed to visit the adoption agency. When she next attended, however, she was alone, and said that Mr Gillies had been sent to Scotland to play rugby. She signed a general consent for adoption. On 3 April 1995 she swore an affidavit that again contained a number of false statements: she gave the same (false) address as she had previously given, she said that she had been living in a domestic relationship with Mr Gillies since November 1993, and that TR was a child of that relationship, and that Duncan Gillies had indicated his willingness to sign a consent for adoption, but was out of the country working in the United Kingdom. The false statements in the affidavit were the foundation for the first charge of perjury on the indictment.
184Ms Townsend attempted to contact the appellant and Mr Gillies by telephone at the number the appellant had given, and by writing to the address she had given. The appellant informed Ms Townsend that she and Mr Gillies had temporarily separated. She then attended Centacare, and told Ms Townsend that Mr Gillies was claiming that she had tricked him by telling him that he did not need to be involved. She said that she was staying with Mr Gillies' mother at an address she gave. On 29 April she swore a second affidavit giving a different (false) address, stating that she had separated from Mr Gillies who she again identified as the "birth father", and said that Mr Gillies had informed her that he did not wish to have any involvement with the child, or in the adoption. The false statements in this affidavit were the foundation for the second charge of perjury on the indictment.
185In April 1995 the appellant was one of 13 selected to compete in international water polo championships.
186Ms Townsend continued her efforts to locate and speak to Mr Gillies. She telephoned the number given to her by the appellant, and was told that Mr Gillies did not live at that address, and that the telephone number was not associated with the address that the appellant had given. The appellant attempted to explain this to Ms Townsend by saying that Mr Gillies was avoiding contact, and having his flatmate lie for him.
187In December 1995, while still in the relationship with Mr Gillies, the appellant again became pregnant. This was the pregnancy that resulted in the birth of Tegan. Once again, the appellant did not disclose the pregnancy to Mr Gillies, her parents, or her friends.
188In December 1995 Mr Gillies purchased a house at 10 Venus Street, Gladesville. The appellant continued to live with her parents at Fairlight, but spent several nights each week with Mr Gillies at the Venus Street house. They had regular sexual relations and they continued to socialise together. The appellant continued to play water polo at an elite level.
189Four times in September 1996 the appellant attended the Ryde Hospital in relation to the pregnancy. She told staff at that hospital that she had made arrangements for a home birth with a private midwife, that she lived in Perth and was "in transit", that her partner was in the United Kingdom, and she gave 70 Venus Avenue, Gladesville as her temporary address in Sydney. On the third visit she gave the name of her home birth midwife as Julie Melville for whom she nominated an incorrect contact telephone number. The appellant named "Kati Holt" as a contact person, again giving an incorrect telephone number.
190Julie Melville was Duncan Gillies' mother. She was a registered nurse. She was in fact a midwife, although not registered as such. She was not involved in the appellant's care and did not know that the appellant was pregnant. She did not know that the appellant had given birth.
191At about 4pm on 11 September 1996 the appellant attended Auburn Hospital where she gave similar information to that she had given to the Ryde Hospital. She gave the name of Duncan Gillies as a contact person. She said that she had been referred by her "home birth midwife", who she again named as Julie Melville.
192The appellant was admitted to the Auburn Hospital the following day, 12 September, and gave birth to Tegan on that day. On the following day, 13 September, nursing staff referred the appellant to a trainee social worker, Alicia Baltra-Vasquez. Ms Baltra-Vasquez took detailed notes of her consultations with the appellant. The appellant was referred to Ms Baltra-Vasquez because she was unaccompanied at the hospital, and had no apparent support. The appellant told her that she had planned to have the baby at home with the help of an independent midwife. She again said that she had been born in Perth, where her parents still lived. She said that the pregnancy was planned, and that she and her boyfriend had moved to Sydney a few months previously and had no family or close friends in this city. She said that it was intended that the boyfriend would be present at the birth, which was due on 30 August, but that, as the baby was late, her boyfriend was overseas playing football and was not able to be present. She told Ms Baltra-Vasquez that she planned to be discharged the following day, 14 September, and that "a lady" would stay with her until her parents arrived from Perth the following Tuesday, and that her boyfriend would arrive home from overseas on the Wednesday. Their plans were then to leave Sydney to live in London (where the boyfriend had rugby league commitments) "for a couple of years".
193Ms Baltra-Vasquez observed the appellant with Tegan present. She thought that "it looked like the normal mother and things", and made a note that the appellant:
"... is happy with her baby girl, breastfeeding her."
194It was not suggested that Ms Baltra-Vasquez's evidence was in any way inaccurate. The information provided to her by the appellant was, in many respects, untrue. The appellant had not been born in Perth. Her parents did not live in Perth but did, in fact, live in Fairlight in Sydney. Her boyfriend, Duncan Gillies, had had no part in the planning of the pregnancy and was unaware of it. He was also unaware of the birth of Tegan. He was not overseas playing rugby league at the time of the birth: two days later, on 14 September, he accompanied the appellant to a wedding in Manly.
195On 14 September 1996, at some time between 11am and 12 noon the appellant discharged herself from the hospital, taking Tegan with her. She did not submit Tegan for identification checks, as she had been requested to do. An Auburn Hospital nurse arranged for the appellant to be followed up by the Ryde Domiciliary Midwife Program.
196The appellant arrived at her parents' home at about 3pm on 14 September. She did not have Tegan with her. Mr Gillies arrived shortly after, and the appellant's mother drove the couple to a wedding at Manly. Mr Gillies noticed nothing untoward about the appellant's behaviour.
197On 16 September the appellant telephoned the Ryde Domiciliary Midwife Program to inform them that she would not be needing their services. She said that her "home birth midwife" would take over her care. No midwife made contact with Auburn Hospital, as would have been expected.
198On 19 September Tegan was enrolled on the appellant's Medicare card. No claim for medical or pharmaceutical expenses for her has ever been made.
199The appellant and Duncan Gillies continued in their relationship until about March 1998, when they separated. In the second half of 1998, the appellant began a relationship with another man, to whom we will refer as AH. The appellant was still living with her parents at Fairlight. In August of that year the appellant was again pregnant. She did not tell AH of her pregnancy, nor did she tell her parents or her friends. In February 1999 she sought advice, in Brisbane, with respect to the termination of the pregnancy, but was told that the pregnancy was too far advanced. The appellant gave her parents' address, and her correct date of birth. She said that she was separated, occupied in home duties, and a mother. Much of this was untrue.
200On 21 May 1999 the appellant was admitted to Ryde Hospital, telling staff she was 39 weeks pregnant. She gave the name of Lisa Andreatta as an emergency contact person. She told staff at Ryde Hospital that she had been booked into the Royal Women's Hospital in Brisbane for the birth, and had received antenatal care at that hospital; she was currently in Sydney with an older child and was not accompanied by any other family member; that she had breast fed her baby girl born at Auburn for six months; that she was living with friends at 10 Venus Street, Gladesville; that her parents were living in London; and that her partner was in London. None of this was true.
201In the early hours of 31 May 1999 the appellant was re-admitted to Ryde Hospital and gave birth to AJ later that morning. Later DNA tests established that AH was the father of AJ. The appellant repeated that in 1996 she had given birth to a baby girl, whom she said she had breast fed for six months; she said that the child was well.
202On 1 June 1999 the appellant contacted Anglicare Adoption Services for the purpose of surrendering AJ for adoption. She told Ms Elliott, a principal officer of Anglicare, that she had travelled from London to have the baby in Sydney and surrender him for adoption, and that she had received counselling while in England. This was not true.
203Ms Fung assumed responsibility for supervising and completing the adoption process. The process did not go smoothly. This was largely because the appellant gave a great deal of false information, some parts of it inconsistent with other parts. The appellant was difficult for Ms Fung to contact.
204The dealings with Ms Fung were extensive and continued over many weeks. The appellant told Ms Fung that she was due to start work in London in mid June and might stay (in Australia) for another two weeks. She said that her "ex partner" was in London and that he had left her when she was five months pregnant, that he was aware of the birth of AJ, and that she had discussed with him the prospect of adoption. Ms Fung queried whether the appellant's parents were aware of the pregnancy. On 3 June 1999 the appellant signed a foster care agreement for a one month period, and AJ was given into the care of a foster couple.
205The appellant told Ms Fung that the father of AJ was Duncan Gillies, from whom she was separated. She gave a London address for him. She gave her address as 10 Venus Street, Gladesville and also gave a London address for herself. She said that she had not lived with her parents since she was 17 years old. On a later occasion, she gave Ms Fung the name of AJ's father as "AW".
206On 13 September 1999 the appellant swore an affidavit in which she said (falsely) that the father of AJ was AW, that she had met AW in London, where they both resided, and that she was unable to contact AW. The false statements in this affidavit were the foundation for the third charge of perjury on the indictment.
207The appellant engaged with Ms Fung over a period from early June 1999 until the beginning of September of that year. In June, she told Ms Fung that Mr Gillies had frozen their joint bank account in London, leaving her without access to funds. She said that she had been in contact with her employer in London, who had agreed that she could remain in Australia until mid July. She said that she hoped that her mother would be able to come to Australia in order to accompany her on her return to London.
208Ms Fung found it increasingly difficult to contact the appellant. Various telephone numbers the appellant supplied were incorrect: by way of example, she gave one telephone number as that of Lisa Andreatta's grandmother. When Ms Fung rang the number, the telephone was answered by a mortgage company. The appellant's mobile phone that she used was almost invariably switched off or unanswered. The appellant gave many explanations for not being available for consultations with Ms Fung. These centred around what she claimed was her need to make arrangements for re-entry to Britain, including travel to Canberra.
209Ms Fung later ascertained that the address of 70 Venus Street, Gladesville, given by the appellant to the Ryde Hospital as her temporary address, did not exist.
210Eventually, in July, Ms Fung contacted the Department of Community Services in Katoomba. She was concerned about the legal status of AJ. The foster care agreement signed by the appellant was about to expire, and Ms Fung could not contact the appellant to extend it. Mr John Borovnik was assigned as AJ's caseworker, for the purpose of obtaining a care order.
211In the course of his investigations, Mr Borovnik obtained the appellant's medical records from the Ryde Hospital, which disclosed the appellant's 1996 pregnancy. This led to the discovery of Tegan's birth at the Auburn Hospital. On 18 October 1999 Mr Borovnik contacted the appellant and asked her if she had given birth to a child at Auburn Hospital in 1996. The appellant said that she had not. Mr Borovnik asked if she had given birth to a child in 1995, and she confirmed that she had. Mr Borovnik asked the appellant if she were sure that she had not given birth in 1996, and she assured him that she was. She also denied having attended Ryde Hospital at about that time in a pregnant condition. She said that she was not pregnant at that time. Mr Borovnik told the appellant that he would have to pass the information to the police. The appellant also told Ms Fung that she had had no children other than TR and AJ.
212On 20 October 1999 the appellant wrote to Mr Borovnik, in the following terms:
"John,
I received all of the information. I will be speaking to Virginia Fung on either Friday or Monday and will discuss those facts. Many people have been involved by name, who actually, have no knowledge of what has occurred and therefore are useless in your inquiries. Please do not contact them before giving me prior notice as they will be completely unaware of what you are talking about. There is no use concerning them with issues that they have no knowledge of, in particular Julie Melville & Duncan Gillies. I suggest you contact Virginia Fung after Monday 25/10/99 to confirm facts." (Ex LLL)
213On 25 October 1999 the appellant sent by facsimile a letter to Ms Fung. It is too lengthy a letter to be fully reproduced here. However, it is necessary to reproduce substantial extracts:
"Dear Virginia,
Firstly, thankyou for all of your time, your patience and your understanding even though I have not been entirely honest with you. I'm glad now that I can stop telling half truths and lies and perhaps move on in my life. You are the first person in a long time who has reached out to help me without me feeling like I was being judged. It must be very hard for you to understand what has been going on and why I have done the things I've done and I'm not sure I can give you all the answers. Over all of these weeks my main concern was [AJ] and making sure that he was safe and happy and that you would find him a loving and secure home.
So where do I start? I'm not sure? My life for the last 6 years has been a nightmare ... Many people, including my family, have disowned me and looking at the situation I guess it's not hard to figure out why. There were 3 children obviously I can't lie anymore as the paperwork is there. The middle child lives with a family in Perth although I have not had contact with them for along time. They befriended me just before I had her and supported us. I am not able to give you many details as I am not sure of them myself. If my story isn't unusual enough as it already is! I know you probably can't believe it but I know somehow that you know I am now being honest with you ..." (italics added) (Ex YY)
Even in this letter, the appellant was not being truthful with Ms Fung. For example, her family had not disowned her. (Whether there was any reasonable possibility that it was true that "the middle child" (Tegan) in 1999 lived "with a family in Perth" was a question the jury had to consider.) In the letter the appellant maintained the fiction that her parents lived in London. She said:
"Perhaps in the future we could become closer again and reform the ties I broke with them so long ago. I'm not sure? I would like to see them when I go over in December but I'm not sure if they'll see me or not."
She claimed that:
"People dropped off me when they realised that I was going to relinquish the babies."
(There was no evidence of anybody, other than hospital staff, who was aware of the birth of the children or the adoptions of TR and AJ. The evidence was to the contrary: that the appellant had successfully concealed all of her pregnancies from her family and friends.)
214On 4 November 1999 Mr Borovnik reported the matter to Katoomba Police. The precise terms of his report are not in evidence. On 8 November 1999 the appellant again wrote by facsimile to Mr Borovnik (Ex LLL) giving him her "adjusted contact numbers", and adding:
"Your discretion is essential & appreciated."
215The police investigation was transferred from Katoomba Police Station to the Manly Police Station where it came under the supervision of Detective Mathew Kehoe. Detective Kehoe made various inquiries and the appellant was interviewed on 14 February 2001. The interview was electronically recorded. Inter alia, the following questions were asked and answers given:
"Q23 As I've explained to you, we're investigating a, a report forwarded to us by the Katoomba Children's Court in relation to the birth and subsequent adoption of, of that child. Can you, in your words, can you just explain to us the circumstances of when the child was born and what happened subsequent to that?
A After a brief affair with the father of the child I gave birth. We made an arrangement that he would come and take custody of Tegan as I was unable to take care of her myself, and he dropped me home and then took Tegan with him into his care.
Q24 O.K. And you told me that the person that you, that is the natural father of the child is an Andrew Morris. Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q25 Now you don't know where he is at the present time?
A No, I don't.
Q26 You believe he previously lived in Balmain?
A That's right.
Q27 And you believe that his date of birth is sometime in August, 1966?
A Perhaps a little earlier ... maybe July, August.
...
Q32 Now you also explained to me that he, during that time in 1996 that he had a partner that lived with him.
A That's right, Mel.
Q33 And are you aware of her full name?
A No, I'm not.
... [The appellant then agreed that she had attended Ryde Hospital prior to the birth of Tegan, and that the baby was born on 12 September 1996.]
Q40 And you were referred to the hospital by a home birth midwife. Is that correct?
A No, it's not correct.
Q41 All right. Can you tell me who Julie Melville is?
A Yep, she was the mother of the, um, guy I was seeing at the time, who was a midwife.
... [The appellant said that she left the Auburn Hospital at sometime before midday on 14 September, a Saturday.]
Q47 And when you were at the hospital did anybody visit you out there?
...
A Oh, sorry, sorry. Yes, I was visited on 2 days by Andrew and Mel and Andrew's mother. Sorry.
...
Q50 And what was the purpose of their visit?
A To make arrangements for Andrew to take custody of Tegan.
Q51 O.K. And, and what arrangements were made for him to take custody of her?
A He was to arrange to have a car seat organised so he could take Tegan home, he was to take me home, and then he would go home with Tegan.
Q52 Right, O.K. To your knowledge is there any reason why Andrew wanted to adopt or care for Tegan?
A Well, he's the natural father and I was unable to, to take custody of her myself, and that was very clear from March in '96 when I found out I was pregnant, and I had made that clear to him and that was part of the, the, you know, agreement between us, for me to carry the baby to full term.
Q53 O.K. When did you first meet Andrew?
A I met him in December, '95.
Q54 Are you aware if his partner has any kind of medical problem or she can't have children, or is that perhaps the reason, or ---
A No, it was just by choice because I was not able to have a child at the time, mentally or financially, I wasn't capable and wasn't prepared to keep Tegan and, and Andrew was, and he earned good money and he had a partner. That to me seemed, they seemed to have a pretty, they had a future together. Well, they indicated to me that they were gunna be together and I thought that would be more suitable than me on my own at Uni and ---
...
Q57 And as you've explained to me beforehand, on the day you were discharged from hospital Andrew came to the hospital. Is that right?
A That's correct.
Q58 And they dropped you to, they dropped you home to Gladesville.
A That's right.
Q59 And what address did they drop you to in Gladesville?
A 10 Venus Street, Gladesville.
Q60 And, and Andrew took Tegan home with him.
A That's right.
Q61 And I think you've explained to me beforehand that you saw Tegan on a number of occasions after that.
A That's right.
Q62 And when was the last time that you saw her?
A Oh, approximately, it would have been about 3 or 4 months later.
Q63 And when was the last occasion that you spoke with either Andrew or Melanie?
A Either January or February of '97.
Q64 O.K. Now I think you've explained that you don't have an address for, for Andrew. Is that right?
A No, I don't know where he is.
...
Q68 Do you have any other friends that may know where he is at the moment?
A No, the people that are in my life now weren't necessarily around then. They wouldn't have known him.
Q69 O.K. Are there any other people who knew of Andrew that you might be able to get in contact with that might know of his whereabouts now?
A Yeah, quite possibly.
...
Q71 ... Now you showed us beforehand that you had, you have Tegan's details on your Medicare card.
A That's correct, yeah.
Q72 And can you just explain the reason why her details are on your card?
A That would be because when I filled out the registration forms in the hospital I went through them with a nurse and she had the official sticker or whatever it was, it may be, all the paperwork together, and I filled out the registration forms and signed them, and also signed a form for Medicare to, in future in case Tegan was with me and I needed to take her to the doctor's or something ..." (Ex NNN)
216In October 2002 Detective Richard Gaut took over the investigation. On 16 October Detective Gaut had a conversation with the appellant. This conversation was not recorded. However, Detective Gaut made notes of the conversation. He introduced himself to the appellant, and asked "the circumstances of who you gave the child to and how it was given over". The appellant replied:
"I gave it to the father Andrew Norris."
217The appellant then told Detective Gaut that Andrew Norris, his mother and his girlfriend Melanie had come to Auburn Hospital when she was discharged and picked the child up from there. She said that she had caught a taxi home to Gladesville by herself. Detective Gaut noted that this was different, in two respects, from what the appellant had told Detective Kehoe. These were the name given to the father of the child - Norris, not Morris, and the circumstances in which she said that she had returned to her home. He challenged the appellant about this. She denied having used the name "Morris" to Detective Kehoe and insisted that she had spoken of Andrew Norris. Detective Gaut also asked her about the different accounts she had given about how she travelled home to Gladesville - she had told Detective Kehoe that Andrew Morris, with his partner and mother, had driven her to Gladesville; but she told Detective Gaut that she had travelled by taxi. The appellant explained:
"... I told him that because that's what I wanted to happen. He hated me. I felt like a slut. I wanted to make it sound better, the fact that they didn't - they didn't care about me."
218The appellant gave Detective Gaut a description of Andrew Norris. She said that he would (in 2002) have been about 36 years of age (that is, born in about 1966) had bleached blonde hair, was well built, with a tanned complexion, worked in the finance industry or in banking. She thought he had attended Sydney University.
219Detective Gaut asked the appellant about the existence of anybody who could verify the existence of Andrew Norris, and knew about the birth and the fact that she had handed Tegan to that person. The appellant replied:
"There was a lot of people I used to hang around back then who aren't in my life now."
220She identified a Lisa Andreatta from Brisbane as a friend of Andrew's who knew about the birth, and who also knew Andrew's partner Mel. Ms Lisa Andreatta met the appellant in 1996 as a fellow student at the Australian College of Physical Education in Homebush. During that year they became friends. Ms Andreatta met Duncan Gillies, who she understood to be the appellant's boyfriend. The appellant never told Ms Andreatta that she was having a relationship either with Andrew Morris or Andrew Norris, nor anybody whose first name was Andrew. The appellant never introduced Ms Andreatta to a man named Andrew Morris or Andrew Norris. Ms Andreatta had never lived in Brisbane.
221The following day, 17 October, the appellant telephoned Detective Gaut and told him that she was intending to go to the Gladesville address (10 Venus Street) to attempt to locate old diaries containing phone numbers of friends who could verify her account of Andrew Norris. Detective Gaut did not hear from the appellant over the next three weeks, and, on 7 November, he telephoned her to ask how her inquiries were proceeding. She told him that at that point she had been unable to find any contact numbers but was intending to go to the Gladesville address (10 Venus Street) on Saturday, 9 November to look through old boxes containing diaries with phone numbers of mutual friends. Detective Gaut asked her to call him by Monday, 11 November. She did not do so. Detective Gaut made a number of attempts to contact the appellant and eventually did so. On one occasion (22 November) she told him that she was not in a position to speak, but would call back in 20 minutes. She did not do so.
222On 13 December 2002 Detective Gaut received from the appellant a hand written letter. The appellant advised him of her intention to travel to the United Kingdom with her then partner and daughter. Later, she provided Detective Gaut with details of her travel arrangements.
223On 2 December 2002, with another detective, Detective Gaut went to 10 Venus Street, Gladesville where he spoke to two of the three women then living at that address. They told him that nobody had come to the house to search through old boxes of papers.
224On 3 January 2003, Detective Gaut and a dog handler went to that address with a cadaver dog for the purpose of investigating whether any human remains were on the property. The search yielded no result.
225On 9 May 2003 the appellant was again interviewed, this time by Detective Gaut, at the Manly Police Station. The interview was electronically recorded.
226Detective Gaut asked the appellant to confirm that, on 16 October 2002, she had given the name of Tegan's father as Andrew Norris. She did not agree with that. When further questions were asked, the appellant said [A67]:
"I made a mistake, yes, I, I told Detective Kehoe one name and I told you a different name."
227The interview was a lengthy one. The following questions and answers are significant:
"Q96 ... Is it true that when you were at the hospital, that his [Andrew Morris/Norris] mother came to the hospital?
A That's true.
Q97 That's true? And is it true that his, his girlfriend or his wife at the time, Melanie, or Mel ---
A Mel.
Q97 --- she also came to the hospital?
A Yes.
Q98 How many times did they come to the hospital?
A They only came to, to pick Tegan up, but Andrew had been once before.
..."
228In response to a specific question by Detective Gaut, the appellant said that she had gone through boxes at her old address, 10 Venus Street, Gladesville. That, she said, occurred in November 2002. Immediately after that, she said that she had been unable to go through the boxes, because the tenants refused her access.
229Detective Gaut then asked a number of questions about the notes taken by Ms Baltra-Vasquez at Auburn Hospital. The appellant agreed that, although she had told Ms Baltra-Vasquez that she had been born in Perth and her parents still lived there, that was not true. She agreed that she had "probably" told Ms Baltra-Vasquez that her boyfriend was a good caring man and the pregnancy had been planned, and that this was not true. With respect to her statement to Ms Baltra-Vasquez that, on her discharge from hospital, "a lady" would come to stay with her, she said:
"A222 But by that stage, I knew that Andrew was taking Tegan, so I was going to be on my own."
230Detective Gaut asked the appellant about her statements to Ms Fung that AJ was her first child. She said this was because she thought Ms Fung would not help her, would judge her and would not help AJ. He asked her about the letter to Ms Fung in which the appellant had claimed that "the middle child" (Tegan) lived with a family in Perth. When asked if that was true, the appellant said:
"A292 I'm not sure where they are."
Detective Gaut asked why she said they were in Perth, and asked if she had believed that the family were in Perth. The appellant answered:
"A294 I wasn't sure what Andrew was going to do."
231The appellant told Detective Gaut that the reference to "the Perth family" was a reference to Mel and Andrew. The following questions and answers are pertinent:
"Q297 Do you agree that it says 'they befriended me'?
A Yes.
Q298 O.K, 'just before I had her and supported us'.
A Yes. I -
Q299 Well, do you agree that if, if you had an affair with Andrew, who, who you knew well before you had the child ---
A But I didn't know Mel at all.
Q300 Why did you say they lived in Perth?
A (NO AUDIBLE REPLY)
Q301 Well, do you agree that you've never told the police that you believe that they live in Perth?
A Sorry?
Q302 Do you agree that you've never told the police, while we're trying to find out where, where Norris is living, you've never mentioned him living in Perth?
A No. I, I never have.
Q303 Can you tell us why?
A No.
Q304 Do you believe he lives in Perth?
A I'm not sure. I'm not sure what his plans were. He wasn't going to tell me.
Q305 Can you tell me why you told Virgina Fung that, that the child lives in Perth with a family?
A Some of the conversations I had with Andrew indicated perhaps he wasn't going to stay in Sydney because of the embarrassment that I'd caused him and, or could cause him, I guess.
Q306 Did he, did he ever say he was going to Perth?
A Not direct, not directly, amongst other, he just said, I can't, I don't know, somewhere, something along the lines of I don't know how I could stay in Sydney, what will everyone think, it's such an embarrassment. For him. It's an embarrassment for him." (Ex PPP)
Detective Gaut asked the appellant directly if she had killed Tegan, which the appellant denied.
232Detective Gaut asked the appellant about the inclusion of Tegan on her Medicare card, and the absence of any claims made with respect to her. She said that she filled out "the paperwork" and gave it to Andrew Morris/Norris. He asked about her claim that Lisa Andreatta was aware of the relationship and the birth of Tegan. The following questions were asked and answers given:
"Q352 You didn't think it might be important that she was the one person who could verify the fact that ---
A But I know she doesn't know where he is.
Q353 Yeah, but you, you agree that you said that she knew about the child and she knew about the, who the father was and all that and that she could verify that? ... Do you agree with that?
A Yes.
...
Q355 All right. So, you didn't think, it, this could put it all to rest, if you were to allow police to speak with her?
A I don't, I don't want to have her involved, I don't, she's overseas and I don't want her to, I just thought you would speak with him and it would be fine and she wouldn't have to be involved and -
Q356 Mm. Well, I, I've spoken with Lisa and she states that she doesn't know any Andrew Norris and she also doesn't know anything about you having a child in 1996. Keli, it's obviously from what you've telling myself and other people, all right, that you're not telling us the truth. Now, this matter is not a matter that's going to go away.
A I know it's not going to go away, but I don't want to hurt everybody around me." (Ex PPP)
233The appellant maintained that Tegan was with Andrew Norris. She said:
"A361 I thought, I know she didn't know, about the baby, but she, I, I am sure she knew who Andrew was, because we used to, she used to be there when he was there." (Ex PPP)
234Detective Gaut then asked the appellant again to nominate anybody who knew about her relationship with Andrew Norris or who knew that she had had a child with him. The appellant did not reply.
235Following this interview, the appellant agreed to accompany detectives to Balmain in an attempt to locate the apartment block in which she had said that Andrew Norris lived. She gave a general description of the area where she claimed to have visited Andrew Norris. This excursion took place on 19 May 2003. After driving around the area for a time, the appellant identified an apartment block in Wisbeach Street, Balmain as having features similar to that where she said she had conducted her liaison with Andrew Norris. They entered the block and, from the outside, the appellant identified the apartment she said she believed to have been occupied by Norris.
236The appellant said that Andrew Norris lived in the apartment with his girlfriend Melanie, who, the appellant understood, worked in retail, but who was never present when the appellant visited. She said that Melanie's possessions were in the apartment.
237Detective Gaut was able to gain access to one of the apartments in the block, which the appellant said was directly underneath the apartment occupied by Andrew Norris, and was identical in layout. She told Detective Gaut that, on two or three mornings after she had stayed with Norris, she had walked to the nearby Dawn Fraser Swimming Pool for water polo training.
238As part of his investigation Detective Gaut made contact with some friends of the appellant. A couple called Brandon and Melinda Ward, who had known the appellant since childhood, were among those contacted. Mr and Mrs Ward told the appellant of the inquiries, saying:
"A detective has been ringing us asking us about a missing baby that you've had. We have no idea what he is talking about. We thought we would make you aware of this."
The appellant replied:
"It has nothing to do with you, it is something between Duncan, Narelle and Simon."
239Simon Gillies was Duncan Gillies' brother. He and his wife Narelle had had difficulty conceiving and she had given birth to a still born child in February 1998. The appellant had visited her in hospital. There was no arrangement between Simon and Narelle Gillies and the appellant in relation to a baby born in 1996.
240On 7 January 2004 Detective Gaut visited the appellant at her home, in company with Detective Edgtton. A conversation ensued that was not recorded. Detective Gaut made it plain that he did not wish, in an unrecorded conversation, to discuss matters the subject of the investigation. The appellant told Detective Gaut that, as she had not heard from him for months, she was wondering why he had not contacted her. The appellant protested that Detective Gaut had contacted a number of her friends and acquaintances. She maintained that she had given Tegan away. Eventually, the appellant agreed to a further recorded interview at the Manly Police Station.
241That interview took place the following day, 8 January 2004. The appellant told Detective Gaut that she was confident that Duncan Gillies was not the father of the child, because, at about the time of conception, they had abstained from sexual relations. She said that Andrew Norris reacted with hostility when she told him that she was pregnant, and that, thereafter, she had virtually no contact with him, until after Tegan's birth. Shortly after saying that, she said that there had been some face to face contact during that time, and that Andrew Norris had remained hostile, accusing her of "trapping" him.
242She said that the arrangement for Andrew Norris and his partner "Mel" to take the baby was made on a Friday in September, after Tegan's birth, and while the appellant remained in the hospital.
243The appellant said that she had a lengthy conversation with Andrew Norris when she first informed him of her pregnancy, and then had no further contact with him until she telephoned him from the hospital after which he, with his mother and partner Melanie, came to the hospital to take Tegan.
244What followed thereafter was a painstaking, meticulous and exhaustive investigation initially under the supervision of Detective Gaut. The investigation began by focussing upon determining: (i) whether there was any realistic possibility that Tegan was alive, and (ii) an attempt to identify the Andrew Morris/Norris to whom the appellant claimed to have given the baby. The searches for Andrew Morris/Norris included: