The evidence relied on by ASIC
63 ASIC relied on the content of, and inferences open to be drawn from, a considerable body of documentary evidence, including as follows.
64 On 8 December 2016, nine days after NSG signed the heads of agreement with ASIC, Mr Tzouvelis sent an SMS to the Operations Manager of the NSG, Ms Chrystal Evans, asking whether there was "[a]ny word on transfer of AFSL".
65 On the same day, Ms Evans wrote to several insurance companies (MLC Wealth, ANZ, Colonial First State, AMP, and IOOF) asking to "transfer all clients currently being held by [NSG] to [Premium] AFSL 454195". Ms Evans' 8 December 2016 email to Mr Matthew Kent at IOOF was in these terms (errors and emphasis in the original):
Subject: Transfer Customers for NSG (AFSL to Premium Client Services (AFSL 454195)
Hi Matt,
As discussed back in June 2015 NSG is moving on in terms of licenses etc. As part of this we have made agreements and arrangements with another licence to service all of our existing client base.
Based on this I would formally like to make the request to transfer all NSG clients, including clients currently under Brian and Vince to Premium Client Services AFSL 454195.
I am unaware if Premium Client Services currently has an Corporate code with IOOF so if they don't can you please forward me the relevant details of what you need to set this up and I will handle with them and their director.
Also could you check if Angelo Panagopoulos has been set up with his individual code? If not can you send me forms to have this done. His individual AR number with ASIC is 1250446
I was supposed to request this a few weeks ago so if you could make an urgent move on it I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks in Advance.
Chrystal Evans
Operations Manager
National Sterling Group
66 Ms Evans' 8 December 2016 email to the team at ANZ was relevantly in these terms:
Subject: FW: Transfer of all clients from NSG Services Pty Ltd to Premium Client Services Pty
Hi Team,
RE Transfer of all clients from NSG Services Pty Ltd to Premium Client Services Pty
We would like to transfer all clients currently being held by NSG Service Pty. Ltd., its sub-authorised reps Brian Sayers and Vince Panagiotidis, to Premium Client Services AFSL 454195.
I am unsure if Premium Client Services currently have an arrangement with ANZ/One Path however if not we need to get this started transfer started immediately and find out what forms we need to have signed in order to have this transfer completed ASAP.
67 Between 12 and 13 December 2016, Ms Evans, Mr Tzouvelis and Mr Panagopoulos (then director of Premium and the external accountant for Mr Tzouvelis, NSG and Premium) exchanged emails about transferring clients from NSG to Premium, including about the "need [for] some signatures [of clients] on paperwork".
68 A little over three weeks after ASIC commenced proceedings against it, Golden Financial transferred $821,212.36 from its bank account to a bank account held in the name of Premium.
69 In response to ASIC's contention that the payment was evidence of the first improper purpose alleged, Mr Tzouvelis deposed in his First LPP Affidavit that the reason for this transfer was that on 29 June 2016, Premium had issued twenty invoices to Golden Financial totalling $821,212.36 for management fees said to have been incurred between November 2014 and May 2016. He deposed as follows:
I refer to paragraph 50 of the Hsueh affidavit in which he deposes to a transfer on 29 June 2016 of $821,212.36 from [Golden Financial] to Adelaide FS Pty Ltd (i.e. [Premium]). The reason for this transfer was that [Premium] had invoiced [Golden Financial] for $821,212.36 worth of management fees (wages and operating costs to service the client database) from November 2014 to May 2016. The transfer was made in payment of these management fees, contained in 20 invoices sent by [Premium] to [Golden Financial]. At page 158 of AT-1 is a true copy of a receipt issued by [Premium] to [Golden Financial] which identifies the amount paid and the relevant invoices.
70 This is a reproduction of the receipt that Mr Tzouvelis said was issued by Premium to Golden Financial and which was at page 158 of the bundle of documents annexed to his First LPP Affidavit:
71 ASIC contended that Mr Tzouvelis' "explanation does not accord with the documentary evidence" because:
73 [O]n 29 June 2016, shortly after ASIC commenced the civil penalty proceeding on 3 June 2016, Golden Financial paid $821,212.36 to Premium. This had the effect of reducing Golden Financial's available assets. Mr Tzouvelis claims in the Tzouvelis LPP Affidavit that the reason for this transfer was that Premium had invoiced Golden Financial for management fees (wages and operating costs to service the client database) from November 2014 to May 2016.
74 This explanation does not accord with the documentary evidence. In particular:
(a) the sum of $821,212.37 exceeds the recorded income for Premium in its audited financial statements for the entirety of financial years 2015 and 2016. Golden Financial's audited financial statements also record $0 in 'Management Fee' for financial year 201585 and $444,043 in 'Management Fee' for financial year 2016;
(b) …
(c) finally, the 'receipt' which Mr Tzouvelis says was issued by Premium to Golden Financial is curious in that it purports to be dated 30 June 2016. However, the letterhead contains the email address 'talwis@iprosperfinancialplanning.com.au', being the email of an individual called Theshan Alwis. Mr Alwis does not appear to have started his employment with Premium until June 2019. Also, the website address 'https://www.iprosperfinancialplanning.com.au' is featured on the 'receipt', but iProsper did not become Premium's corporate authorised representative until 16 November 2018.
(Footnotes omitted).
72 Those submissions prompted Mr Tzouvelis to respond in his Second LPP Affidavit, as follows:
14 I refer to paragraph [47] of My First Affidavit, the receipt at page 158 of AT-1 and paragraph 74(c) of ASIC's written submissions.
15 Theshan Alwis was employed by PCSA between 8 July 2019 and 28 February 2023. Theshan is a qualified accountant and worked within the accounts department for the Tzouvelis Group of companies.
16 For the purposes of the preparation of My First Affidavit, Theshan was asked to login to a part of the Tzouvelis Group's accounting system, Quickbooks, to obtain and provide copies of the management fee invoices between [Golden Financial] and PCSA between November 2014 and May 2016 and the payment summary document dated 30 June 2016. Theshan carried out this task and produced those documents.
17 I am informed by my staff and believe that it is a standard function within the Quickbooks accounting software system that any historical report generated by the system will automatically populate the 'company details' with the information that is attached to that account and, relevantly, the login details of the person who accessed the system to retrieve the historical information. I am informed and believe that as a result, despite Theshan not having been employed by PCSA at the time with respect to which the historical report retrieved relates, his details appear on the report because he obtained it.
73 That in turn led ASIC to send a letter to the respondents' solicitors, in the following terms:
1. We refer to the second affidavit of Mr Tzouvelis sworn in this proceeding on 24 March 2023.
2. In particular, we refer to Mr Tzouvelis' explanation of Quickbooks at paras 14 to 17 regarding the production of the document referred to in para 14 (and exhibited at page 158 of AT-1), which is described as a receipt (the Receipt).
3. Mr Tzouvelis' explanation provided in those paragraphs does not accord with ASIC's understanding of the operation of Quickbooks.
4. Accordingly, we request that your clients produce, by 12 noon on Wednesday, 29 March 2023, the Quickbooks audit log for the Receipt, verifying when that document was created, edited and produced.
74 There was no response to that letter. No explanation was provided of how the respondents' QuickBooks system relevantly operated to produce the receipt. Nor was an audit log produced.
75 On 20 March 2017, Ms Eleni Pantelidou, Production Accounts Manager for National Sterling Group, sent an email to Mr Rod Brown, Business Development Officer for IOOF asking, among other things:
I would like to ask you what are the steps that we need to take so that we transfer all our existing accounts to a new licensee. Are there any forms that the director needs to sign so that we register the new licensee with you and then transfer those accounts to the new licensee?
76 On 21 April 2017, Ms Pantelidou prepared a letter of release for Mr Tzouvelis to authorise The Colonial Mutual Life Assurance Society Limited (Colonial Mutual) to transfer 33 specified clients' accounts to Premium.
77 On 4 July 2017, Zurich terminated Golden Financial's distribution agreement with Macquarie Life dated 24 December 2012.
78 On 6 July 2017, Mr Tzouvelis sent an email to Ms Leanne Shepherd of Zurich which stated, among other things:
Thank you for your time and understanding, as discussed we would like to bring to your attention and correct some of the points made in your letter...
Finally we just want to thank you all for confirming our understanding of the cancellation over the last few days...
* We will continue to receive our trail payments as normal...
79 On 19 July 2017, Ms Shepherd responded to Mr Tzouvelis in an email, which stated, among other things:
We confirm that the Distribution Agreement with NSG has been terminated by agreement between us effective from 17 July 2017.
We would like to also confirm the consequences of termination are:
* Trail commission is unaffected and continues;
*no new business will be accepted...
80 On 3 August 2017, Mr Tzouvelis responded to Ms Shepherd, which stated, among other things:
Hi Guys thank you for your time in the last few days. I fully understand what your [sic] saying about the access to the customers perhaps we could relook at this down the track. I would like to say thank you [for] clarifying the below.
81 Between 12 June 2017 and 15 March 2018, Mr Tzouvelis signed several Deeds of Assignment between Golden Financial and Premium by which Golden Financial assigned to Premium its rights under distribution agreements with insurance companies Colonial Mutual (12 June 2017), Zurich (10 August 2017), and ING (15 March 2018).
82 Between June and December 2017, Mr Tzouvelis also signed several "letters of release" on behalf of Golden Financial to authorise IOOF, CommInsure, AMP, Suncorp, AIA, ANZ, TAL and MLC to transfer specified client accounts to Premium.
83 ASIC said that between 5 July 2017 and 6 September 2021, Premium received commission payments from insurance product providers transferred from Golden Financial totalling $7,808,784.71.
84 ASIC relied on the evidence of Ms Populin in her 21 September 2022 affidavit, correctly summarised in the First Hsueh Affidavit as follows:
(a) In June 2017, the Golden Financial ANZ A/C 835673203 (described in the bank statements under account name as "NSG SERVICES PTY LTD RECEIVING COMMISSIONS") received $295,215.67 in commission payments from insurance product providers. Premium NAB A/C 848196805 had not received any commission payments from insurance product providers at that time.
(b) In July 2017, the Premium NAB A/C 848196805 started to receive commission payments from insurance product providers, receiving a total of $22,949.44 in the month of July 2017.
(c) In October 2017, the Golden Financial ANZ A/C 835673203 received $87,427.30 in commission payments from insurance product providers compared to $101,943.95 in Premium NAB A/C 848196805.
(d) In December 2017, the Golden Financial ANZ A/C 835673203 received $533.61 in commission payments from insurance product providers compared to $131,742.14 in Premium NAB A/C 848196805.
(e) In the months since December 2017, Golden Financial ANZ A/C 835673203 received either nil or negligible payments until it was closed on 15 July 2020.
(f) In the period between 5 July 2017 and 6 September 2021, Premium has received payments from insurance product providers transferred from Golden Financial totalling $7,808,784.71. Prior to 5 July 2017, Premium did not receive any payments from insurance product providers.
85 Mr Tzouvelis disputed the total figure calculated by Ms Populin. But he accepted that Premium received payments totalling $5,864,008.25, comprising "upfront payments" of $933,543.65 and trail payments of $4,930,464.60. He also admitted that nearly all of Golden Financial's distribution agreements with insurance companies were assigned to Premium.
86 It is not necessary for present purposes to resolve the question which of the two figures ($7,808,784.71 or $5,864,008.25) is correct. ASIC has plainly made good a case for the higher figure. But on any view, it is common ground that large sums of money from insurance companies originally destined to be in the coffers of Golden Financial ended up with Premium.
87 The evidence also demonstrated that Golden Financial was intent on ensuring that trailing commissions which would otherwise be payable to Golden Financial be transferred to Premium.
88 For example, during April and May 2017, Ms Pantelidou and Mr Tzouvelis corresponded about arrangements for transferring clients of Golden Financial to Premium, via emails with subject headers like "Moving Trail update", "Moving Trail Progress" and "Moving Trail to Premium Client Services".
89 On 1 August 2017, Ms Pantelidou sent an email to Mr Tzouvelis with the subject header "Update on the trail", providing information about insurance companies from whom trail commissions were now being received in the Premium account:
Hi Tony
This is the update so far.
1. IOOF - Done, we are receiving the trail in the Premium Client Services account
2. Macquarie /super) - Done, we are receiving the trail in the Premium Client Services account
3. MLC - Done, we are receiving the trail in the Premium Client Services account. As Brian and Kyle are still lodging business with the old code I will have to do a secondary transfer soon.
4. CommInsure - Done, we are receiving the trail in the Premium Client Services account.
5. One Path - everything has been sent to them, they had emailed Luke and left voicemails as they wanted to know the adviser who will be taking over the clients. I emailed them yesterday to let them know it will be Angelo. Waiting for them to transfer the clients.
6. AIA - they emailed an extra document that needed to be signed by Angelo and they require the original. Angelo signed it and I am waiting for you to sign the release letter so that I can post everything today. Can you please sing the letter, it's been in your tray since yesterday.
7. Asteron - the new dealer group has been set up, waiting for them to transfer the clients.
8. Zurich - Luke sent all the documents as the PI Insurance was done after I had left. I have emailed them and called them for an update but they still haven't replied and not answered my calls. I will call them again today.
90 On 26 October 2017, Mr Tzouvelis sent a letter regarding "Change of Bank Account Details" to both ANZ and ING. Each letter was in these terms:
I, Antonios Tzouvelis, the sole director of NSG Services Pty Ltd (AFSL 321191), confirm that we have recently changed our bank account details so please update your records and use the updated bank account details from now on.
Old account details: Bank: ANZ
BSB: 013-423
Account Number: 83-567-3203
New account details:
Old account details:
Bank: National Australia Bank 8S8: 083-170
Account Number: 84-819-6805
91 Mr Tzouvelis was cross-examined about his evidence about those documents, as follows:
[MS LEVINE] And there, you sign this form. That's your signature at the bottom? Correct.
25 October 2017 is the date, and it says, "I" - do you remember signing this form? I'm going to say to you no. I don't, but that doesn't mean I didn't - I didn't.
It's your signature? Yes. It appears to be my signature, but I - I don't remember that particular form.
And it says:
I, Antonios Tzouvelis, the sole director of NSG Services Proprietary Limited confirm that we've recently changed our bank account details. Please update your records and use the updated bank account details from now on.
It has got the old account details at ANZ and the new account details at the NAB. Now, Mr Tzouvelis, it's the case, isn't it, that those new bank account details you gave to ING were in fact for Premium of Golden Financial? I've been made aware of this and, if you would like - if you want the yes-no answer, the answer is yes or I can give you the actual answer as well.
So it's not correct, is it, that this was a change of bank account details within NSG, as suggested by the documents going to ING. Correct? It's - it's not the correct bank account details. That's what I can agree with you.
And I put to you that you were doing this because you wanted Premium to start receiving the trailing commissions, but you hadn't obtained yet most of the wet ink signatures necessary to transfer the client accounts from Golden Financial to Premium. Correct? Again, no. It's not correct.
You didn't tell ING this was the incorrect bank account details at any point prior to today or at all, did you? I was not in charge of that, but I - the - so again, okay. No.
Well, you said you've been made aware of it. What is your explanation? Okay. So in the communications, Chrystal explains there's a two-stage process to this in terms of what needs to be done. In addition to that, we weren't receiving any commissions from ING to Golden. They in fact shut us down. So to transfer over something we're not receiving, I don't understand how that occurs. Right. Why she did it in this two-stage process, I must tell you my honest opinion, my honest answer, is I trusted Chrystal. By and large, she did a fantastic job. So why she needed a two-stage process, I don't have my fingers all over that. I trusted in what she did and she - in the end, I suppose she got it all over.
This form that we're looking at, page 27, that's a form you signed, not Chrystal Evans? Correct. I did sign it.
92 On 3 November 2017, Ms Pantelidou emailed Mr Tzouvelis telling him:
Hi Tony,
I have put in your tray the following
60 day bank statement of Premium Client Services bank account that shows that commission is paid there and highlighted the amounts
One statement of each company that shows that commission is paid to Premium Client Services.
93 On 13 November 2017 Ms Shepherd of Zurich emailed Mr Tzouvelis as follows:
Dear Tony
We refer to the below email of 18/10/2017 along with our recent telephone conversation, and advise that as a result of the termination of the Distribution Agreement, clause 13.6 does not apply, as the clause (under the terms of the agreement, clause 11.4) does not survive termination. As discussed, even if the transfer had been requested prior to termination we would have been unable to process an assignment anyway, as the new entity does not hold a Distribution Agreement with Zurich.
Zurich will not recognise an assignment of trail commission rights such that Zurich is obliged to pay an assignee. However, Zurich acknowledges that NSG may wish to pay their entitlements to another entity. Zurich can facilitate that by allowing NSG to direct payment of NSG entitlements to a third party's bank account as directed by NSG. The Change of Bank Account for Commission Form is attached for completion and return. In cases where Zurich pays to a third party bank account as a consequence of such a direction:
• Zurich recognises its obligation for payment of trail commission continues to NSG;
• all communication will continue to be between ZAL and NSG;
• GST paperwork will be managed between ZAL and NSG;
in the event NSG ceases to hold an AFSL, payments of trail commission will cease;
• in the event NSG ceases to be registered for GST, payment will similarly cease.
94 On 4 January 2018, solicitors for Golden Financial (Mr Mark Bland of Mills Oakley) replied to that email, relevantly in these terms:
We act for NSG Services Pty Ltd and refer to your email to Mr Tony Tzouvelis of 13 November 2017.
… In your email, you state that Zurich refuses to recognise an assignment of trial [sic] commission rights but offers to make payment of entitlements into a third parties [sic] bank account as directed by NSG.
The proposed alternative arrangement is not acceptable to our client.
...
We request that you provide written confirmation of our clients' assignment to [Premium] … within 7 days of the date of this letter.
95 On 19 January 2018, Zurich responded to the above correspondence and stated, among other things:
However, our searches have not been able to confirm the required relationship between the two entities. We will accordingly update our records to reflect the assignment on your provision of satisfactory documentary evidence from ASIC's Company database showing that PCS is a related body corporate of NSG ... We have been previously advised on a number of occasions by [Mr Tzouvelis] that the 2 entities are not related, so we would be grateful if you would clarify the identity of the intended assignee (and that it is a related body corporate of NSG).
96 On 6 March 2018, Mr Tzouvelis emailed Ms Evans asking her:
Can you please tell me who else NSG is receiving money from or in other words who hasn't been transferred to another account.
Also who has changed bank account but not transferred to another AFSL
97 Ms Evans responded the same day:
Hi Tony,
Ones that haven't been transferred from NSG are OnePath
Zurich
ING Direct (only some clients have been transferred that signed the relevant document) However all of them are paid to the PCSA bank account
All others have been transferred.
98 Mr Tzouvelis then replied: "So the rest have infact [sic] transferred to Premium".
99 ASIC also relied on evidence that the transfer of the right to receive trailing commissions by Golden Financial to Premium was, contrary to terms contained in various deeds of assignment, in fact made in the absence of valuable consideration.
100 One such deed was a Deed of Assignment between Golden Financial and Premium dated 12 June 2017. It relevantly provided:
Deed of Assignment
This Deed is made on the 12th day of July 2017.
Between
Golden Financial Group Pty Ltd
Level 9, 608 St Kilda Road, Melbourne VIC 3004 ("Assignor")
and
Premium Client Services Australia Pty Ltd
Ground Floor, 61 Camberwell Road, Hawthorn East VIC 3123 ("Assignee")
Recitals
A. By an Agreement dated 30 May 2008 between the Assignor and The Colonial Mutual Life Assurance Society Limited ("Colonial") [an insurance provider], the Assignor was appointed to provide non-exclusive distribution services for products of Colonial on the terms and conditions set out in the Distribution Agreement.
B. The Assignor is authorised to and wishes to assign the Distribution Agreement to the Assignee.
C. The Assignee is authorised to and willing to accept the assignment of the Distribution Agreement.
D. The Assignee agrees to be bound to comply with the provisions of the Distribution Agreement that are binding on the Assignor as if it were a party to the Distribution Agreement instead of the Assignor.
Now This Deed Witnesses:
Assignment
1. For valuable consideration of the Assignee, the Assignor Irrevocably assigns to the Assignee absolutely all the Assignor's:
a. right, title and interest in the Distribution Agreement, including the right to recover same, together with any fees or commissions which has accrued or which may have accrued in the future.
b. rights and remedies arising under the Distribution Agreement.
Transfer of Clients
2. Contemporaneously with the execution of this Deed, the Assignor will execute and deliver to Colonial authority to transfer the Clients of the Assignor to the Assignee.
3. Until such time that the Clients of the Assignor are transferred to the Assignee, the Assignor declares that it will hold the Distribution Agreement as bare trustee for the Assignee and will only deal with the Distribution Agreement as directed by the Assignee.
…
101 Mr Tzouvelis was asked about the deed in his cross-examination, relevantly as follows:
[MS LEVINE] So is it the case that valuable consideration was paid?---No, there was no money paid. I - on this.
So this document is incorrect?---I don't know the answer to that because I spoke to the solicitor, and he said to me, "Tony, the - the value - valuable consideration would be considered the actual income that goes over." I didn't fully understand it, but we had - we definitely did not pay money to come over .....
But you just said to me before or agreed with me that it was - that the transfers from Golden to Premium occurred for no valuable consideration; isn't that right?---Correct. We didn't pay for it.
So then this document must be incorrect; is that so?---I can't agree with that. I - I would get the solicitor to actually - I don't understand it enough to give you an answer on that.
And, yes, if we turn to page 759 where it's executed as a deed, it says:
Antonios Tzouvelis, sole director, sole company secretary -
that's you?---Mmm.
It's a signature. Is that your signature?---That is.
So you signed it, knowing it to be incorrect; is that so?---No. I assumed that the solicitors that have actually set this up - I have - I didn't read it.
You didn't read it?---No.
But I thought you just said moments ago that you spoke to a solicitor and they---?--- This is after.
Well, let me finish my question?---Yes. Yes.
I thought you said you spoke to a solicitor and solicitor said something to the effect of the valuable considerations of the income, so did you speak to someone or did you not? ---I did say yes. I did speak to someone at a later point.
So you signed it without understanding it? I signed it with the idea that the people that I deal with know what they're doing.
102 In his First LPP Affidavit, Mr Tzouvelis deposed that no consideration needed to be paid because the Tzouvelis Family Discretionary Trust owned the client database and it licensed Golden Financial to use it. Mr Tzouvelis claimed that ASIC's characterisation of the transfer of the clients from NSG to Premium "[did] not accurately reflect the reality …" because:
[t]he [Tzouvelis Family Discretionary Trust (TFDT)] owns the database of relevant clients and grants limited licenses to licensees to use that database and provide limited financial services to clients under an appropriate [AFSL]. The TFDT, through entities it controls, has historically transferred these rights to AFSL holders temporarily at the discretion of the TFDT to transfer them elsewhere. Accordingly, the ownership of the relevant database of clients remains under the control of the TFDT. At pages 77 - 100 of AT-1 are copies of relevant agreements showing the licensing of these rights.
103 Mr Tzouvelis was cross-examined about his statement that copies of licence agreements were exhibited, and the truth of his evidence that a licence agreement of the type he described in fact existed, including as follows:
[MS LEVINE] And then you say at the last line of that paragraph:
At pages 77 to 100 of AT1 are copies of relevant agreements showing the licensing of these rights.
Are they the documents you were referring to moments ago when you said that - you gave evidence to the effect that documents in relation to the licensing of the rights were attached to your affidavit? So 77 to 100.
Yes? Yes.
If I take you to page 77. That's minutes of a meeting of Russian Roulette Proprietary Limited? Yes.
That's the former name for Belgian Court Proprietary Limited; is that right? That is correct.
It appears to be undated, and it says it was resolved that the company as trustee for various trusts become an agent for Oceanic Life Limited, etcetera. Is Oceanic Life Limited an insurance product provider? Correct.
This is not a licensing agreement between the Tzouvelis Family Discretionary Trust and Golden financial, is it? This is the - in 1995 representative of - well, 96, is representative of how we started the business and how all the assets, in terms of the insurance companies that I deal with, were all connected to the family trust.
I will ask my question again, though? Yes.
This is not a licensing agreement between the Tzouvelis Family Discretionary Trust and Golden Financial, is it? No, not with Golden.
No? No.
The next documents and agreement between Oceanic Life Limited - we've established that's an insurance product provider, correct, and Russian Roulette? That's former name for Belgian Court. Again, this is not a licensing agreement between Golden Financial and anyone else, is it? And - not with Golden Financial.
No. We can go through this document by document, Mr Tzouvelis, if you wish, but I put to you that nowhere in this bundle at 77 to 100 of your first affidavit is there a licensing agreement to which Golden Financial is a party in respect of the licensing of rights concerning insurance product ..... clients; correct? If it's not there, I'm not sure where it is, but it - it
Well, we can - well ? If that - well, I'm not sure why we would have put it there if it's not in there.
Well ? Yes.
Do you say there is a licensing agreement attached to your affidavit involving Golden Financial? I am going to say to you that what is there has been checked, and that's what we've - what we've produced.
Well, I put to you that there is no document there to which Golden Financial is a party that concerns a licensing of rights by the Tzouvelis Family Discretionary Trust? In here, correct.
You haven't annexed it anywhere else or in this proceeding, have you? I don't - I think this what's - what's here is what it is.
104 It suffices for present purposes to say that, whatever Mr Tzouvelis' answers in response to those questions amount to, the fact of the matter is that the documents that he swore constituted or evidenced a licence agreement between the family trust and Golden Financial did no such thing.
105 Relatedly, Mr Tzouvelis was also cross-examined about the fact that relevant financial statements did not contain any mention of licence fees, including as follows:
[MS LEVINE] Yes. Can I take you to Golden Financial's financial year 2016, audited financial accounts, volume 2.
…
MS LEVINE: This is headed NFG Services Proprietary Limited Another Entity Statement of Comprehensive Income for the Year Ended June 2015, and then over the page, it's Statement of Financial Position for the Company. Can you point me to where anything, in terms of a licensing fee, is recorded as an expense? I am not the accountant.
I'm asking a different question? Yes.
Can you point me to anywhere here where a licensing fee is recorded as an expense paid on the part of NSG? It would be - I would say to you that the answer to that would be the distributions. I don't - I - I rely on my accountants to actually ensure that the accounting is in place and it gets audited.
Do you agree with me there's nothing here that records a licensing fee? I'm sorry, I can't agree with you because I don't actually completely understand. I would like to get these guys to actually point it out to me, and we would then be able to give an accurate answer.
So your position is you, as the director of the company at the time, can't explain to me or the court this financial statement and whether it records a licensing fee you say was payable to the Tzouvelis Family Discretionary Trust pursuant to an agreement that doesn't seem to have materialised?
HIS HONOUR: I don't think the question has been answered.
MS LEVINE: Is the answer no? Sorry, I didn't
I'm sorry, your Honour.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I wasn't sure what the question is. Would you please repeat that?
MS LEVINE: The question is, you, as a director of the company at the time, I say now, are you, that you cannot explain this statement of financial position by the company and whether or not it records the payment of a licensing fee to the Tzouvelis Family Discretionary Trust? My answer to that is that I have the accountants that do their job. We hire - we've got very good qualified people to do their job. They know what the - the overlying principles are in terms of if there's any profit and that - how that gets distributed. That's what I rely on. I don't get involved in the day-to-day accounting. This has not operated
Can I take you to page 690 of the same bundle. Your Honour, it's 690 still of Mr Hsueh's first affidavit.
And, in fact, if you could go to 688, Mr Tzouvelis. You see that's an form FS70 - ASIC form FS70, profit and loss statement and balance sheet. Do you see that? Yes, I do.
And do you see at the bottom there summary and results of AFS licensee financial year to end 2016? Correct.
And if you then go to page 690, it has got your signature at the bottom. Do you see that? Yes, I do.
Is that a - is paragraph 11 - do you see that? That's a certification on your part that the profit and loss statement and balance sheet give a true and fair view of the matters stated in the financial statements, etcetera? Correct.
And yet you're saying now that you weren't yourself reviewing the statement of financial position I took you to before to form a few about its contents and what they are referable to, and you relied wholly on your accountants? I'm saying to you that I relied on the people that I have employed for a long time to do that, correct, and then we had the - these are audited accounts.
I put it to you that nowhere in this statement of financial position is there any express reference for a licensing fee payable to the Tzouvelis Family and Discretionary Trust. That's correct, isn't it? I don't know.
Well, can you read it, please, Mr Tzouvelis, and point me to where it expressly refers to a licensing fee? I - I - I can't actually answer that question because I don't know where that would be - where - where that would be written, but I do know that the accountants understand exactly how we're supposed to be operating.
106 It is again not necessary for current purposes to make any particular observations about those answers, other than to say that the financial statements in evidence for the 2016 and 2017 financial years nowhere recorded the payment of any licence fees by Premium to Golden Financial.
107 ASIC also relied on the correspondence set out above between Zurich and Mills Oakley (Golden Financial's former solicitors) which it contended permitted an inference to be drawn that Golden Financial had at one point told Zurich, contrary to the fact, that it and Premium were not related entities, and that unless Golden Financial produced a deed of assignment assigning for valuable consideration the entitlement to premium income, Zurich would not have agreed to pay such income to Premium.