The book-build (Thursday, 6 August 2015)
84 The book-build commenced soon after ANZ's media release of 8.44 am on 6 August 2015. The evidence includes an example of an email sent by one of the Joint Lead Managers (Citi) to an institutional investor (at 9.02 am on 6 August 2015) (CB tab 162). The subject line stated "NEW CITI DEAL - ANZ - A$2,500 million Primary Placement - BOOKS OPEN". The email commenced with a detailed paragraph regarding the scope of distribution of the communication. It then stated:
By accepting this document, each recipient agrees to be bound by the terms of the Acknowledgements, Important Notice and Disclaimer at the end of this communication.
Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited ("ANZ")
PLACEMENT OF NEW FULLY PAID ORDINARY SECURITIES
Joint Lead Managers, Bookrunners and Underwriters: Citigroup Global Markets Australia Pty Limited ("Citi") Deutsche Bank AG, Sydney Branch ("Deutsche Bank") J.P. Morgan Australia Limited ("J.P. Morgan")
Issuer: Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited ("ANZ")
Ticker: ANZ.AU (listed on ASX and NZX)
Securities Offered: New fully paid ordinary securities ("New Securities")
Offering Structure: Fully underwritten institutional placement of New Securities ("Institutional Placement").
In addition, ANZ will undertake a Security Purchase Plan ("SPP") to provide eligible securityholders in Australia and New Zealand with the opportunity to participate in subscribing for up to a maximum of $15,000 of additional New Securities (subject to compliance with applicable regulatory requirements). The SPP will not be underwritten.
Ranking: New Securities will rank equally with existing securities on issue
Offering Size ($): A$2,500 million Institutional Placement. The Offering Size is fixed and will not be increased
Offering Size (Securities): 80.8 million New Securities for the Institutional Placement (2.9% of issued capital) at the underwritten floor price of A$30.95
Bids Accepted: In 10c increments from the underwritten floor price of A$30.95 up to market
Discount (at the underwritten floor): 5.0% discount to last close of A$32.58 (5-Aug-2015) 5.1% discount to 5-day VWAP of A$32.63 (5-Aug-2015)
Institutional Offering: * The New Securities to be offered and sold in the Institutional Placement may only be offered and sold as follows:
* Australia: The Securities may be offered to "sophisticated" and "professional" investors as those terms are defined in section 708 of the Corporations Act 2001(Cth)
* Rest of World: The Securities may be offered outside the United States to whom an offer can be lawfully made and in "offshore transactions" in compliance with Regulation S under the Securities Act
* United States: solely to (i) QIBs, pursuant to Rule 144A under the Securities Act, or (ii) Eligible U.S. Fund Managers, in reliance on Regulation S under the Securities Act.
Use of Proceeds: Proceeds will be used to supplement organic capital generation since June 2015 and allow ANZ to achieve a Common Equity Tier One (CET1) capital ratio above 9% following the introduction of APRA's revised risk weightings next year
Issuer's Information Materials: An ASX announcement regarding the Institutional Placement and SPP dated 6-Aug-2015 has been filed by the Issuer with the ASX. A cleansing notice which will be issued on or about the Allotment Date.
Timetable*:
Launch: Before market open, Thursday, 6-Aug-2015
Book Opens: On launch
Book Closes (Australia, NZ) 3.00pm, Thursday, 6-Aug-2015
Book Closes (International): 6.00pm, Thursday, 6-Aug-2015
Allocations Advised: Before market open, Friday, 7-Aug-2015
Trade Date (T): Friday, 7-Aug-2015
ANZ recommences trading on ASX: Friday, 7-Aug-2015
Settlement of New Securities (T+3): Wednesday, 12-Aug-2015
ASX quotation of New Securities (T+4): Thursday, 13-Aug-2015
*This timetable is indicative only and is subject to change without notice. All references to time are to Sydney, Australia time.
85 The email contained a section headed "Acknowledgements, Important notice and disclaimer" that included:
By bidding into the bookbuild, you confirm, and will be deemed to have represented, warranted, acknowledged and agreed upon submitting your bid (whether in writing or verbally) and, upon acquiring any New Securities, for the benefit of the Joint Lead Managers that:
…
(d) you are aware that your bid into the bookbuild is a binding and irrevocable offer to acquire the number of New Securities nominated by you (subject to final allocations in the discretion of the Joint Lead Managers) and is otherwise subject to the terms of the confirmation letter ("Confirmation") that will be provided to you by the Joint Lead Managers;
…
(g) you are aware that the Master ECM Terms dated 5 March 2015 (available from the AFMA website) and which may be applied by, incorporated by reference into or amended or supplemented in the Confirmation which will be provided to you separately by the Joint Lead Managers govern your bid and your agreement to acquire the New Securities;
86 During his Section 19 Examination (in a passage relied on by ANZ), Mr Jahrling gave evidence about the book-build process. He said that in the vast majority of cases the processing would occur via the sales trader; once the sales trader receives a bid, they would enter it into a system referred to as TicketManager or Dealogic (being the same system, with different names); the information that would get logged was the name of the client, the name of the sales trader who entered the bid, the order size (in terms of dollar amount), any particular price sensitivity as it relates to the share price, and a contact for the investor. Mr Jahrling said that other people had access to the system, but in most instances the sales traders have responsibility for entering bids. He said it was possible that the sales traders may not have personally received the client bid, but they would act on instructions from someone else to enter the bid. I accept this evidence.
87 In oral evidence-in-chief, Mr Jahrling gave evidence about a reconciliation process took place between the Joint Lead Managers. He gave evidence that Dealogic is the system by which orders are entered into the book by each bank (that is, each of the Joint Lead Managers); those systems are not linked, but they are ultimately linked in that each bank sends their book to the other two "bookrunners"; in this way, all orders are captured, and all the banks have exactly the same information to enable the reconciliation process to take place. During cross-examination, Mr Jahrling gave evidence that if there was a discrepancy as to what an investor had bid, he would expect this to be recognised and addressed as part of the reconciliation process. I accept this evidence.
88 At 12.03 pm on 6 August 2015, Anthony Hanna (Citi) sent an email to Richard Moscati (ANZ) and John Needham (ANZ) attaching the "first bookbuild update" (CB tabs 151, 152). The email was copied to John McLean (Citi), Robert Jahrling (Citi), Michael Richardson (Deutsche), Richard Galvin (JPM) and Richard Newton (JPM). The spreadsheet attached to the email showed the level of demand at various prices (for ANZ shares), ranging from $30.95 per share (in the first column) to $32.25 per share (in the last column). In relation to the $30.95 price, the coverage was 46%. In relation to higher prices, the percentage coverage was lower.
89 Shortly after that email was sent, a conference call took place between the Underwriters and ANZ. It may be inferred from the calendar invitation for the call that Mr Moscati and Mr Needham of ANZ participated in the call. Mr Needham gave evidence in his affidavit (which I accept) that his general recollection is that during a call around this time the first book-build update was discussed, and that the discussion centred around which investors had already bid into the book, as well as which investors ANZ expected to bid into the book throughout the course of the day.
90 At 12.23 pm on 6 August 2015, Richard Moscati (ANZ) sent an email to Shayne Elliott (ANZ) and Jill Craig (ANZ) attaching the 12.03 pm spreadsheet. Mr Moscati's email stated: "slow start, real money yet to show their hand".
91 At 2.34 pm on 6 August 2015, Anthony Hanna (Citi) sent an email to Richard Moscati (ANZ) and John Needham (ANZ) attaching a "second bookbuild update" (CB tabs 182, 183). This email was copied to John McLean (Citi), Robert Jahrling (Citi), Michael Richardson (Deutsche), Richard Galvin (JPM), Richard Newton (JPM), Harry Florin (JPM) and Jessica Lin (Deutsche). The spreadsheet attached to this email was in the same format as the spreadsheet attached to the 12.03 pm email. For the price $30.95, this spreadsheet showed coverage of 81%.
92 Shortly after 2.34 pm, a conference call took place between the Underwriters and ANZ. It may be inferred from the calendar invitation that Mr Moscati and Mr Needham of ANZ participated in this call. Mr Needham gave evidence in his affidavit that it is possible that the notes on the page ending .0008 of his notebook relate to a call around this time. In any event, they relate to a call on the afternoon of 6 August 2015. The notes are as follows:
- Long only funds not there
- Demand
- Rewards for
- Retail
- ANZ Private
- Affiliates of JLMs
- Morgans
- BT Private
- Shaws
- Trading result - be down ~2%
- US
- Couple of big a/cs Hedge
-
- Wellington … Asian
93 In relation to the notes in his notebook generally, Mr Needham gave evidence in his affidavit (which I accept) that he took these notes during various calls and discussions; the notes generally record his impressions or general messages from those discussions rather than necessarily recording verbatim quotes of what was said. Mr Needham gave evidence during cross-examination (which I accept) that: he made the notes at the time of the calls; where he placed a person's name or initials next to a particular text, he was attributing the content of the information to that person and the note reflected the substance of what they said; where he did not record a particular name or initials, the note reflects that someone said something to that effect. Mr Needham accepted that his contemporaneous notes were the best source of information he could provide as to what was said during the calls.
94 In relation to the notes set out at [92] above and specifically the reference to "Long only funds not there", Mr Needham accepted during cross-examination that this reflected something that one of the Underwriters said during the call. Mr Needham also accepted that what he meant by "long only funds" in his note was investors who buy shares on the expectation of the share performing, and typically hold the shares for an extended period of time. Mr Needham gave evidence during cross-examination (which I accept) that the spreadsheet did contain some long-only funds, but the statement that long-only funds were not there was a general statement meaning a large number of them were not there. He accepted that there were far fewer than he had anticipated or expected. He accepted that, at this point in time, this was negative news.
95 Later during the afternoon of 6 August 2015, before the book-build closed at 6.00 pm, a further call took place between the Underwriters and ANZ. The ANZ representatives on the call were Shayne Elliott, Richard Moscati and John Needham. Mr Needham took notes of the call in his notebook (being the notes on the page ending .0009). His notes are as follows:
- Fix at bottom of floor
- Indicate price at lower end?
- Not going
- Revised down 3 - 3.5%
- Perp + UniSuper. BT. Not in.
→ 5% too far
1. $29.75 - $30
2. Banks own it.
- Books close to 100%
- Allocate $1.5 - $1.8 bn
- 92% Coverage
- Provisions spooked 3-4%
96 In relation to the note "Not going", Mr Needham accepted during cross-examination that this was an incomplete note of a negative statement made by one of the Underwriter representatives. He accepted that it had the character of either "not going well" or "not really going" in the sense of not moving.
97 In relation to the reference to "Perp", UniSuper and BT in the notes set out above, Mr Needham gave evidence during cross-examination (which I accept) that this referred to Perpetual, UniSuper and BT, which were very significant shareholders in ANZ. Mr Needham accepted that these were shareholders who, at the start of the day, he had hoped would participate, and hopefully strongly, in the Placement.
98 In relation to the lines beginning with "1" and "2" in the notes set out above, Mr Needham accepted during cross-examination that they were noted in this way because they were two options or two alternatives. He accepted that they were discussed with the Underwriter representatives on the call. He accepted that the first option referred to the prospect of repricing the Placement. In response to questions during cross-examination, Mr Needham said that he did not recall discussing how, practically, they would do this. He accepted that repricing the Placement would be very significant and that it would be negative news. In relation to the second option ("Banks own it"), Mr Needham accepted during cross-examination that the notion of what they would own related to the text a couple of lines further down, where he had written "Allocate $1.5 - $1.8bn"; the notion was that the banks (i.e. the Underwriters) would own the balance. Mr Needham accepted that, during this call, the second option presented to ANZ was for the banks to take between $700 million and $1 billion of shares.
99 Mr Needham gave evidence in his affidavit, which I accept, that: his recollection is that around this time (and potentially on this call) the Joint Lead Managers informed ANZ that the book was close to being fully covered; he also generally recalls that it was around this time that the Joint Lead Managers were recommending that, notwithstanding that the book was close to being fully covered, they would recommend only allocating shares to the value of $1.5 to $1.8 billion to those who had bid into the book.
100 Mr Needham also gave evidence in his affidavit that the Joint Lead Managers said that they made this recommendation because of the number and size of the hedge fund bids in the book, and because there was a risk that over-allocating to hedge funds could cause an unorderly after-market in ANZ shares following the Placement because of the risk of many of those hedge funds being short-term holders of the shares. I discuss later in these reasons whether I am satisfied that the Joint Lead Managers made statements to this effect.
101 Mr Needham gave evidence in his affidavit, which I accept, that: his understanding was that it was preferable for them to hold stock rather than over-allocating to hedge funds; this was because the Joint Lead Managers were large, well-capitalised financial institutions who were paid to take on risk under the Underwriting Agreement, and who had the ability to manage that risk such that they did not need to promptly dispose of any stock allocated to them or to dispose of it in a way that could affect the share price.
102 Subsequently during the afternoon of 6 August 2015, before the book-build closed at 6.00 pm, there was another call between the Underwriters and ANZ. Mr Needham participated and took notes in his notebook (being the notes at the top quarter of the page ending .0010). His notes are as follows:
95% - 99%
• Fid not in. Still here
• Blackrock may come small
103 During cross-examination, Mr Needham accepted that the reference to "Fid" was to the shareholder Fidelity Worldwide Investment, which was a very significant shareholder in ANZ. In relation to the note "Blackrock may come small", Mr Needham accepted during cross-examination that this was a reference, compendiously, to the various Blackrock entities who were the most significant shareholder in ANZ in August 2015. Mr Needham accepted during cross-examination that these notes reflected news from the Underwriters that, for both of those names, there had been no bid yet, but there was a prospect that there may still be.
104 At 4.47 pm on 6 August 2015, Jill Craig sent an email to Richard Moscati and others at ANZ (copied to John Needham and others at ANZ) relating to a draft announcement to be made after completion of the Placement. Ms Craig's email stated:
Given the current progress on the placement I've amended this and we can discuss. I think the more it is purely housekeeping the better
Can discuss further after your next call with the Under Writers
105 The draft announcement attached to the email was marked up to show changes to a previous draft that had been circulated. The attached draft (including the marked-up changes) was as follows:
ANZ successfully completes $[#] $[3] billion institutional equity placement
ANZ today announced it had successfully raised $[#] $[3] billion in new equity capital through the placement of [#] million ANZ ordinary shares at the price of $[#] per share. The placement was significantly oversubscribed, attracting support from a-wide range of institutional investors and consequently a scale back of bids was required.
Settlement is scheduled to take place on [#] 2015, with issue of the placement shares to occur on [#] 2015. The placement shares are scheduled to commence trading on ASX on [#] 2015. The new shares will rank equally with existing shares.
The trading halt that was implemented this morning is expected to be lifted at market open tomorrow morning.
As previously announced, ANZ also intends to offer retail shareholders the opportunity to purchase ordinary shares via a share purchase plan (SPP). The SPP will provide eligible ordinary shareholders with the opportunity, without incurring brokerage or other transaction costs, to subscribe for up to $15,000 worth of ANZ ordinary shares (subject to obtaining necessary relief from ASX). However, ANZ reserves the right to scale back applications under the SPP if total demand exceeds $[#] million. The SPP is open to eligible ordinary shareholders who were registered as holders of fully paid ordinary ANZ shares at 7.00pm (Melbourne time) on [#] 2015. Further details of the SPP will be provided to eligible shareholders in due course.
106 At 5.17 pm on 6 August 2016, a telephone conversation took place between Itay Tuchman (Citi) and Robert Jahrling (Citi). Mr Jahrling was in the United States at the time. A transcript of the conversation is in evidence (FSCB tab 16) (and not subject to any limited use ruling). Apart from some brief remarks at the beginning and end of the conversation, the conversation was as follows:
MR JAHRLING: Hey, um, look, I'm going to have to jump on a flight to Boston, right, at 6 o'clock here, um, 6am. And, um, and so I'm not going to be in this allocation room, right?
MR TUCHMAN: Okay.
MR JAHRLING: And I know obviously we're going to struggle to get this deal over the line, right? I mean, not over the line, but by the time you have to scale and all the rest of it, it's going to be a bit borderline, right? And we're probably going to own some, right, the way it looks at the moment. Can I ask that we please don't blow up all the hedge funds? Like, um, you know, we don't show them any cornerstones and any of our deals. Um, you know, I just don't want to land in Boston and 10 years of work has just been blown to pieces, right? I'm really worried about this, to be honest. So, you know, of course, I'm mindful of our own risk management, but, you know, these guys, they cannot take the numbers that are in that book, right? They're not even going to be close to be able to take those numbers. And I'm really worried that if we just shove it down their throat, the implication it's going to have for us, right?
MR TUCHMAN: Well, I mean, this is what I will say, Rob, because you're in a rock and hard place, because if we take a multi-hundred dollar position and we lose 15 or $20 million on this endeavour, right, you're going to blow up exactly what you're going to blow up but worse. So -
MR JAHRLING: I don't know, I don't know.
MR TUCHMAN: Right. So we're not making a choice between not blowing up some clients and - and - and you know, rainbows and - and - and sunshine, right? So the reason - you know, this is, this is my view, right? You guys put it in the book, right? I'm sensitive to what you have to say. Some of these guys are partners; some of these guys are not partners.
MR JAHRLING: Yeah.
MR TUCHMAN: But we've got to be smart and balance everything, but --
MR JAHRLING: Yeah.
MR TUCHMAN: -- you know, that's why they put big numbers, because they - because they think they're going to get scaled and they want their 50 million, right? And sometimes they get their 50 million; sometimes they get 80 or 90 million, right? Like, that's, that's the bit that we have to balance, right? We have to get the right number. And we're trying hard, I think, to get a few more people on to the book at the last second to try to minimise any of that, right?
MR JAHRLING: Yeah, no, mate. Don't worry, I've still got six guys to follow up, right? So I'm hustling away more than anyone, right. I get that, right? I'm, I'm not sitting here twiddling my thumbs, right, at 3 in the morning, so.
MR TUCHMAN: Yeah. Plus, plus we got these Deutsche and JP guys who, whatever we got, they got, and they're going to try to jam it as, as hard as they can, too, right.
MR JAHRLING: Yeah, no, look, I understand. Right? It's just, you know, like, tomorrow morning we wake up and we, you know, Syndicate (indistinct) and who does it go to? The same people who have shown us the back end of their backside today, right? And the guys that are taking it for us on every deal are the guys that, you know, then the swing factor the other way, right?
MR TUCHMAN: Absolutely.
MR JAHRLING: Up to the absolute hilt, right. So --
MR TUCHMAN: Absolutely.
MR JAHRLING: -- you know, that's - that's just not a great partnership, right? I mean, look, I get it, right. That's the game, but, you know, it's just got to be - I don't know. Let's just be however balanced we can be, right, because it's always like, "Oh, well, they're hedge funds, let's fuck 'em," right. It just, just sits very - it's just a very delicate balance, right.
MR TUCHMAN: I - I - listen, I agree, Rob. I'm not trying to say it isn't. But, but, you know, these are not inexperienced market players, right? They, they, they understand the game they play, and hopefully the ones that are partners are going - I don't think - listen, it's a liquid stock, right. So the thing's not going to drop (indistinct) tomorrow.
(Emphasis added.)
107 During his Section 19 Examination (in a passage relied on by ANZ), Mr Jahrling was asked what he meant by his question "Can I ask that we please don't blow up all the hedge funds?" in the above transcript. He said that he drew a distinction between the allocable amount (i.e. the legally binding offer) and what you could allocate (being the amount that hedge funds and other were accustomed to receiving). He gave the following evidence, with reference to the above transcript:
So, therefore, in my opinion, what I reference here is that if the book were to close in half an hour, as was originally contemplated, and the state of the book, in order for Citigroup and the other JLMs to not ultimately own any shares and without seeing the state of the book but, as I referenced earlier, must have been somewhere near covered or just covered, would have required an allocation percentage - and again I draw the distinction between dollars and percentage - and would have required or would have most likely required an allocation percentage much greater than what they're accustomed to.
So what I refer to here is that I think by allocating a far greater percentage of the demand to those funds, in my mind, ran the risk or would have run the risk that those funds … would have potentially received this as - that the deal may be struggling or that, you know, they'd been over-allocated to what they had potentially anticipated and therefore could have led to heightened volatility in the aftermarket.
I accept that the evidence set out in this paragraph (including the above passage) reflects Mr Jahrling's views.
108 At 5.33 pm on 6 August 2015, a telephone conversation took place between Malcolm Price (JPM), Harry Florin (JPM) and Dave (his surname is not identified). A transcript is in evidence (FSCB tab 17) (and not subject to any limited use ruling). The conversation included:
MR PRICE: Hi, buddy. Can you just tell me where we are on coverage on this thing now, with a few of the London orders (indistinct).
MR FLORIN: Oh, I'm just putting Dave on. One sec.
DAVE: Hi, mate. Hey, um, just one problem we're managing, right? I've just taken a couple of calls. Masso, Trafalgar, et cetera, saying, "Oh, how's it going? I just want a bit of an update". I'm going with a really positive statement. And they're going, "Oh, by the way, just with the allocation process, what we thought we'd be getting is, say, 20 bucks. How does that sound to you, right?" And their bids 100, right? So - and they're saying, well, look, we're hearing a lot of noise from other brokers that it's not going that well". You know, I've been trying to address that, but what they're trying to do now is rather than pull their orders, they're trying to say, "Please do not allocate us", but you know? Which is predictable, right?
MR PRICE: (Indistinct). Yeah, but I mean, you're going to have to manage that, right?
DAVE: Absolutely.
MR PRICE: They, they can't, they can't have the best of both worlds, right?
DAVE: No, no. I know. I know.
MR PRICE: (Indistinct). Come on. You know what it's like. I don't need to (indistinct).
DAVE: I know. I know. I know. But I just want to let you know that, that what we're going to have to do here is fill the domestics, and then we're going to have to scale the hedgies as much as we possibly can and we just have to keep pushing for every additional order we can get until the sun rises tomorrow, with a view that - trying to make it --
MR PRICE: But we're going to allocate this tonight, right? We're not going to have - we're not carrying this over into tomorrow.
DAVE: No, I understand that, but we want to keep taking. Even if we allocate tonight, we - we - we - we may need to sort of be in a situation where we keep soliciting orders out of the US for as long as we possibly can to try to get as much scaling as possible so that this thing trades okay.
MR PRICE: Yeah. Yeah. No, I - I - I get it. Anyway, we'll treat - we're definitely going to try and (indistinct).
DAVE: Yeah. I just don't want to take the foot off the accelerator in terms of - -
…
MR PRICE: And then, look, I guess, you know, we've all got to remember that, you know, cutting back on the hedge funds too aggressively is just putting ourselves in a - you know, all of us in a balance sheet position.
DAVE: Sure. Absolutely. I understand that. I understand.
(Emphasis added.)
109 At 6.00 pm on 6 August 2015, a telephone conversation took place between Sean Larcombe (Citi) and Adam Lavis (Citi). A transcript is in evidence (FSCB tab 18) (and not subject to any limited use ruling). The conversation included:
MR LAVIS: Well, so - so - the - the - it's just [hard] to call, so we - we - it's covered at the bottom end, but that's pre-scaling.
MR LARCOMBE: Right.
MR LAVIS: So, you know, there - there's a chance that we're sort of - there's a chance there's a, say, a 10 per cent rump.
MR LARCOMBE: So there's - so what you're saying is it only barely got covered, then?
MR LAVIS: It's only - yeah, it's only barely covered. Now, there's still, there's still - orders are coming in in fucking fives and 10s and threes and all that sort of stuff.
MR LARCOMBE: Yeah.
MR LAVIS: But we probably need another 100 bucks of orders to get it, you know, to get it to the point where we don't get left with too much of a rump. So the rump is potentially, you know, in the sort of the 75 to $150 million bracket for our share.
MR LARCOMBE: Right. And is it split thirds or each share?
MR LAVIS: It's - we get 40 per cent, so 40, 30, 30.
MR LARCOMBE: Okay. Shit. So okay, so there's going to be a bit of a rump out there, potentially.
MR LAVIS: There - there could be a $250 million rump.
MR LARCOMBE: Yeah.
MR LAVIS: So - um, so I've - I've sold some SPI and some Aussie dollar, which actually has a reasonable correlation against it, just sort of --
MR LARCOMBE: Yeah.
MR LAVIS: -- just to get macro hedge on, in case - because the SPI's obviously - look, I started selling SPI into the close, but we're still sort of going now. So I've got, say, 35 bucks of SPI out, and I've got 25 bucks of Aussie against it. And ah, yeah, and we'll keep - keep working on it. So - John's still, he's still sort of confident. I mean, it's going to depend how much they stuff the hedgies, right?
MR LARCOMBE: Mmm.
MR LAVIS: So --
MR LARCOMBE: The point is - but, I mean, the more they - look, the more as you know, the more they get stuffed full and - I mean --
MR LAVIS: And the worse the fucking follow-on is.
MR LARCOMBE: Yeah. But it's a balancing act, isn't it? See, the fucking (indistinct) --
MR LAVIS: Well, that's - yeah.
MR LARCOMBE: -- carry that really small rump where you go, "Okay, we could get hurt on this." Or you carry a big one. They don't get back, they get scaled back more, but - shit, then you're left swinging in the wind a bit.
…
MR LAVIS: And, you know, a couple of the banks were ripping him. So - so basically, it's 5 per cent down but it's 3 per cent dilutive and there's probably a 2 per cent share price down grade in it anyway, so people are basically buying it flat or buying it at fair value.
MR LARCOMBE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
MR LAVIS: So - which is why a lot of the hedgies haven't --
MR LARCOMBE: Well, they're going to - fucking - they're going to, yeah. If they haven't come in, the ones that have might just flick straight out of it, yeah?
MR LAVIS: Yeah. And and - the - the - the risk is now that obviously --
MR LARCOMBE: What's the split like? How much hedgies and how much flippers do you think are in there?
MR LAVIS: There's- there's a pretty significant amount. I mean, so - look, hedgy demand is 800 bucks.
MR LARCOMBE: Right.
MR LAVIS: So - of which - you know, so there's, there's two and - two and a half yards of shorts in the, in the stock.
MR LARCOMBE: Yeah.
MR LAVIS: So hedgy demand is - is 800, you know, but like, that's - that's putting fucking Regal at 250 and --
MR LARCOMBE: Okay, that's - yeah, they're (indistinct).
MR LAVIS: So hedgy real demand is probably closer to 250, right?
MR LARCOMBE: Yep. Yep.
MR LAVIS: So yeah, so it's going to be a little bit squeaky bum. There's definitely gonna be some. There's definitely going to be some stubs. You know, it's - ah, yeah, we'll all just do what we can to manage the - the overall risk, but yeah, it's going to be - it is potentially going to be - potentially going to be ah, yeah, larger than I - than I expected it to be. …
(Emphasis added.)
110 There is an issue between the parties as to whether the book-build closed at 6.00 pm (which is the time it was scheduled to close). ANZ contends it closed at that time, while ASIC contends it remained open, referring to the fact that the Underwriters continued to seek applications after that time (as referred to in evidence set out below). On balance, I consider that the book-build did close at 6.00 pm. This was the scheduled time for it to close and there was no agreement reached or formal step taken to extend the time. An allocation meeting was held at about this time (as referred to in Mr Tuchman's second Section 19 Examination, in a passage relied on by ASIC) and a proposed allocation was sent to ANZ at 8.35 pm. To the extent that the Underwriters continued to seek applications, this can be seen as seeking applications for shares that the Underwriters would otherwise be taking up.