[2025] FWC 2163
General information, not legal advice.
Fair Work Commission
2025-07-24
Original judgment source is linked above.
(a) the person's employment with his or her employer has been terminated on the employer's initiative; or
(b) the person has resigned from his or her employment, but was forced to do so because of conduct, or a course of conduct, engaged in by his or her employer.
(2) However, a person has not been dismissed if:
(a) the person was employed under a contract of employment for a specified period of time, for a specified task, or for the duration of a specified season, and the employment has terminated at the end of the period, on completion of the task, or at the end of the season; or
(ii) whose employment was for a specified period of time or was, for any reason, limited to the duration of the training arrangement;
and the employment has terminated at the end of the training arrangement; or
(i) the demotion does not involve a significant reduction in his or her remuneration or duties; and
(ii) he or she remains employed with the employer that effected the demotion.
(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to a person employed under a contract of a kind referred to in paragraph (2)(a) if a substantial purpose of the employment of the person under a contract of that kind is, or was at the time of the person's employment, to avoid the employer's obligations under this Part.
Finding regarding whether the Applicant was dismissed
Ms Duncan: "no in all seriousness, I did want to catch up with you and understand how the relationship dynamic we discussed was tracking"
Applicant: "Perhaps a little unfair and too soon to say given i was away. I still felt like there was a frosty atmos whenever we were on meetings together but will see how being in person is.. I had a lot of time to think about things and deal with the mental side of it so I think I'd be less bothered by it if it were to continue (hopefully).. perhaps we check in in a couple of weeks again?"
Ms Duncan: "I'm glad you've had space to process, but I don't feel you should be in position where you need to."
"Let's pick up end of next week? Want to respect your decision not to escalate etc, but I also think it is important we lean in and support resolve."
Been wfh. Not been ruminating or stressing but have been thinking. Few things on my mind:
It was upsetting earlier that the mediation didn't go as I'd hoped. No idea how suggesting we be kind to one another blew things up. Regardless, emotions aside, I don't want to leave. I do like it here. I hear what you said, but Orchard is one of the better agencies I have worked at. I take on your feedback and wise words. I just hope the situation is recoverable.
I've been reflecting on how things went yesterday and tbh I found it pretty upsetting. I had really hoped we'd be able to move forward. I'm still willing to put in any effort to make that happen.
The truth is, I don't care if you dislike me or have an issue with me personally. While I'd love to understand what caused this, I don't need to. What I do care about is being treated with respect and decency. The same that you'd show any other person at Orchard.
The repeated behaviour - ignoring me, undermining me, talking over me, rolling your eyes, excluding me, has all been quite hurtful tbh. I've kept track of over 30 instances of this kind of behaviour since I started working at Orchard. Things like not being asked about lunch or being excluded from conversations like the one about Uber ratings might seem minor. They are in isolation. Perhaps this is me being overly sensitive but when these things happen repeatedly, it starts to feel intentional and excluding.
You mentioned that there's an uncomfortable vibe in the office. There absolutely is. It's hard for others not to notice. Jess in particular, sees it more than most, and it puts her in a tough spot. People have asked me if I'm okay because it's visible that things between us aren't working.
I've tried to handle this professionally. I don't have any personal issue with you. I never have. I've only ever tried to be respectful and focused on our work for the sake of the team, for jess, and for TTAS. But it's gotten to a point where I hesitate to speak up in meetings, both internal and client facing, because of how you react towards me. It's noticeable by all.
I would love for us to put any personal issues or differences aside and work together with mutual respect and professionalism. I'm not looking for a friendship, just a functional working relationship. I've tried to make small efforts to improve things but can refrain from doing so moving forward.
I'd really like to draw a line under this and move forward. I'm not sure how things escalated the way they did yesterday, but I can move past it if you can. I believe we can still work well together on TTAS and be a strong team.
I don't hold any hard feelings. I just want to enjoy coming to work, fell like part of the team, and do great work. I'm sure you want the same.
If I've done or said anything in the past that upset or annoyed you, I'm sorry. I really hope we can put this behind us."
Thank you both for taking the time to meet with me this afternoon. I wanted to follow up to confirm my thoughts and commitments following our conversation.
I fully accept the feedback provided an appreciate being given the opportunity to turn things around during the remainder of my probation period. I acknowledge that I haven't consistently conducted myself at the senior level expected of me recently, largely due to the impact the situation has had on my ability to perform at my best. Moving forward, I will make every effort to demonstrate my full potential and refocus on performing at the high standard that's expected in my role.
I understand your desire to address the two matters separately, but I believe the challenges I've faced are closely linked to the behaviour I've been experiencing. That said, I'm encouraged by the positive steps we've taken over the past few days and remain hopeful that we can resolve these issues without further need for mediation. I am still keen to hear about any next steps from the mediation last week, if required.
I look forward to regrouping in a few weeks to review my progress, and I am committed to ensuring that the situation continues to improve.
And also wanted to follow up and re-iterate what I mentioned re being away. If you need to escalate anything or any issues, AK, Amy and Martin are around to help."
Great to chat briefly yesterday and glad to hear things appear to be going better between you and Izzy!
Do you think it is worthwhile having a check-in session to follow up the last mediation? Keen to ensure things remain on track.
Thank you for putting in a catch up and for the constructive feedback from last week's meeting. I fully acknowledge the areas for improvement, particularly around demonstrating senior-level leadership and contributing to more efficient work processes, and I appreciate the opportunity to work on these moving forward.
That being said, I feel it's important to reiterate that the relationship issues and workplace behaviour I've experienced have had a significant impact on my ability to perform at the level expected of me. While I recognise the positive changes recently, I believe it's crucial to acknowledge that my performance and behaviours are intrinsically linked to the challenges I've faced with Izzy. The repeated instances of undermining and exclusion have affected my ability to contribute fully and have impacted my mental health.
I want to be clear that I am committed to turning things around and will focus on demonstrating the necessary improvements. However, for me to succeed and perform at the senior level expected, I need to be working in an environment where I am respected and collaboration is fostered.
I remain hopeful that we can continue to make progress in resolving these interpersonal issues, as they are key to my ability to meet expectations and fully contribute to the team.
Thank you again for your understanding, and I look forward to continuing to improve in the weeks ahead."[43]
attributed his performance issues to the challenges with Ms Williams, the Applicant's email does not suggest he had concerns about being provided with performance feedback but rather considered that the feedback provided to him was "constructive".
"[47] Having regard to the above authorities and the bifurcation in the definition of "dismissal" established in s.386(1) of the FW Act, we consider that the position under the FW Act may be summarised as follows:
(1) There may be a dismissal within the first limb of the definition in s.386(1)(a) where, although the employee has given an ostensible communication of a resignation, the resignation is not legally effective because it was expressed in the "heat of the moment" or when the employee was in a state of emotional stress or mental confusion such that the employee could not reasonably be understood to be conveying a real intention to resign. Although "jostling" by the employer may contribute to the resignation being legally ineffective, employer conduct is not a necessary element. In this situation if the employer simply treats the ostensible resignation as terminating the employment rather than clarifying or confirming with the employee after a reasonable time that the employee genuinely intended to resign, this may be characterised as a termination of the employment at the initiative of the employer.
(2) A resignation that is "forced" by conduct or a course of conduct on the part of the employer will be a dismissal within the second limb of the definition in s.386(1)(b). The test to be applied here is whether the employer engaged in the conduct with the intention of bringing the employment to an end or whether termination of the employment was the probable result of the employer's conduct such that the employee had no effective or real choice but to resign. Unlike the situation in (1), the requisite employer conduct is the essential element".
"My mental health began to suffer, and I did not feel safe fully disclosing the extent of my mental health challenges to HR for fear of repercussions."
(a) the reason for the delay; and
(b) any action taken by the person to dispute the dismissal; and
(c) prejudice to the employer (including prejudice caused by the delay); and
(d) the merits of the application; and
(e) fairness between the person and other persons in a like position.
Section 366(2)(b) - any action taken by the Applicant to dispute the dismissal
Section 366(2)(c) - prejudice to the Respondent (including prejudice caused by the delay)
Section 366(2)(d) - the merits of the application
Section 366(2)(e) - fairness between the person and other persons in a like position.

[1] Applicant's Form F8 Application, response to q. 1.2.
[2] Applicant's Form F8 Application, response to q. 1.5.
[4] Applicant's Form F8 Application, response to q. 2.2.
[8] Applicant's Form F8 Application, response to q. 2.2.
[10] Applicant's Submissions, Applicant's Form F8 Application, response to q. 2.2.
[11] Applicant's Form F8 Application, response to q. 2.2.
[14] Applicant's Form F8 Application, response to q. 2.2.
[15] Respondent's submissions at [11] - [12].
[16] Respondent's submissions at [13].
[17] Respondent's submissions at [9].
[18] Respondent's submissions at [17], Annexure A.
[19] Respondent's submissions at [17].
[23] Respondent's submissions at [18].
[24] Respondent's submissions at [33].
[25] Respondent's submissions at [41].
[26] Respondent's submissions at [43].
[27] Respondent's Form FD response, Annexure A.
[28] Respondent's submissions at [19].
[30] Respondent's submissions at [21].
[32] Respondent's submissions at [26] - [29].
[33] Respondent's submissions at [47].
[34] Respondent's submissions at [46].
[35] Respondent's submissions at [49].
[36] Respondent's submissions at [51].
[37] Respondent's submissions at [50].
[38] Respondent's submissions at [52].
[39] Respondent's submissions at [69].
[42] Respondent's Form F8D response, Annexure A, Attachment 1.
[43] Respondent's Form F8D response, Annexure A, Attachment 2.
[46] Respondent's Form F8A response, Annexure A at [3].
[49] Respondent's submissions at [55].
[50] Respondent's submissions at [57].
[53] Form F8C application, response to q. 3.1.
[54] Form F8C application, response to q. 3.3.
[55] Form F8 application, response to q. 3.2 and 3.3.
[56] Form F8 application, response to q. 2.2.
[58] Form F8C application, response to q. 3.1.
[60] Respondent's submissions at [58].
[61] Respondent's submissions at [59].
[62] Respondent's submissions at [60].
[64] Respondent's submissions at [61].
[66] Perry v Rio Tinto Shipping Pty Ltd [2016] FWCFB 6963, [41].
[67] Nulty v Blue Star Group Pty Ltd [2011] FWAFB 975, [13].
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Adam Dowoyna-Sylwestrowicz
Orchard Marketing Pty. Ltd. [2025] FWC 2163