First Hadley interview
53 The interview on 21 April 2016 occurred shortly after the High Court allowed Mr Zaburoni's appeal but before the Queensland District Court made its sentencing decision.
54 In the course of the interview, the Minister discussed the gaoling of a person convicted of people smuggling, the stopping of a boat by the Sri Lankan navy and Australia's arrangements with Sri Lanka concerning that activity, the deportation of a non-citizen who had been convicted of the manslaughter of a police officer, an Irish national who had been convicted of assault and domestic politics (particularly in Queensland). Following the discussion concerning the man convicted of manslaughter of the police officer, Mr Dutton said:
Mr Dutton: Well, Ray, (ah) firstly, it's (ah) it's a good thing (ah) that (ah) these people have gone. Our community is a safer place for not having these criminals (ah) walking around amongst us. So the work we're doing, (ah) and we've spoken about it a lot over the course of the last 12 months, a lot of work we're doing in cancelling visas of people who are here as non-citizens, they commit crimes and our numbers are up by hundreds of percent over the last 12 months. (ah) I'm really proud that we've been able to (ah) kick out some pretty serious criminals, who I think would have reoffended.
Now, the difficulty, of course, is (ah) that we've got a generous legal system, there's lots of (ah) pro bono work around, lawyers that (ah) do work for free in this area and the Commonwealth spends millions of dollars each year. In fact I think I'm the most litigated person in the Commonwealth, (ah) the Minister for Immigration gets sued all the time, (ah) we get injuncted and we fight these cases. (ah) In the end, (ah) in many of them we're successful and that's been the case in relation to this matter. (ah) This person has gone back and good riddance really, I think we're a better place without them.
55 Later in the interview, following discussion of issues concerning the Irish national who could not be located, the following interchange occurred:
Mr Dutton: Well Ray, (ah) it's hard again to talk about individual cases until they're finalised, but (ah) many people will come on a tourist visa, (ah) some may come on a working visa, they may come on a partner visa. (ah) So we obviously have millions of people moving across our borders each year and we scrutinise (ah) applications as best we can (ah) within the law. We do a lot of work with intelligence and law enforcement agencies, (ah) but some people come across our borders (ah) who are intent on doing the wrong thing and (ah) in these cases (ah) we work with the police authorities to try and track (ah) individuals down and there are different ways in which we can try and locate people and (ah) if it's (ah) possible, and very quickly, cancel their visas and deport them.
So it will depend on the individual (ah) circumstances, to what visa they came on but (um) we have pretty significant powers under the Migration Act to cancel visas of people that have committed crimes or that have done the wrong thing by Australians.
Mr Hadley: Now, in relation to this bloke, one would imagine he probably got some sort of work visa or holiday visa. Once he's caught, served the 12 months, it would almost be a fait accompli, you'd just pack him off, wouldn't you?
Mr Dutton: If there's a 12 month (ah) sentence, then it'll be an automatic (ah) revocation of his visa because he fails the character test. If he's (ah) involved in a (ah) motorcycle gang, (ah) if he's a child sex offender, there are a number of ways (ah) in which and, you know, we've cancelled over I think almost about eleven hundred in the last 12 months from memory - so a pretty significant number and again I want to ramp that number up over the next year.
(um) And I think this has been one of the really significant achievements (ah) of this government; we've been able to make our society a safer place and that's what getting control of our borders is about. (ah) We want to welcome people that want to come here, spend money, do business, (ah) we want to welcome them in record numbers, but (ah) we want to at the same time cancel visas of people that aren't going to do the right thing.
56 The final interchange related to Mr Zaburoni's case as follows:
Mr Hadley: Okay, just one final one; this circus acrobat that we have spoken about previously, Godfrey Zaburoni. The High Court upheld the appeal, which I can't understand, that he didn't deliberately or intentionally infect his former partner with HIV despite the fact that he had unprotected sex with her and she didn't know he was HIV positive. He is now going to be resentenced. He has already been in for three years and it is obvious that, come I think Friday or early next week, he will be released. He got an Australian visa 16 years ago. What do you do with him? Can he be sent back to Zimbabwe from whence he came?
Mr Dutton: Well I don't, again, I don't want to prejudice a case, but this guy (ah) on what I, on what I've seen publicly is just a grub from start to finish. And (ah) I think we need to have a very close look (ah) at this case with the police. We will wait and see what happens with sentencing and all of the rest of it. But people, again, without commenting on an individual case, if you look at (ah) these sort of facts in a case it (ah) it makes it pretty compelling for us to cancel visas but I want to have a look at it (ah, um) in detail because (ah) we'll see what options are there and again, (um) we don't want people of bad character here. We want to welcome with open arms good people who visit our country, (ah) but we are going to continue to clampdown very hard on criminals and people who really do a great deal of harm to people in the Australian society.
Mr Hadley: I don't expect you to put yourself at odds with the High Court and nor would I. BUT I would simply repeat what I said before. When they upheld his appeal, finding he didn't intentionally infect his former partner with HIV, given he knew that he had HIV, didn't tell her he had HIV, had unprotected sex with her, I don't know where intentional doesn't form part of what the High Court should be all about. I was just stunned by the decision, I can't believe the decision.
Mr Dutton: Yeah, look mate, I, I think (ah) people will make their own judgements when they look at (ah) these cases and no doubt they can provide their feedback (ah) to wherever it might be; the courts or wherever else (ah) but (ah) you and I get into trouble all the time for talking about court cases, where we're completely (ah) at odds with, (um) you know, just, just disbelieving of outcomes. But (um) look I (ah) I think (ah) this case is obviously still before the courts, so let's hope, (ah) let's hope it's a sensible outcome.