[PROSECUTOR]: Your Honour, Your Honour can see Mr [WR] is in court.
HIS HONOUR: Yes.
[PROSECUTOR]: In relation to him giving evidence, of course he's been dealt with for substantive offences but there's cannabis, cultivation, use and ice use that would be part of him giving evidence and it would be appropriate for Your Honour to give him a certificate in accordance, as Your Honour has in the past, and I raise it now because, as Your Honour indicated, you don't necessarily want to interrupt the jury and have these things come up when they ---
HIS HONOUR: All right. Do you want to say anything about that [defence counsel]?
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: I didn't take the point with Muja or anyone else, but I do. If he wants to object in front of the jury to answer some questions, he can do that. Your Honour can explain to him what's going to go on, but once he goes through that he can only object on the grounds of self-incrimination.
HIS HONOUR: Yes.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Well, if he is going to make that objection, he can do that in front of the jury, and then Your Honour can say, 'I've now given him a certificate'.
HIS HONOUR: Why? Why does it have to be done in front of the jury?
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Because he can only take the objection on matters that have a tendency to incriminate him as opposed to, my experience is, a lot of them think, 'Well, I can just, you know, not answer what I don't want to'.
HIS HONOUR: But that's not the way it works. I just don't understand the point. Why does it need to be done in front of the jury?
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Because he takes the oath to answer all the questions and then we get to this issue, is it a question, and answer to which will actually incriminate him in some offending?
HIS HONOUR: It's plain that he is going to be asked some questions about drug related matters, isn't he?
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: Yes.
HIS HONOUR: In respect of which he has not been charged, or if he has been charged they have been withdrawn, I don't know, in respect of which he would be entitled to, on usual principles, to object on the basis that the answers would tend to incriminate him. I would then have the power to rule on that. In the ordinary course I would agree with that, that there is a valid objection, but then explain also that ---
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: The point is the jury would see that he is only prepared to answer some questions unless he's got the gift, the certificate.
HIS HONOUR: All right. What do you say, Mr [Prosecutor]?
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: This is the important witness from my viewpoint.
HIS HONOUR: I understand that.
[PROSECUTOR]: It's not a gift, it's a legal right he's got not to answer questions, and as I understand it Your Honour brought this up so as to circumvent the interruption to the jury, but if that's what [defence counsel] insists upon, then so be it.
HIS HONOUR: All right.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: I am not insisting that the jury go out and we go through the process then. It can be explained to him now and if he takes the objection and Your Honour is satisfied that it's an issue he is going to incriminate himself on potentially, then just say, 'Okay, I now give you the certificate'.
HIS HONOUR: Part of the reason I was keen on the process that I foreshadowed the other day is not to do it on a question by question basis but rather to do it in a blanket way so that you don't have to consider each time whether or not you should ---
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: I'm not asking for it to happen each time. Once he takes objection on the drugs issue, you can say to him, 'I now give you the certificate on any question relating to drugs'.
HIS HONOUR: I'm guessing that might even happen in evidence in chief.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: I don't know what my friend is are you going to ask him questions about ---
[PROSECUTOR]: I'm going to ask him about ice use and cannabis.
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: We'll do it this way.
HIS HONOUR: Which way?
[DEFENCE COUNSEL]: The way my friend and Your Honour says but I don't want it becoming too fractured.