The evidence of Mr Stein
108 At the time of the hearing, Mr Stein held the position of General Counsel - Visy Packaging and Visy International. At that time, he had been an in-house counsel with Visy for nine years and he was an experienced solicitor.
109 Mr Stein deposed (and I accept) that his involvement in the dispute between the applicant and Aus-Lid began around 8 September 2014 when he received a letter from the applicant's lawyers. This letter, which was dated 4 September 2014, stated that the applicant had entered into a Patent Licence Agreement and had thereby acquired "an irrevocable, exclusive sub-licence to exploit Australian Patent No. 754978 ('Patent') and New Zealand Patent No. 503331 for the purpose of the manufacture and supply of, relevantly, containers for pre-packaged food containing dairy products ('Field') in Australia and New Zealand ('Territory')". Omitting formal parts, the letter continued:
Relevantly, the Agreement provides that the sub-licence granted to our client is an exclusive sub-licence in the Field and Auslid must not undertake any commercial activity in the Field or grant any rights in favour of or to any third party in the Field in the Territory.
Our client has recently become aware of a dairy product being sold in Australia by Chobani Australia Pty Ltd ("Chobani") under its brand Gippsland Dairy, in a container that incorporates a spoon under the lid ("Gippsland Container"). The Gippsland Container is marked with "VISY" and we assume is manufactured by or on behalf of your company or one of its related entities.
We also note that the Gippsland Container is marked "PATENTED-AUSLID.COM". In the circumstances, our client assumes that your company, or one of its related entities, has manufactured the Gippsland Container and supplied it to Chobani with the purported licence or authority of Auslid ("Gippsland Container Licence").
It is our client's position that the Gippsland Container falls within the scope of one or more of the claims of the Patent.
As set out above, our client has been granted an irrevocable, exclusive sub-licence to exploit the Patent with respect to the Field in the Territory. The Gippsland Container is not manufactured and supplied to Chobani Australia by our client or with its licence or approval.
Further, Auslid is excluded by the Agreement from exploiting or granting any licence to exploit the Patent with regard to the Field in the Territory and, as such, has no basis to grant the Gippsland Container Licence, which licence our client regards to be in breach of the Agreement.
In the circumstances, and in light of the matters set out above, we ask that you set out in writing, within 7 days of this letter, the basis on which your company (or one of its related entities) purports to have the right to manufacture and supply the Gippsland Container.
110 Mr Stein deposed that, following receipt of this letter, he spoke by telephone to Mr Simon Shale, who was then General Manager of Visy's Food Plastics Division and based in Thailand. Mr Stein said that Mr Shale told him then that Visy had been "granted a verbal licence by Ashlyn de Souza around January [2014]". I accept Mr Stein's evidence in this regard, which was consistent with the evidence given by Mr Shale. Mr Stein said at the hearing (and I accept) he had not been aware of this verbal licence until he had this conversation with Mr Shale.
111 In cross-examination, Mr Stein said in substance that he considered the allegations in Spruson's letter to be serious and to require investigation. He accepted that, when he received Spruson's letter, he would have appreciated that if the applicant's agreement with Aus-Lid was valid and on foot, then Aus-Lid's granting any rights to a third party in the field would mean that Aus-Lid was in breach of that agreement. When asked by counsel for the applicant, "[h]ow can Visy have a licence if someone else has the exclusive licence?", Mr Stein answered:
Well, if that exclusive licence has been amended, or if, you know, Visy's licence may have … come earlier than that.
I discuss below Mr Stein's responses in cross-examination to questions of this kind.
112 Mr Stein deposed that, before receiving Spruson's letter, a Mr Hogan from Visy's plastics business in the innovation department in Melbourne had informed him by email that "he had held discussions with Mr Shale regarding formalising a Visy/Aus-Lid licensing agreement, and also the licensing to Aus-Lid of some automation that Visy had developed to fold the manufactured spoon in the lid". Mr Stein added that the next day Mr Hogan had sent him "some further high level background in relation to these arrangements and on 4 September … provided [him] with a copy of the existing MOU between Aus-Lid and Visy". (The reference to "the existing MOU" was a reference to a Memorandum of Understanding dated 19 July 2012 between Aus-Lid and Visy Packaging (Thailand) Limited (Visy Thailand) (19 July 2012 MOU)). Mr Stein said in cross-examination that he understood that this information was "referring to some form [of] agreement being in place with Aus-Lid that's not entirely satisfactory"; and that he understood the sentence "Cryovac also manufacturing locally. Ashlyn to clarify scenario" in this information to be referring to the applicant's manufacture of the product in Australia. Mr Stein's evidence at this point is discussed below.
113 On 9 September 2014, after his receipt of Spruson's letter, Mr Stein received an email from Mr de Souza informing him that Aus-Lid was in dispute with the applicant and could provide Visy with an indemnity and a "hold harmless" letter. This email was as follows:
Hi Matt,
I spoke with Simon [Shale] last night regarding the Sealed Air Cryovac letter to Chobani and Visy.
We have been in correspondence with them and their Patent attorney for about 6-8 weeks. Our position is as follows:
1. They breached our Licence Agreement by working outside their territory on multiple occasions without consulting us.
There is no written request and no written approval from Auslid. We have a documented email string to support our claim.
2. The new technology that Visy have developed with In Mould Labelling and automation is subject to a new patent application by Visy.
This provides a high end decorative solution with local supply.
We are comfortable to provide you with an indemnity and a hold harmless letter or agreement.
SAC will have to direct their action against Auslid. Where a claim for breach off [sic] agreement will be defended by pointing out the various breaches they caused.
Please let me know if there is a suitable time to call and discuss.
114 Mr Stein said that he had a conversation with Mr de Souza on the day this email was sent, in which Mr de Souza told Mr Stein that the applicant's claims were "without any substance", that the agreement referred to between Aus-Lid and the applicant "no longer applies", and that Aus-Lid had the right to license Visy to manufacture and sell the patented spoon-in-lid product. (I discuss below Mr Stein's evidence about this conversation and his evidence as to what Mr de Souza's communications to Visy led him to believe.)
115 Mr Stein received a further email from Mr de Souza on 12 September 2014, in which Mr de Souza stated:
We have lodged a complaint with the ACCC and will work through them through mediation and try and resolve the situation by declaring the agreement void.
116 In cross-examination, Mr Stein accepted that the email correspondence from Mr de Souza and his telephone conversation with him on 9 September 2014 indicated to him at the time that Mr de Souza and Aus-Lid were in dispute with the applicant over an earlier licence agreement regarding the use of Aus-Lid's patented spoon-in-lid product, and that Visy had some exposure as a result. Mr Stein also said that he thought that the indemnity was "significant to show [Mr de Souza's] confidence", although he "didn't know at the time" whether the indemnity was "worth anything". Mr Stein accepted that Mr de Souza's 12 September 2014 email "reflect[ed] Ashlyn's view" that the agreement with the applicant was on foot, notwithstanding Mr de Souza had previously told him "he thought the agreement had sort of faded away". Mr Stein denied, however, that this raised doubts in his mind about Mr de Souza's veracity.
117 On 12 September 2014, Mr Stein replied by letter to Spruson & Ferguson. The reply was brief. It confirmed that Visy manufactured the Gippsland Container to which Spruson's letter referred. It also stated that Visy "has in place a licence agreement with Auslid enabling [Visy] to utilise certain patent rights held by Auslid". This letter concluded:
We have … contacted Auslid … and have been assured that the rights of the Visy group to manufacture the Gippsland Container are not compromised. In the circumstances we suggest that your client takes up its concerns directly with Auslid.
Mr Stein's responses to the applicant's lawyers' letters and more generally are discussed below.
118 In cross-examination, Mr Stein confirmed that in approaching the matter he had ascertained the nature of Visy's investment and legal exposure, and that at the time he understood Visy to have invested approximately $2 million (being a "significant amount") in tooling and machinery in order to meet Visy's commitment to Chobani to supply it with an IML spoon-in-lid product. He agreed that this factor and Visy's loss of revenue if Visy had to stop making the patented spoon-in-lid product went "into the whole matrix of considerations at the time". In addition, he said that: "it was clearly in our commercial interest to keep [supplying Chobani]. Otherwise, potentially, you know, we may open ourselves up to … a lawsuit from Chobani"; and "we weren't going to just stop supply to Chobani on a whim, put it that way".
119 With respect to the applicant's claim to have an exclusive licence, Mr Stein said, in substance, that he relied on Mr de Souza's account, including that the applicant had breached its agreement with Aus-Lid. He also said in cross-examination that he understood Mr de Souza's statements to him at the time showed that Aus-Lid believed it was no longer bound by the licence agreement with the applicant, either because that agreement was no longer on foot or because, if on foot, it was liable to be declared void. Mr Stein said that he thought then that the information Mr de Souza had given to him indicated that there were good grounds for believing that the applicant was in breach of its agreement with Aus-Lid, and that this might have resulted in a repudiation of the licence agreement. When challenged about this in cross-examination, Mr Stein said that he recognised that there was "potential … for some overlap" between Visy's and Aus-Lid's rights; that "there was an issue that needed to be resolved"; that the exclusivity of the applicant's licence depended on the terms of that licence; that there were "a whole number of reasons why that licence may no longer be on foot"; and that "we didn't have the full picture". I return to Mr Stein's evidence below.
120 Mr Stein did not recall asking Mr de Souza to explain his understanding of Aus-Lid's position. Mr Stein did not ask him for any further information (for example, for the email chain said to support Aus-Lid's position) that might have shed light on the reliability of Mr de Souza's stated understanding. Mr Stein said in cross-examination that he did not inquire as to whether Aus-Lid had taken any independent legal advice. Mr Stein also said that he did not form a view about whether Mr de Souza's understanding was correct, including as to whether or not the licence agreement between Aus-Lid and the applicant was still on foot. As already indicated, the effect of this evidence is discussed below.
121 On 15 October 2014, Mr Stein received a second letter from Spruson & Ferguson. This letter stated that "we are concerned that the basis on which you have been led to believe that the Visy group has the rights to manufacture the Gippsland Container is not correct". Specifically, the letter offered to provide a copy of the licence agreement between the applicant and Aus-Lid to Visy's independent legal advisors, on a confidential basis, "for the purpose of providing to you legal advice with respect to the Visy group's position" and "in consideration for [Visy] providing to [the applicant's lawyers] … a copy of the Visy Agreement".
122 Mr Stein said in cross-examination that he subsequently spoke to Mr Kortian, a solicitor with carriage of the matter at Spruson & Ferguson, to discuss why he did not propose to accept Spruson's proposal. Mr Stein said that he told Mr Kortian that "we didn't have independent legal advisers engaged in this" and that he did not think that "just sighting a copy of the licence agreement would necessarily resolve the issue".
123 Mr Stein also provided a copy of Spruson's letter to Mr de Souza. Mr de Souza responded by email on 17 October 2014, stating that "[y]ou may handle this matter in any way you think fit", and reiterating that he had provided Visy with an indemnity for the Gippsland Dairy product. The email added that:
We are considering our position in terms of a license with Visy, which right now is not acceptable, and we are quite happy to continue to operate under our current M.O.U.
I have also received a letter asking to meet, in order for us to come up with a commercial arrangement that suits all. We may consider that proposal and meet with them or resolve the matter through the ACCC.
124 In cross-examination, Mr Stein said that, when he spoke with Mr Kortian in October 2014, he was aware that the documentation of Visy's licensing agreement with Aus-Lid was less than ideal; that the arrangement "wasn't heavily documented"; and he acknowledged the legal risk "wasn't going away". Yet he said that he did not see the need to engage external lawyers at that stage. Mr Stein said that he believed that the 20 July 2012 MOU (to which Mr de Souza's 17 October 2014 email referred) was "part of [the] evidence of the licensing arrangement" between Visy and Aus-Lid and outlined the royalty rate applicable for exploiting Aus-Lid's monopoly rights as agreed between Mr de Souza and Mr Shale in January 2014. While he accepted that the MOU was with Visy Thailand (not the fourth respondent) and that it specifically excluded from its reach "Dairy in Australia", he maintained that the exclusion had been overtaken by the agreement reached between Mr Shale and Mr de Souza in January 2014. I return to the effect of Mr Stein's evidence below.
125 On 27 November 2014 Mr Stein received a third letter from Spruson & Ferguson. The substance of this letter was as follows:
As you are aware, our client's wholly owned subsidiary [Cryovac] entered into a Patent Licence Agreement ("Cryovac Agreement") with [Aus-Lid] on 29 January 2011, whereby [Auslid Operations], as the exclusive licensee of [Aus-Lid Enterprises] granted to our client an irrevocable, exclusive sublicence to exploit Australian patent No. 754978 ("the Patent") and New Zealand Patent No. 503331 for the purpose of the manufacture and supply of, relevantly, containers for pre-packaged food containing dairy products ("Field") in Australia and New Zealand ("Territory").
By your letter dated 12 September 2014, you confirmed that your company manufactures the container sold by Chobani Australia Pty Ltd under its Gippsland Dairy brand that incorporates a spoon under the lid ("Gippsland Container"). As you are aware, it is our client's position that the Gippsland Container falls within the scope of one or more claims of the Patent. Furthermore, it is clear that the Gippsland Container is being offered for sale in the Field in the Territory.
On 23 October 2014, by telephone call to the writer, you confirmed that Auslid has granted to your company a licence to exploit the Patent in Australia ("Visy Licence") This was also confirmed by email from Robert Kaye to John Mitton on that same date.
As you are aware, it is our client's position that each of [Aus-Lid Enterprises] and [Auslid Operations] has breached the terms of the Cryovac Agreement by, inter alia, granting, or permitting to be granted to your company, the Visy Licence. Accordingly, in circumstances where Auslid have granted to our client an irrevocable, exclusive sub-licence to exploit the Patent with respect to the Field in the Territory, which licence excludes Auslid from exploiting or granting any licence to exploit the patent with regard to the Field in the Territory, it is our client's position that:
(a) Auslid has no basis to grant the Visy Licence;
(b) the Visy Licence is invalid; and
(c) your company has been manufacturing and selling the Gippsland Container in the absence of a valid and effective licence.
…
(Emphasis original)
The letter demanded that Visy provide an undertaking to cease manufacture, distribution and sale of the patented spoon-in-lid product.
126 Once again, Mr Stein forwarded Spruson's letter to Mr de Souza. Mr de Souza replied on the same day (3 December 2014). His email relevantly stated:
… We have met with them on two occasions, and they have clearly breached our agreement and have provided them with proof.
The last meeting I had with them it was clear they would not take any action against us and I communicated this to Simon [Shale].
…
I have stated that we have an indemnity agreement in place. I did not discuss anything other than it is now a non exclusive agreement.
Not sure why you have advised them that you have a license agreement with us as yet covering dairy. This is the leverage they are trying to use on us. … We will handle that side of it as we believe that we can negotiate a deal with them.
Our position is the following:
1. They breached the agreement by working outside their territory on several occasions.
2. They refused to invest in IML when the market wanted the same Visy did.
3. Visy and Auslid have a larger agreement now after the investment.
4. The IML lid locally produced is subject to a new patent application and is an Improvement.
…
127 Mr de Souza sent Mr Stein a further email on 5 December 2014, reiterating that he had advised the applicant that it was in breach of the exclusive licence agreement with Aus-Lid "by working outside the territory on a number of occasions" and that "[t]he non exclusive arrangement that we have in place with Visy will stand … we have not restricted [the applicant] from acting in the territory; they have a non exclusive arrangement as well". As already indicated, I return to Mr de Souza's communications with Mr Stein below.
128 On 17 December 2014, Mr Stein replied to Spruson & Ferguson in the following terms:
We note that:
1. We have not sighted a copy of the document you term 'the Cryovac Agreement', and are not in a position to comment on its existence, contents or validity.
2. We have again contacted Auslid in light of your letter of 27 November 2014, and again have been assured that any rights that your client has to exploit the Patent (as defined in your letter) are non-exclusive, and the rights of the Visy group to manufacture the Gippsland Container are valid and effective.
As already indicated, I discuss below Mr Stein's correspondence with the applicant's solicitors.
129 In cross-examination, Mr Stein was taken to an email dated 18 December 2014 from Mr John Mitton, one of the applicant's senior executives, to Mr Robert Kaye, Visy's General Counsel (neither of whom gave evidence). This email indicated that the applicant might well bring legal proceedings against Visy. Mr Stein's evidence was that he forwarded Mr Mitton's email to Mr de Souza, with a note that in his view it was "in everyone's best interests" for the matter to reach "a sensible commercial resolution". Mr Stein acknowledged in effect that at this point he did not make further inquiries of Mr de Souza regarding Aus-Lid's claimed proofs of the applicant's breaches.
130 On 23 December 2014 Mr Stein received an email from Mr Kortian of Spruson & Ferguson attaching redacted copies of the Patent Licence Agreement of 9 January 2011 and a Deed of Amendment of 31 May 2012. Mr Stein deposed that he noted at the time that the applicant did not appear to have validly executed the documents. This was because the signature of only one of Cryovac's directors appeared on the Patent Licence Agreement without the company's corporate seal and the Deed of Amendment did not appear to have been executed at all. In cross-examination, however, Mr Stein accepted that s 127 of the Corporations Act did not limit the ways in which a corporation could validly execute an agreement. Further, when he was asked why he did not take up his concerns with Spruson & Ferguson, he said that he did not consider that further inquiries would be "conclusive" of the question of whether the applicant's licence remained on foot.
131 In addition, Mr Stein said in cross-examination that because the documents had been redacted, he had no confidence that they represented the entirety of the arrangements between Aus-Lid and the applicant. Having regard to Mr de Souza's assertions, the redacted copy of the Patent Licence Agreement did not, he said, lead him to conclude that Aus-Lid could not validly grant Visy a licence to supply the patented spoon-in-lid to Chobani. In this context, he also said that he had not sought further information from Aus-Lid. He had not, moreover, put what information he had to the applicant, because he did not think that this would resolve the dispute. The applicant was, he said, already aware of Aus-Lid's position. Mr Stein affirmed that "there was a dispute clearly going on around whether or not that licence had been repudiated, amended, changed and that was part of the context at the time".
132 On 23 December 2014, Mr Stein sent Mr de Souza an email in the following terms:
We note Auslid's position … is that subsequent events have resulted in an amendment of the licence such that it is now non-exclusive, so Visy's right to utilise is not compromised - but in any event Ashlyn note that neither the licence agreement nor the amendment provided to us by [Spruson & Ferguson] appear to have been properly executed by [the applicant], so there may also be a validity question resulting from that (I'm not sure whether any fully executed documents exist).
We intend to respond to Sprusons stating that nothing in the attached changes our position, and again suggest that [the applicant] seek to sort the matter out direct with Auslid. It does appear likely though that they will issue proceedings, so Ashlyn I suggest you prepare for that and/or seek to resolve with them promptly to avoid the costs associated [with] that.
133 This email led to the following exchange between Mr Drew, counsel for the applicant, and Mr Stein:
Mr Drew: So you were proceeding on the footing that there was a licence in the Cryovac sublicense but it was now non-exclusive?
Mr Stein: Well, they may well have had some right to use.
Mr Drew: Right?
Mr Stein: Because if they were supplying to other customers, for example, or if they were supplying to Chobani at the time then they would have had a right to use - to exploit the patent. So I really, like I said, didn't have the full circumstances. I'm reciting back to them what Ashlyn had told us.
Mr Drew: Now, as an experienced and qualified solicitor, how would a breach of contract by Cryovac of the sublicense that you had in your hands have amended it from being exclusive to non-exclusive?
Mr Stein: Well, it may well have repudiated. The repudiation might have been accepted and instead a non-exclusive licence forms into its place.
Mr Drew: A non-exclusive by implication?
Mr Stein: Well, by implication I mean if Aus-Lid was still allowing Cryovac to continue to supply this to some customers, then there would by implication be a non-exclusive licence. I don't know. I didn't have those, you know, factual circumstances with me.
Mr Drew: You're making this up as you go along, aren't you?
Mr Stein: No. I'm not making this up.
134 Ultimately, Mr Stein was driven to repeat in substance his earlier explanation. He said:
There was clearly a dispute going on between Aus-Lid and Cryovac. It was not clear … whether the licence was still on foot, whether it had been amended. There was a matrix of circumstances there. And we weren't in a position to assess who had what rights. We were getting advice from Sprusons on the one side representing our competitors. Who, of course, have got a certain self-interest. And we were getting other advice from the licensor.
… So it was a difficult position to be in.
135 It appeared that, so far as Mr Stein was concerned, apart from a court order, Visy would not have stopped supplying the patented spoon-in-lid product to Chobani unless Aus-Lid had said that it considered the Patent Licence Agreement to be valid but intended to breach it. (Mr Stein's evidence about his receipt of the applicant's documents and their effect on his thinking is discussed below.)
136 In cross-examination, Mr Stein accepted that, in the period he was corresponding with Spruson & Ferguson, on instructions from Mr Shale and Mr Hogan, he was also drafting documents to formalise the licensing arrangements between Visy and Aus-Lid regarding Aus-Lid's patented spoon-in-lid product. He said that he understood that the documents he was drafting built on the licence that Aus-Lid had verbally granted in January 2014, although he accepted that he was involved in a process that was not merely seeking to document the pre-existing position but also involved changes to that position, including with respect to the royalties that Visy would pay Aus-Lid in the future. Mr Stein accepted that, as part of that process, Visy sought to capture the indemnity that had been promised by Aus-Lid against any legal claims the applicant asserted under its sublicence. He also accepted that, in substance, one of the purposes of formalising the documentation was to diminish or remove any legal risk to which Visy might be exposed, including as a consequence of litigation involving the applicant. He agreed that, in an evidentiary sense, Visy was "in a better position" if the licence granted verbally in January 2014 was written down.
137 Although Mr Stein deposed that Aus-Lid and Visy believed that they had reached agreement on matters of material substance by the end of October 2014, negotiations in fact continued to the end of December 2014. On 29 December 2014, Visy and Aus-Lid executed an Intellectual Property Licence, a Distribution and Intellectual Property Access Deed and an Intellectual Property Indemnity Deed (December 2014 documents). Mr Stein deposed that when he eventually received a copy of the Patent Licence Agreement from the applicant's solicitors, he "saw no reason why Visy and Aus-Lid could not proceed on 29 December 2014 with the execution of the three agreements". (I discuss below Mr Stein's evidence regarding the drafting of the December 2014 documents.)
138 On 18 July 2017, Visy agreed with Chobani to extend the agreement they had made in September 2013 for the supply of IML lids. Mr Stein accepted in cross-examination that the 18 July 2017 agreement included some recognition of the legal risk that Visy had accepted by continuing to supply the patented spoon-in-lid products. This recognition was expressed in the statement in the agreement that:
Visy has licensed the rights to manufacture this product from a third party patent holder who has continued to confirm Visy's licence is valid. However, this use by Visy has been objected to by a third party. In the event that in the future Visy is unable to continue to supply this specific lid and spoon to Chobani then Visy shall provide alternate design(s) for Chobani review, and the parties shall then use their respective best endeavours to approve such alternate design and proceed to its commercial supply as soon as is practicable.