DEFENCE COUNSEL: If one does achieve maximum length by putting the hooks in that position, that is, deliberately so, then that significantly reduces the viability and the safety and the welfare of the ladder and its user?---Yes. Well I know that, I'm the engineer.
Mr Rees also knows that - - -
HER HONOUR: Well how can he say what Mr Rees knows?
DEFENCE COUNSEL: Sorry Your Honour?
HER HONOUR: How can he say what Mr Rees knows?
DEFENCE COUNSEL: I'm putting the proposition to him with respect, Your Honour. I'm not asking him what - I'm putting the evidence to him - - -
HER HONOUR: You can't ask him what's in the mind of one person - - -
DEFENCE COUNSEL: No, I'm putting the evidence to him, I have to put my case. (To witness) Mr Rees also knows that to use an extension ladder in the overextended position is to use a ladder in a dangerous set of circumstances. Now having said that, when one gets onto a ladder, if you physically go and just touch it yourself, it's easier if the ladder is appropriately overlapped - appropriately overlapped - and you can feel some stability in the ladder, correct?---It's very subjective.
If it's not appropriately overlapped, there is a significantly less amount of stability in the ladder, is that correct?---It depends on the experience you have, it depends on - - -
No, I'm asking you to assume this is a man who has a lot of experience and who teaches students about ladders?---Sir, you're asking me to assume that if overlapped correctly it'll be more stable, more rigid then it overlapped more - overextended - - -
Yes?---I daresay it would be - there should be no support - - -
Yes?---Reduction in it was (indistinct).
And a man experienced in ladders, that noticeable reduction and stability would be known to someone experienced in ladders, do you agree with that?---Again, as - as a lay person I would say yes, not as an expert.
And even as an expert - and bearing in mind the 40 odd plus years of experience using ladders and as a teacher of plumbing students using ladders - that plumber with that - - -
PLAINTIFF'S COUNSEL: Your Honour, I object in this way. I don't remember ever being put to Mr Rees at any stage during his evidence that he did, or should have noticed a difference in the stability of the ladder, because of the manner in which it was extended. Now if I'm wrong about that, and if it was put to Mr Rees, then no doubt my learned friend can refer us all to where this was said, but I have absolutely no recollection of it.
If this is to be put to this man on the basis that that was the evidence of Mr Rees, it ought to be put correctly.
HER HONOUR: Is that the situation, [defence counsel], did you put that - - -
DEFENCE COUNSEL: It matters not if I did, or didn't. It's a matter of whether - - -
HER HONOUR: [Defence counsel], did you put that?
DEFENCE COUNSEL: I'm sorry?
HER HONOUR: Did you put that to Mr Rees, that he felt the difference in the stability that he's felt, and his experience should have told him from the two things, one, being correctly overlapped and one being overextended - - -
DEFENCE COUNSEL: Yes.
HER HONOUR: - - - that he could feel the difference?
DEFENCE COUNSEL: Yes.
HER HONOUR: Can you just take me to it?
DEFENCE COUNSEL: I can't at the moment, but I'll find it Your Honour. (To witness) If the position is this, that when the ladder is in the overextended position one's able to visualise that when one is on the first, or second step, do you agree with that?---You - you should be able to.
It says in your report and I'll read it to you - at p.2 of your first report - 'The stop was there with the intention' - what was put to him, Your Honour, in answer to your question was, 'You didn't test it before you got on it. I want you to answer my question, did you test it before you got on it?' His answer was: 'I may well have.'
HER HONOUR: That's not the question of did he feel any difference, is it?
DEFENCE COUNSEL : If you tested the ladder before you got on it would you be able to - with someone with that experience, would you be able to understand the nature of its configuration by reason of its stability, or otherwise - - -?---If tested you would see whether - - -
PLAINTIFF'S COUNSEL: Your Honour, that question is open to the same objection. None of this was put to Mr Rees. It was never put to Mr Rees - according to my recollection - that he noticed, or should have noticed some difference in the stability of the ladder by reason of its configuration. If it wasn't put to Mr Rees, there's no evidential basis for it to be put to this witness, because there's no evidence on what it can be based.
HER HONOUR: What do you say, [defence counsel]?
DEFENCE COUNSEL: Look I'll pass on - I want to just get on with it - I'll pass on, Your Honour.