MR GALVIN: I have some instructions Your Honour. Your Honour I'm instructed the trustee company, the plaintiff and the liquidator will take up the claims again against Mr Velos and against Mr Tiwari. I should say to Your Honour though, without explaining to Your Honour as Your Honour doesn't need to hear of course, why these matters were not pursued in the way they might have been.
Your Honour will recall that Mr Handberg was appointed in replacement of Mr Horne and Mr Vince some time ago, by the court. Since his appointment he has had access to very limited funds. Indeed the reason we're all here partly is because funds had to be extracted from - we say, against the party holding them and deposited into court.
Even still Mr Handberg does not have resources with which to conduct the sort of due diligence, if you like or investigation, that one would ordinarily expect from a liquidator before he or she embarked upon the sort of litigation that Your Honour has made rulings about. I mean beyond priorities.
I only say that Your Honour because he is a court officer. I'm instructed to advance an explanation as to why he might not have pursued these matters in the way they might ordinarily have been pursued. We will however, pursue them. There is an anxiety about the potential for adverse costs orders. I don't expect Your Honour to make any ruling or comment on that now.
For example, if the case against Mr Velos were to fail, Mr Velos was to seek costs against the company or Mr Handberg personally, those are issues which might arise, which we're anxious about.
We have a degree of knowledge about the Velos charges, but not a full detail - there are 18 boxes, I'm instructed, of documents relating to that litigation, or 16 whatever it is. But, we consider that there is a basis for bringing the claim and on that basis we will prosecute it Your Honour.
What I proposed Your Honour is that I know there have been several rounds of pleadings and statements of facts and contention. We will have a further attempt at, with Your Honour's leave, a single document which will bind together all of the claims we make against all of the parties, including these claims.
With Your Honour's leave we'd filed that document within perhaps three weeks I would seek Your Honour. The intention would be to give Mr Donald and my learned friend Mr Hamlyn-Harris all of the particulars they would need to understand and meet the claim, the claims against their clients.
HIS HONOUR: Well, I think I should make a comment. First of all my ruling should not be taken to contain any criticism of the conduct of the litigator.
MR GALVIN: I've not take that way Your Honour.
HIS HONOUR: I really mention it because as all parties had been urging on me, other than Mr Malhotra, they'd been urging on me that his interest is really as a beneficiary of a trust. When one stands back and thinks about it then as I said in my ruling, without referring to any cases, it's pretty fundamental that the primary duty to look after the trust as is falls on the trustee, in effect, the court may not permit a beneficiary to interfere.
But, on occasion where the trustee can't act because it's got no funds or refuses to act, then a beneficiary might be given leave to bring the proceedings. Mr Malhotra hasn't defined all this and the proceedings would be brought on behalf of the trust. That's different as arise here because the litigant personally doesn't understand those subtleties.
MR GALVIN: I know.
HIS HONOUR: That's why in an ideal world that any claims would be made by the trustee, but as you say the trustees got limited resources.
MR GALVIN: Your Honour, notwithstanding the absence of resources or their current state in two places primarily the courts coffers and a vacant piece of land at Hillside. The liquidator will, in a sense relieve Your Honour of the obligation of having to deal with it through Mr Malhotra as a beneficiary. Your Honour will not then have the need to concern yourself with the litigant in person.
HIS HONOUR: The problem was, as you can see, that when you raised it, the issue, one can draw the inference there was reasonable grounds for the allegation. Whether you succeed I don't know.
MR GALVIN: Yes.
HIS HONOUR: Then you have a litigant in person there whose saying the money shouldn't go to these people and the trustee had already articulated the grounds.
MR GALVIN: Yes.
HIS HONOUR: I was left with that dilemma of how to deal with it.
MR GALVIN: I understand the dilemma Your Honour and hopefully if we proceed this way, Your Honour will find it more convenient.
HIS HONOUR: That would be a far more sensible way of dealing with it and I would probably encourage you to talk to Mr Malhotra on the basis that what you're doing is in his interests.
MR GALVIN: In his interest.
HIS HONOUR: As the trustee. Of course he would want to know what you're up to and he may well then come back and say to me I adopt the arguments of the trustee.
MR GALVIN: He may have arguments of his own as well.
HIS HONOUR: He may have some others, but he may come back and say I'm satisfied.
MR GALVIN: That's right, yes, Your Honour.
HIS HONOUR: Thank you. Now, Mr Malhotra, in my ruling I assumed you were adopting the arguments that the trustee had initially put forward attacking the securities.
MR MALHOTRA: Yes, Your Honour.
HIS HONOUR: Yes, now you've heard Mr Galvin say that the trustee is now prepared to reinstate those allegations and continue with them, which in part attacked the efficacy of both the Velos charges and the ANZ securities and also - yes, and to do that, Mr Galvin agrees that the case should be adjourned so that those claims can be particularised. Mr Donald wants, so far as the ANZ - so far as Tiwari is concerned, wants them particularised.
MR MALHOTRA: Yes, Your Honour.
HIS HONOUR: Mr Donald has said they've got a good defence. They say that there was moneys owing to Sheela Tiwari and that the money was borrowed to repay the loan, and he wants time to put documents in to establish that defence.
So the application by Mr Donald for an adjournment is supported by Mr Galvin. Do you have anything to say about it?
MR MALHOTRA: No, Your Honour, I'm in your hands.