April 2014 - NBS discovers discrepancies
91 In April 2014, NBS employed for the first time an in-house accountant, Mr Nishan Joseph. Mr Joseph was employed as the NBS general manager, responsible, among other things, for managing the process of novating the bus leases from Busaways to NBS, and for implementing new systems more efficiently to structure the NBS business in the lead up to the commencement of the region 15 contract.
92 In August 2014, after NBS had commenced performing the bus services under the region 15 contract, Mr Joseph decided to review NBS's bus lease obligations and cash flow, including, among many other bus leases in the Calabro group of companies, the leases in respect of the transfer-in buses for region 15. Mr Joseph started the review by comparing the lease payments made by NBS to Westpac in relation to the transfer-in buses with payments that NBS sought from TfNSW to cover the cost of those buses. Understandably enough, Mr Joseph expected the latter to cover the former. But he discovered a $71,000 monthly shortfall. Immediately, that is on 20 August 2014, he contacted Mr Pfirter, asking for an explanation of the discrepancy, in these terms:
"Hi Emilio: I've been looking at the bid values for buses, given that we have started to pay the relevant leases. I noticed a discrepancy between what we are actually paying for the leases on the transferred buses, compared with what's there in the bid.
Bid: Table 1C = $1851k/annum (i.e., $2007k less 156K for four buses purchased outright by Busways)
= $154K/month
Actual lease payment per month = $222k (payment to Westpac for the novated leases)
I've been trying to see what could be the reason for the discrepancy. Am I missing something? I've also had a chat with Joe to see if he can recollect…
Can you please enlighten once you've had a look at your workings.
Appreciate your time on this.
Thanks and regards
Nishan
93 The next morning, at 9:47am, Mr Pfirter sent an email to Mr Joseph, copied to Mr Joe Calabro, by way of reply to Mr Joseph's email the day before, although the email did not actually address the substance of Mr Joseph's question.
94 The same day Mr Pfirter had a telephone conversation with Mr Joseph in which they agreed that the issue was something that they would need to bring to Mr Stewart's attention.
95 At 11:28am on 21 August 2014, Mr Pfirter wrote an email to Mr Stewart in these terms:
Hi Ian
How are you.
I just left a message on your mobile.
I think we have an issue with Fleet regarding Region 15 (Joe Calabro)
Appreciated if you could give me a call to discuss (sic).
Cheers
96 Mr Stewart was on vacation in far North Queensland. He was on a boat and out of email contact at the time the email was sent. When the boat returned to shore that afternoon, Mr Stewart checked his emails. He also asserted in cross-examination that he had listened to the voice message on his mobile referred to in Mr Pfirter's email. Records obtained by the solicitors for the respondents after Mr Stewart made that statement in the witness box, I was told, showed that the voicemail message was 50 seconds long. (It was not possible to retrieve the message). In oral evidence, Mr Stewart stated that he did not have a clear recollection of exactly what was said in the voicemail, but, in cross-examination, suggested that he became aware of the "possibility of an error" through the voicemail message. No such assertion was made in his witness statement or in his evidence in chief.
97 At 4:38pm Mr Stewart sent an email to Messrs Burton, Schonberg and Pfirter, as follows:
A couple of thoughts:
1. The subsequent work on a 3 way needs to be looked at. I recall having Emilio reconcile the profit and I think cash per that to the bid.
2. The price was set targeting a particular rate per klm. It was certainly influenced by cost data but Joe was chasing a price.
3. Do we have signed off assumptions documents? If so what do they say about bus capital?
4. Joe needed some additional fleet outside his own resources. Was he able to get that at a satisfactory price? Did he transfer older fleet from Region 2 across that had a low value? Do we need to assess the whole bus capital amount and not just this bit?
Thanks. Back in Melbourne on the weekend.
Ian
98 About an hour later, Mr Burton replied to Mr Stewart's email (copied to Mr Schonberg and Mr Pfirter) as follows:
Thanks, Ian. We are on it.
In the first instance we'll send:
The trail-Fleet tool, Bid document, data room documents regarding transfer fleet, later 3 way model. [Mr Pfirter] is getting that together now and will send it off tonight.
I will pull out the formal trail - engagement letter, T & C, Assumptions documents, lodgement authority and then look at your additional thoughts below.
Mark
99 About an hour after that, at 6:24pm on 21 August 2014, Mr Pfirter emailed to Messrs Stewart, Schonberg and Burton as follows:
Ian
Please find attached the following documents
Tender analysis Option D (option chose (sic) for submission)
Tender Analysis Option d v2.0 (including cash flow analysis in a tab called "P&L and cash"
Tool 2 Option D
Transfer in contract buses- Monthly lease payments
Transfer in contract buses - Price
In very simple terms, I think we are short by some $660k per year for Capital, partially compensated by revenue coming from an advertising contract worth $250k a year and savings identified by Joe while doing the cash flow of around [$]50k a year.
Appreciated [sic] if we can chat in the morning to discuss
Thanks
Emilio
100 At 6:46pm on 21 August 2014 Mr Burton emailed Messrs Stewart, Schonberg and Pfirter as follows:
Dear All
Attached are:
• Our formal engagement letter, signed by client;
• Key Financial Assumptions (not signed by client). Relevant references to fleet are at 4.1 on page 10 and in the tender analysis on page 23. Note after a search of emails we have not located a signed copy.
For the avoidance of doubt, the item "Tender Analysis - Option dv2.0" included in [Mr Pfirter's] email is a document created by him today. "Tender Analysis - Option D" is the original document upon which the bid was based.
We'll move on to Ian's other thoughts now.
(Emphasis added.)
101 Mr Stewart did not include this email in his witness statement, an omission which, for reasons that become clear, must have been deliberate.
102 At 7:55pm on 21 August 2014 Mr Burton wrote an email to Mr Stewart, copied to Mr Schonberg and Mr Pfirter, which was a response to Mr Stuart's email sent at 4:38pm that day, as follows:
Hello Ian
1. I've had a look at the 3 way. It reconciles to the bid down to the EBITDA line only. Below that, the 3 way has the correct fleet outflows for all buses unlike the Bid which did not.
1(a) there had to be some good news: Bear in mind that the 3 way does not show a possible win if he transferred buses from his other operations instead of buying 14 new ones on 1/7/14. The opening average age leaves capacity for him to do this; it was only 8.69yrs. Further, the 3 way overstates the cash outflow for transfer in buses by 17k/month.
2. Yes, that sounds like Joe. In fact I can recall in 1 of the other regions (3?) that he said a target of $3.50 was appropriate.
3. Already distribute. No signed record in [Mr Pfirter's] emails or on file but we will try to access Lucas' emails through IT tomorrow in case it went only to him (he sent it to the client).
4. We do not know what Jo[e] [Calabro] actually did. The bid included 14 new buses at $414k marked as TBA. Knowing Jo[e], it is likely I think that he would have transferred some across from [region] 2 and made a further saving.
Regards
Mark
103 On 25 August 2014, Mr Pfirter wrote an email to Mr Stewart, copied to Mr Burton and Mr Schonberg attaching the 3 way model. The email continued as follows:
Also, below I calculated the impact of the error in the transferor in buses payments on a per kilometre basis (around $0.10):
Monthly ACTUAL payment to Westpac for Transfer-in vehicles: $222k
Payment calculated in the BID for Transfer in vehicles: $167k
Difference: $55K
Number of Kiometres (sic) in the Bid: 6,019,599
Impact per kilometre $0.10
Cheers
104 At 11:21am on 22 August 2014 Mr Pfirter wrote an email to Mr Stewart, copied to Mr Schonberg and Mr Burton, with the subject line "Region 15 - I think I found something good". The email continued:
Ian, Stephen
I think I found something positive that might help close the gap even a bit further.
If you remember the fleet was made up of:
• Transfer in buses
• 14 new buses (starting 01/07/2014)
• Replacement buses (coming at a later stage in the contract)
• Own buses.
For these last ones, we have included in Tool 2 (and therefore in the bid) notional amount of Finance for them (in order not to be 'free' to government), however, Joe had told me those buses were fully paid already…
105 Mr Burton, in an email that he sent immediately in response regarded the email about "closing the gap" as "excellent" news.
106 On 25 August 2014 Mr Pfirter sent an email to Mr Stewart and copied to Mr Schonberg telling them that he had over the weekend put together "a list of 'positive things' about region 15 which might 'open up any discussions with Joe [Calabro]'". The list was entitled "Positives related to Region 15" and provided as follows:
• 3 way model includes a healthy bottom line Net profit after tax
a. Year 1 4.3%
b. Year 2 5.6%
c. Year 3 6.0%
d. Year 4 6.3%
Contract profitability ramps up towards end of contract hence net profit should continue ramping up in the following years.
• Cash as per 3 way also ramps up well as follow:
a. FY End Year 1 $1.75m
b. FY End Year 2 $1.09m (decrease is mainly result of pmt Def Tax Liability on Dec 15 by $1.3m)
c. FY End Year 3 $1.74m
d. FY End Year 4 $2.31m
Contract profitability ramps up towards end of contract hence no cash issues should be expected in the following years.
• We have included in the bid $1.6m across all years of the contract regarding capital payments for buses which were fully financed at the start of the contract. This was a 'cost' in the bid but not actual cost for the operator.
• A healthy Depot Rent of $1.05m per year for the length of the contract was included in the bid. The construction of the new depot + land shouldn't cost Joe $9.5m to build ($1.5m x 9 years).
• Management Wages of $600k per annum for the length of the contract were incorporated into the bid. This is $300 per year for each Joe and his brother. This represents approximately $5.4m in total for the term of the contract.
• On top of the Contract price, the operator signed a contract for advertising for the length of the contract for an amount of $250k per year.
• The bid included extra $40 per year given a 'double up' of counting depreciation for other assets twice (under OH Costs first and then separately under depreciation again). Impact for the total length of the contract is $360k.
• We have incorporated in the model 14 brand new buses to be brought into the fleet on the 01/07/2014. If these buses were transferred from another of Joe's operations (Region 2 or Wagga Wagga) that unlocks more cash. Client advised likely they would instead use his own buses hence cash outflow overstated.
• For the existing transfer in buses (56 in total out of which 4 are self-funded) re-financing could be investigated to achieve better rate and terms.
• Four bid options were presented with different fleet structures and the lowest (cheapest) one was chosen given the operator was chasing a bottom line 'all in' price rather than anything else. The options (all in cost + cap + margin) were as following:
a. Option A 4.16 per km
b. Option B 4.13 per km
c. Option C 4.12 per km
d. Option D 4.06 per km
107 Mr Stewart had returned to Melbourne by Monday, 25 August 2014. By this stage he had become a consultant and was working from home. Around midday he sent an email to Messrs Pfirter, Schonberg and Burton, responding to Mr Pfirter's "I think I found something good" email as follows:
Good morning
I have now had a chance to look at this properly - impossible on an iPad.
My conclusion is that yes, there is a problem with the capital component of the bid but the cash flow analysis correctly identified the outgoing necessary so no-one was in any misunderstanding as to what the cash outcome of the bid was going to be. Given that we were chasing a price and crosschecking that to cash outcomes I doubt that any different bid price would have been submitted. In some respects having the funds outside capital is better because it is subject to indexation. Emilio's work below was also understood at the time from recollection.
The 3 ways shows the contract to be profitable and cash flow positive. What could have been done better at the time was understanding the difference in the cash inputs for transfer in buses versus the outputs. Looks obvious in hindsight but again I would say that I doubt the bid price would have changed much. The other hollow log here is depot rent. The rent in the bid and the 3 way is an internal charge.
Let me know if you want me to do anything more.
Ian
108 Before resuming the recitation of the chronology of the internal correspondence that ensued upon receipt of Mr Joseph's email, it is convenient to make two observations about Mr Stewart's email of 25 August 2014 in which he says that he has "now had a chance to look at this properly". First, Mr Stewart's assertion that the "cash flow analysis correctly identified the outgoing necessary" was, as he must then have known, false, because the impact of the error had been pointed out twice to him already (see, for example, paragraphs [99] and [103] above). Secondly, the references in the email to NBS "chasing a price" was a recurring refrain that continued to be used from that point onwards as a way of seeking to deflect responsibility, on the basis that, as Mr Stewart put it, he "doubt[ed] that any different bid price would have been submitted".
109 Mr Burton then responded to the other recipients of Mr Stewart's email and said: "I have spoken to Ian and he will call Joe today just to make sure Joe remembers the context of the price bid and to ensure that there is no ongoing issue".
110 During the course of the afternoon Mr Stewart had a telephone compensation with Mr Joe Calabro. Having done so he emailed Mr Schonberg, Mr Burton and Mr Pfirter in these terms:
I have spoken to Joe. He started the conversation not a happy man but has mellowed as it went on. He wants to see the detail of what I am saying so I will send him the models and we will talk through them probably tomorrow.
111 Later that same afternoon (on 25 August 2014) Mr Stewart sent an email to Mr Pfirter, which attached Mr Pfirter's email sent on 21 August 2014 at 6:24pm (see paragraph [99] above), asking Mr Pfirter: "[w]hen we did the scenarios for Joe when he was pricing the bid, what did you use to forecast cash outcomes?"
112 About 20 minutes later, Mr Pfirter responded as follows:
Ian
I'm afraid scenarios were based on EBIT numbers rather than cash flow.
Also, the tab called 'PL & Cash Flow' in the 'Tender Analysis - Option D' was not complete. That's strange because we usually check that with you and the client on the final meeting but in this case, don't know why it was not done.
Said that, I did it last Friday in the document called 'Tender Analysis - Option Dv.2.0' with actual outflows to Westpac and the replacement fleet (including the $1.6m for the fully paid own fleet) and still shows very positive Cash.
….
If I'm not clear fell [sic] free to call me Ian, I'm on my desk now.
113 Not long thereafter, at 5:32pm on 25 August 2014, Mr Stewart wrote an email to Mr Joe Calabro, attaching electronic versions of 3 documents, a "Comparison Option A to D.XLSX", a "Tender Analysis - Option Dv.2.0.xlsx", and a "NBS - PP Std Bus 3 Way Model 1.02.xlsm". For reasons that I will explain, a fundamental premise of the email was dishonest, something that Mr Stewart was compelled, albeit reluctantly, to accept in the course of his cross-examination. The email was in these terms:
Hi Joe
As discussed today here are the models of the [region 15] bid and the subsequent 3 way that was done for the bank.
The first model to look at is the Comparison Option A to D. You will recall that in deciding which option to go with, we targeted a level of savings to Government. Total bus capital in that model was just under $3m in total.
If you open the bid model (Tender Analysis - Option D) and go to the bid pricing tab you will see that the capital amount for transfer in buses is $2,007,172 which was based on a 15 year funding life as per the statement of assumptions. If you then go to the P&L and CF tab you will see that [Mr Pfirter] has inserted the cash outgoing for those vehicles at $2,666,583. My recollection of our meetings was that we went back and forth between estimated return, cash and savings to Government outputs in order to set the price. With the higher level of commitment, this still generated positive cash flow of $500k in the first year increasing to $900k plus once stamp duty had been paid and a higher margin on operating costs kicked in. This was after expensing $1m in depot rent and $600k in management wages shown in the Comparison model as return. In other words, while the bid amount includes a lesser amount of bus capital based on a 15 year funding, the actual cash forecast to come out of the contract looks reasonable because we flexed margin and operating costs to get to the target price.
In the 3way (sic), there is an allowance for $3.5m of debt servicing in total per annum which I think reflects the higher commitment. Cash flow was shown to be tight but that had a lot to do with tax payments arising on the sale of the Region 2 fleet - we estimated $1.3 million.
Have a look at it and give me a call … when you are ready.
Ian
114 Mr Joe Barbaro replied by email a little over an hour later, saying that he would "look at it over next (sic) couple of days, and compare with Region 2 submission, to see which costs we loaded as per your discussion."
115 Senior counsel for NBS submitted that I should conclude that it was the "purest dishonesty" for Mr Stewart to represent to Mr Joe Calabro and NBS, as he did, that the document entitled "Tender Analysis - Option Dv.2.0.xlsx" had been prepared at the time, and for the purposes of, the tender bid, and that the bid pricing tab contained a capital amount for transfer in buses of $2,007,172 based on a 15 year funding life. This could not have been a mere slip, because Mr Stewart had, just a matter of hours earlier, been told by Mr Burton that that document had in fact been prepared that day. Ultimately, Mr Stewart agreed that the email was dishonest. It is necessary to set out at some length Mr Dawson's cross-examination of Mr Stewart about the email. It is a lengthy extract because, as with a lot of Mr Stewart's evidence about critical matters, he was reluctant to answer questions directly and to concede the obvious:
Well, the message you were conveying to him was there's no legitimate complaint that [NBS] could raise as a result of the $660,000 shortfall; correct?
Yes.
Right. And you were demonstrating that to him, in part, by sending him the documents from the time?
Yes.
Now, you then explain the documents. The first model to look at is the Comparison Option A to D?
Yes. Continuing: You will recall that in deciding which option to go with, we targeted a level of savings to government. Total bus capital in that model was just under 3 million in total.
You're saying to him there, aren't you, consistently with what you had said on the phone to him, "We were targeting savings to government, which explains why the number wouldn't have changed, even if the numbers in the cashflow were more - were closer to the numbers in the bid"?
That's correct.
Right. And you then go on to say in the next paragraph: If you open the bid model - and this is the Tender Analysis Option D document? Yes.
Continuing: …and go to the Bid Pricing tab, you will see that the capital amount for transferring busses is just over $2 million, which was based on a 15-year funding life as per the statement of assumptions. Do you see that?
Yes.
Now, by that stage, you knew, didn't you, that the wrong number had been put into Tool 2?
Yes.
You didn't tell him that, did you?
I thought he understood that.
You didn't tell him that, did you?
No.
In fact, what you're saying is we priced the revenue for the transfer-in buses in accordance with the assumptions we gave you?
Yes.
You agreed with me yesterday that that assumption in relation to fleet for the Region 15 contract, to the extent that it suggested that the VTP should be provided for over 15 years, was a wrong assumption?
That's correct.
And yet what you're telling Mr Calabro is there's nothing to see here because the way we treated revenue in respect of the transfer-in buses in the bid was entirely consistent with the assumptions we gave you at the time?
Yes.
That was terribly misleading, wasn't it, Mr Stewart?
Yes.
Yes. You then said - if you then go to the P&L and CF tab, you will see that Emilio has inserted the cash outgoing for those vehicles at 2.66 million?
Yes.
That was grossly dishonest of you to say that, wasn't it?
I don't understand why.
Really, Mr Stewart? Would you like a moment. Take all the time you need?
I'm sorry, I don't see it.
Is that an honest answer?
Yes, it is.
That was the very calculation that had not been completed in 2013, wasn't it?
That's correct.
And yet you are telling Mr Calabro what you knew to be untrue which is that Emilio had completed that tab?
I disagree that he - in my email I use the language "has inserted", and what that meant was that it was done subsequently.
Where do you say that, Mr Stewart?
I don't say that, but that was my intent.
You attached to this document version 2 of the tender analysis option D, didn't you?
Yes.
Yes. And you can see that if you turn the page - for the benefit of his Honour and our learned friends - the second last line on that page confirms the attachment as being option D version 2?
Yes.
And you knew when you sent this email to Mr Calabro, didn't you, Mr Stewart, that that was the updated document prepared in August 2014?
Yes, I did.
And you didn't send Mr Calabro the original of the tender analysis option D document, did you?
No.
And what you were representing to him was that Mr Pfirter had done the document and completed it at the time, that is, in May 2013?
No, I deny that.
Come on, Mr Stewart, you know, don't you, that this email was grossly dishonest?
I disagree.
Are you seriously saying that that sentence conveys to a person reading it that Mr Pfirter has only just updated it now?
That was my intention in the use of those words, yes.
You go on to say: My recollection of our meetings was that we went back and forth between estimated return, cash and savings, to government outputs in order to set the price. With the high level of commitment, this still generated a positive cashflow of half a million in the first year, increasing to 900 once stamp duty had been paid and a higher margin on operating costs kicked in. This was after expensing depot rent and management wages shown in the comparison model as return. And then you say: In other words, while the bid amount includes a lesser amount of bus capital based on a 15-year funding, the actual cash forecast to come out of the contract looked reasonable because we flexed margin and operating costs to get to the target price. In that final sentence, you're suggesting a deliberate flexing of "margin and operating costs to get to the target price"; correct?
Yes.
You're suggesting that the bid including a lesser amount of capital was known at the time?
Yes.
And that was untrue, wasn't it?
No, sorry, I apologise. The reference to "lesser amount of bus capital" was - and the latter part of that where I say "while the bid amount did include a lesser amount of bus capital", I was pointing to the fact that the actual cash forecast and so on looked reasonable.
And what you're referring to there is the actual cash forecast that you had drawn Mr Calabro's attention to in the second sentence. If you then go to the P&L and cashflow tab, you will see that Emilio has inserted the cash outgoing for those vehicles at 2.6 million?
Yes. That's inconsistent, I agree.
No, Mr Stewart, it's entirely consistent, isn't it? Those two sentences relate to each other, don't they?
No, that was not my intention in describing the work.
What you're saying to Mr Calabro is, go back, Joe. Go back and look at the documents from the time. You will see that, yes, the capital funding in the bid was $2 million. That was based on an assumption we gave you which you knew about ?
Yes.
… and the cashflow forecast we did at the time, in the P&L and CF tab, actually included the actual amount of the buses which was higher?
Yes.
And you're saying to him, so everyone knew this is what we were doing, this is how we did the numbers deliberately at the time; correct?
In knowledge, yes.
Pardon?
In knowledge of information, is what I'm saying. Yes.
Yes. And that was untrue, wasn't it?
So far as the cash reference is concerned, yes, I agree.
And you were trying to mislead Mr Calabro by giving him the updated document without telling him that it wasn't a document that was in existence at the time, weren't you?
No, that was not my intent.
Mr Stewart, please, what explanation do you have for sending Mr Calabro the version 2 of option D in the tender analysis without sending him the original version and without drawing to his attention that that was a document that had been completed just days before by Mr Pfirter?
My recollection of the cash side of things was poor.
Was what?
Poor.
You mean dishonest?
No, it was poor at the time.
You gave evidence yesterday, Mr Stewart, at page 355 of the transcript, line 29, that you admitted to Mr Calabro that there was an error in the calculations?
I think I was referencing the meeting that we had.
Well, you don't admit it here, do you?
No.
In fact, you do the opposite, don't you?
Agree.
Right. I'm going to give you another chance, Mr Stewart, to come clean with respect to you. You, by including Mr Pfirter's updated document in the email to Mr Calabro, behind tab 23, were attempting to mislead him about the work that had been done at the time?
I would not describe it as misleading; I was trying to give him assurance that it was still okay.
But it was false assurance, wasn't it?
It would appear so, yes.
And you knew that at the time, didn't you?
No.
Mr Stewart, you had been told by Mr Pfirter, one hour and 30 minutes before you sent this email to Mr Calabro, in the email behind tab 22, that the option D version 2 document was something that Mr Pfirter had prepared last Friday - that is, on 22 August 2014 - with the actual cashflows on the back of him telling you that it hadn't been done at the time. You were told that an hour and a half before you sent your email to Mr Calabro; correct?
It would appear so, yes.
Well, it would appear so. You were, weren't you?
Yes.
And that was in response to a direct inquiry from you?
Yes.
And, indeed, you had known from Mr Pfirter's email to you behind tab 7 that the option D version 2 document was a new document, as you agreed earlier; correct?
Yes.
You also had that specifically clarified if it needed it by Mr Burton in the email [sent at 6:46pm on 21 August 2014 above] where he says for the avoidance of doubt, the version 2 document is a document created by him today?
Yes.
You said to me earlier that you agreed that that reflected your understanding of the document at the time?
Yes.
And that is the document you end up sending to Mr Calabro to give him assurances, you describe it, that everything was okay?
Yes.
You accept, don't you, that you were deliberately misleading Mr Calabro about the extent of the work that had been done in May 2013?
Not deliberately.
You accept you misled him?
Yes.
You accept you misled him grossly?
I accept that he has been misled, yes.
As a direct result of your email and its contents and the documents attached to it?
Yes.
And you don't say to him, do you, in that email, "We didn't do the work at the time, Joe, as the original version of the document shows. Remember, I raised that with you and you instructed me not to do that work, but we've updated the document to show what we would have done at the time if you hadn't given me those instructions to change our retainer and it shows the difference"?
I didn't say that, no.
No, nothing like it, did you?
No.
And isn't that exactly what you would have said to him if you had really had that conversation with him about not conducting the quality assurance review?
I don't agree because it was not something that was in my mind at the time.
Now, Mr Stewart… you will see that the email you get back from Mr Calabro at 6.41 that evening [see [114] above] - namely, an hour and nine minutes or so later - Mr Calabro thanks you for the information and the documents and says he will have a look at it over the next couple of days and compare it with the region 2 submission to see which costs will be loaded as per your discussion. You see that?
Yes, I do.
….
And Mr Calabro records, doesn't he, a conversation between you and him in which you said, "Don't you remember, Joe, we loaded up a whole lot of costs in the region 15 contract. There's fat in there."?
Yes.
And Mr Calabro is saying to you, "Well, if that's what you say, Ian, I will go and have a look at it." Correct?
Yes, he is.
And you weren't surprised, were you, that he trusted what you had said to him about that?
No.
And, indeed, you wanted him to accept what you were telling him about region 15, didn't you?
Yes.
And you wanted him to accept that there was no problem notwithstanding that you knew about the error; correct?
Correct.
You wanted the problem to go away, didn't you?
Yes.
And you didn't want it to be an issue for the firm, did you?
No.
And you didn't want it to be an issue for you personally, did you?
No.
And what you wanted to do was to make the client accept that there was no reason for them to complain; correct?
Yes.
But you knew at this time, didn't you, that there was a very good reason for them to complain?
Not that they were unaware of the issue.
I beg your pardon?
What I'm trying to say is that this was something which, again, I felt there was no consequence of.
But when you say no - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off?
As we have discussed, I felt, yes, there is an error, but at the time I believe that there was not a consequence, a significant consequence of it.
By that you mean, don't you, that savings had been made elsewhere?
That's right.
But you accept, don't you, that absent the error those savings would have represented more profit to [NBS] in operating the region 15 contract?
Had they won the contract, yes.
Well, they had by now. They were running it, weren't they?
They had won it, yes.
And they were running the contract. They were running the routes, weren't they?
Yes.
(Emphasis added.)
116 Later in the day, Mr Dawson returned to the topic of the email, cross-examining Mr Stewart as follows:
And that was the document you sent to Mr Calabro at 5.32 on Monday, 25 August. That is, the email behind tab 23?
Yes.
And with the benefit of the lunch hour, Mr Stewart, you, I take it, have thought about that email, haven't you?
Yes.
And you've reflected on it, haven't you?
Yes.
And you accept, don't you, that you were attempting to mislead Mr Calabro about the work that had been done in May 2013?
I think that that email was poorly drafted and is misleading, yes.
But it was - being totally honest about it now, Mr Stewart, it was deliberate, wasn't it?
No. I don't think I had any deliberate intent in doing that. As you say, I have reflected on it, and I can see that it is misleading. Yes, I agree with that.
But what I'm suggesting to you is that you were trying to get Mr Calabro to believe that all the numbers have been properly put together at the time to make the problem go away. That's what you were doing, isn't it?
Yes, I was attempting to explain our position. Yes, that's right.
HIS HONOUR: I'm not sure that really is responsive, Mr Stewart.
MR DAWSON: No? I'm sorry. Mr Stewart, let me be plain with you. I'm really giving you the opportunity, having had the lunch hour to reflect on this, to admit what I'm putting to you, which is that when you go back to that email and look at it now, and having had the opportunity to reflect, you accept, don't you, that regrettable though it may be, you were trying to mislead Mr Calabro?
I'm not sure about the deliberate intent to do so. I acknowledge that there are elements of that that was - that are misleading. That absolutely is the case. I don't believe that I was deliberate in my attempt to mislead him. Yes, at the time I wrote it, I don't think that was in my mind.
You were certainly deliberately not telling him the whole story. You would agree with that, wouldn't you?
Yes.
Yes. And doesn't that mean that you were deliberately trying to mislead him, at least in some way?
In part, yes, I agree with that.
And, Mr Stewart, is this a fair summary of what has happened here: that in February/March of 2014 you discovered the error with the bid?
I deny that.
And you had two choices. One was to put the numbers together in a way that didn't reveal the error and to keep it from Mr Calabro and his brother. The other was to be upfront about it then and there and try to deal with it as best you could?
Absolutely.
And you chose the first option instead of the second - that is, not to disclose it and to hope that it was never uncovered, instead of choosing to disclose it and trying to do something about it. And when Mr Joseph discovered it in August of 2014 you felt trapped and couldn't tell the truth because you knew it would reveal that you must have found the error earlier than August 2014. And as a result, you've had to lie ever since to cover up the reality that you found the error in February/March of 2014. Is that really what's happening here?
No, it is not. I deny that.
(Emphasis added.)
117 On 25 August 2014 at 6:27pm Mr Joseph wrote an email to Mr Joe Calabro as follows:
Hi Joe
I managed to do some work based on some of the Pitcher stuff you had sent me yesterday. Please have a look and we can discuss.
On first glance at this I cannot justify what Ian is saying - provided the data I have used is right.
…
Regards
Nishan
118 Mr Stewart met with Mr Joe Calabro on 27 August 2014. He made some notes before the meeting, which were, in essence, talking points of things that Mr Stewart intended to say and did say to Mr Calabro at that meeting. He then also made some notes of what occurred at the meeting. The pre-meeting notes were as follows:
Region 15 thoughts
Known each other a very long time
What can we do to help?
Yes it looks like an error but does it have a consequence?
Reality is the total contract price wouldn't have differed much
Possibly better off because elements are subject to indexation
Cash outflow was known at the time - no-one queried the difference
Contract should stand in its own $1.4m margin or $4.5m EBITDA
What else has not gone to expectation?
119 The notes that Mr Stewart made recording a summary of discussions at the meeting were as follows:
Emilio has spilled his guts
Reality is they still have a profitable contract - not as profitable as they would like
Nishan no help - adding fuel to the fire
Legal action not mentioned at all
Joe going to talk to his brother
Indicated further cost cuts possible
Spend on depot about $10m total
Denies chasing a price
Denies awareness of outgoing - not an accountant - convenient
Tried hard to keep displeasure but left on amicable terms, dropped off at the airport
120 Counsel for NBS cross-examined Mr Stewart on these notes as follows:
No. Now, after the meeting you made some notes on your phone on your way back to Melbourne. Is that right?
Yes.
And you record, first of all, that "Emilio has spilled his guts"?
Yes.
That's a criticism of Mr Pfirter, isn't it, for being what you thought was too open with [NBS]?
Yes.
Too open?
Not - not open. I think the reference was more to the fact that he had accepted full responsibility for the error, whereas at that time I did not know how it had happened and whether it had a consequence.
But you did know how it had happened, Mr Stewart, because you had instructed Mr Pfirter the day before to redo Tool 2?
No, I - I think the - the way it actually happened was - it only really became an awareness of mine about a year ago, as we discussed yesterday, in that the true error I believe was through incorrectly inputting into the purchase cost column values that were not appropriate for that purpose. And I think that is the actual error and how it happened. At this point in time, I did not know how it happened and nor - well, I don't know whether - I can't speak for Emilio.
…
You knew very well what the financial impact of that error was. Correct?
Yes.
And you knew that it was a Tool 2 problem. Correct?
Yes.
And whatever the precise nature - even if one accepts what you say about not knowing exactly how it had happened or what had happened - you knew, didn't you, that it was a data entry issue at the hands of someone at Pitcher Partners?
I agree with it up until the last few words because I - I agree that it's a data entry error, but at that point in time I didn't know whose error it was, who made the error. I -
But you knew it somebody at Pitcher Partners, didn't you?
No, I did not at that time. Who did you think it might be? Mr Calabro?
Well, as our practice was to provide Tool 2 to the client to actually complete their data entry, there was that possibility, yes.
But if Mr Pfirter was taking responsibility for it, Mr Stewart, that would have been enough, wouldn't it, to tell you that he had entered the data?
It didn't tell me that at the time.
Did you ask him?
No.
And that's because you knew that it was him who had entered the data from your discussions with him in February/March 2014. Correct?
No, we didn't have conversations about this particular issue as I had left the firm.
Should his Honour take your explanation at 229 of your affidavit as to why you recorded, "Emilio has spilled his guts" as inaccurate, Mr Stewart, because, again, you are saying that you did not think that the error, if made, was an error of consequence?
I think I would reword that to say "if made by us" if I could make -
Well, you've just introduced an entirely new concept into your evidence, haven't you? The possibility that someone from [NBS] populated Tool 2 with the wrong numbers, such that the responsibility for the error could be laid at [NBS]'s door more than at Pitcher Partners door?
Or shared.
It's entirely new as a theory of how the error occurred, isn't it, Mr Stewart?
When you say it's new -
Well, where is it in your affidavit? Where do you say in your affidavit there's a 30 possibility that - and I was also conscious of this, that [NBS] populated the tool?
I make reference in my affidavit to a model that was sourced from [NBS] which had the fleet details in it, however, I made no allegation in relation to it.
No, you didn't, did you, because you know it's not true, don't you?
At the time. I have since understood that the data was entered directly from that spreadsheet that had its source from [NBS] into Tool 2 by Pitcher Partners staff that I had become aware of more recently.
Right. And you became aware of that at the time that you did your affidavit. Correct?
Yes.
Right. So that is why you don't suggest in your affidavit that [NBS] entered the data into Tool 2. Correct?
Sorry. I withdraw that earlier affirmative comment. That is information that came to me after I had signed my affidavit. I apologise, your Honour.
…
Well, leaving that matter to one side, Mr Stewart, the reference, "Emilio has spilled his guts" is a pretty nasty way of describing Emilio and his interactions with a client, isn't it?
I regret the use of those words, yes.
But you agree with my characterisation, don't you?
Yes, I do.
Emilio, by doing that, was making it very hard for you to put the fire out, as it were?
Yes.
The next line is "The reality is that they still have a profitable contract, not as profitable as they would like." That recorded, didn't it, what you had told them? Namely, "Look, you're still making a profit, just not as much as you wanted to." Correct?
Yes.
You then say: "Nishan no help. Adding fuel to the fire."
Yes.
That again is a pretty unfair way, isn't it, to describe Mr Joseph doing his job as general manager, trying to work out why the company had a cashflow problem?
I was not intending to be disparaging of him.
Well, you're criticising him there, aren't you, saying, "Well, he's not helping resolve the situation." Correct?
Yes.
And what you meant by that he wasn't buying what you were telling him. Correct?
He was not prepared to countenance broader issues other than the simple error, yes.
What you mean by that is he didn't see you saying to him, "Look, you've got profit and you can make savings elsewhere and, in fact, you've had a windfall in the advertising contract. Stop complaining about the overall impact on this contract because you're still doing pretty well." You're complaining that he wasn't accepting that line. Correct?
Yes.
And you were frustrated by the fact that he was saying, "But what has that got to do with it? We're still $660,000 short of where we thought we would be"?
Yes.
121 On 26 August 2014 Mr Stewart wrote to Mr Pfirter as follows:
Can you please re do the fleet module for [region] 15 and work out the correct capital funding figure for the transfer in buses. That is, the funding life should be a maximum of 15 years.
Can I have that ASAP please?
Ian
122 On 26 August 2014 Mr Pfirter wrote an email to Mr Stewart as follows:
Hi Ian
I hope this is what we need.
I saved this document as "Tool 2 - Option Dv2.0" in order not to modify the original.
Existing Fleet Tab:
Previously calculation for transfer in buses was done with one hundred and eighty months in rows AT to BA (4th alternative funding NVTP). This NVTP columns (sic) were intended to be for new vehicles or existing vehicles but never transfer in.
Now the transfer in are in column AK to AS (3rd alternative of funding-PMT market value) and all relevant columns have been highlighted in orange. You'll see that I populated the following:
• Market value = Transfer in price
• Residual = 0% (This might not be the actual arrangement with Westpac)
• Period = This was always the issue. Now rather than 180 months I took the remaining life (180 minus whatever term is already behind)
• Interest Rate: is the one defined for the purpose of this model 6.75% (this might differ from the one arranged with Westpac)
Fleet Summary Tab:
You can see here column O now with the 'remaining'. Rather than the full 180 months and the monthly payment in column S (total of $219k for the transfer in vehicles). Any difference with the actual payment to Westpac might being (sic) cause by different interest rates or balloon payment etc but surely NOT because a different (sic) in the remaining term of the finance.
Table 1C
Moving now to table 1C (Transfer in Buses) you will see highlighted column G for a total payment of $2.6m a year rather than $2m.
Comparison for payments (sic) 9 years of the contract:
Total Payment Tool 2 Option D-Original $17.7m
Total Payment Tool 2 Option D-V .2 .0 $23.1m
Total as per Westpac $22.7m
I hope this helps, otherwise just let me know or call me.
Cheers.
(Emphasis added.)
123 Mr Stewart replied to Mr Pfirter's email within a matter of minutes as follows:
Ok thanks. I was hoping that it might have produced a lower number but it seems that busways did a good job of matching revenue and outgoings.
124 I will return later in these reasons to the question of what Mr Stewart knew, and when he knew it, but it is useful here to record what counsel for NBS submitted in closing submissions (and which for reasons I later explain I accept) was the significance of Mr Pfirter's email:
Now, your Honour, that's the end of it. Mr Stewart, his head out of February, March 2014 time period, he's dealing with August 2014 and he has let his guard down or perhaps just given up, I don't know. But what he does is to admit not just in one question but in two that that's what they were talking about in February, March. Which means they discussed version 4 and version 5. Mr Stewart realised that 180 months was being used instead of nine years and that was creating an issue with the cash flow and that, on his evidence, if he had done that, he would have understood that there was a cash flow and a revenue problem and the error would have been leaping off the page.
So there just - it is an extraordinary set of evidence, your Honour, because it leaves it really in no doubt that Mr Stewart, out of his own mouth, was across these documents in February, March. That's why he had the conversation. That's why he has this exchange with Mr Stewart about, "This was always the issue" - with Mr Pfirter, I should say, "This was always the issue." He had been - he was - he went through it all and he understood exactly what the problem was. Mr Pfirter didn't see the significance but Mr Stewart did. And there can't be any doubt about the fact that he did because that's why I was so careful to get out of him in cross-examination, "If you had had the conversations I'm putting to you, Mr Stewart, you would have seen the error, wouldn't you?"
125 The same email provides another useful explanation of the amortisation error. In it, Mr Pfirter steps Mr Stewart through the relevant tabs of the two electronic "tool" documents. The first sum of $17.7m is the amount of money that Tool 2 calculated in March 2014 as being the amount of money available from the government to finance the transfer-in buses. The figure of $23.1m revealed in Tool 2 Option D-V2 .0, which, as I have explained above, was prepared in the preceding days by Mr Pfirter, is the funding in fact available from the government. The "Total as per Westpac" of $22.7m is the actual cost to NBS of the finance it obtained from Westpac. In other words, Mr Pfirter confirmed with Mr Stewart that there was a discrepancy in excess of $600,000 per year.
126 It was put to Mr Stewart in cross-examination, and I accept, that when Mr Pfirter said to Mr Stewart in that email "Period = This was always the issue. Now rather than 180 months I took the remaining life (180 minus whatever term is already behind)" Mr Pfirter could only have been referring to previous discussions that he had had with Mr Stewart about the amortisation error and that he was referring in particular to conversations that he had had with Mr Stewart at the time that versions 4 and 5 of the modelling had been carried out in late February/early March 2014.
127 Mr Dawson cross-examined Mr Stewart about this email as follows:
…The reference: "I saved this document as Tool 2, option D, version 2 in order not to modify the original"
is Mr Pfirter taking the same approach to the Tool 2 document as he had to the tender analysis document, that is, he's creating a new version now and calling it version 2?
Yes.
And then he tells you various things about the tabs in the Excel spreadsheet - that is, the Tool 2 Excel spreadsheet - tabs with which we're now familiar having looked at them on the screen several times in these proceedings; namely, Existing Fleet tab; correct?
Yes.
And, over the page, Fleet Summary tab; correct?
Yes.
And then table 1(c). You see that?
Yes.
And then he has done a comparison at the end of the email for payments over nine years of the contract and he says that under the original version of Tool 2 the payments totalled 17.7 million?
Yes.
That is the money being sought from the government by way of revenue, yes?
Yes.
And then the total payment, Tool 2, option D, version 2 - ie, the tool populated correctly - showed that what should have been claimed from government was 23.1 million. You see that?
Yes.
And then he says: "Total as per Westpac, 22.7 million." You see that?
Yes.
In other words, that's the actual cost of the finance over the contract?
That's right.
And what he's doing is demonstrating what was done and what should have been done in revenue claimed from the government and presenting the Westpac figure so that each of those figures could be contrasted to the actual finance costs of the 52 transfer-in buses from Busways?
Yes.
And you can see that if it had been done correctly at the time, there would have been, as you anticipated there should be, a discrepancy between the revenue from the government in respect of those buses and the actual costs of financing those buses?
Correct.
And the revenue in figure is higher than the actual cost of those buses over the life of the contract. Can you see that?
Yes.
And that accords with the evidence you gave when I was asking you some questions about it at the outset of your cross-examination, namely, that because the revenue in figure includes both the vehicle transfer payment, as well as the net present value of future lease payments, one would expect it to be slightly higher than the actual leasing costs which is only a portion of the vehicle termination payment?
Yes.
That's correct, isn't it?
Yes.
So going through the email, Mr Pfirter says to you under Existing Fleet tab "Previously, calculation for transfer-in buses was done with 180 months in rows AT to BA, fourth alternative funding NVTP."NVTP stands for what?
New vehicle termination payment.
Thank you. And he says: "This column - or these columns - were intended to be for new vehicles or existing vehicles, but never transfer-in." That's a pretty clear statement of the error in Tool 2 as it was populated in May 2013, isn't it?
Yes, it is his view, yes.
Pardon?
It is his view, yes.
Well, when you say, "It is his view," he's acknowledging in this email, isn't he, that the previous calculation was done for transfer-in buses but treating them as new buses?
Yes.
In other words, using the VTP not the original purchase price in Tool 2?
Yes. Well, that's where I do have a difference of view.
HIS HONOUR: The question was, "Is it a clear statement"?
It is a clear statement, yes.
MR DAWSON: Right. And you say you have a different view?
Yes.
Would you like to explain that?
My view is that the model was built in such a way that you could use it for transferring vehicles if you knew or had a proxy for the original purchase cost.
Sorry? You could use the VTP as a proxy for the original purchase cost?
You could use the model - because what Emilio is saying here is that this NVTP columns were intended to be for new vehicles or existing vehicles, but never transfer-in.
That is what I am taking issue with. I don't agree with - with that comment.
Are you saying that you can manipulate Tool 2 so that it can deal with using the VTP and still produce the correct number?
Well, you only need to - you don't need to manipulate it. You only need to enter into the purchase cost column either the - the actual purchase cost of the bus or a proxy for it, and the - and the model works perfectly well.
But are you talking about what you did when you redid Tool 2 for the purpose of your affidavit where you used 420,000 for each bus?
That's correct.
Right. In other words, you and Mr Pfirter aren't really disagreeing here, are you? He's saying that the Tool 2 spreadsheet depended upon putting in the original purchase cost of the bus?
I don't think he's - that's what he's saying. I think - I think what he is saying in that second sentence is these columns were intended to be for new vehicles or existing vehicles, but never transfer-in.
I see. And what you are- ?
That's what I'm taking issue with.
What you're saying is you can use Tool 2 for new vehicles, existing vehicles and transfer-in vehicles because the tool has the flexibility to calculate the correct funding figure for each of those categories of bus?
That is correct.
And you say that because if you put in the original purchase price, the tool is also populated with how old the bus is, for example?
Yes.
… and that will ensure that the tool produces the number that the operator is entitled to get from the government over the life of a contract because the tool will calculate, by reference to the original purchase price of the contract, what revenue over 15 years is available from government?
That's correct.
Right. Now, he then says: "Now, the transfer-in are column AK to AS, a third alternative of funding payment, market value, and all relevant columns have been highlighted in orange. You will see that I have populated the following." So he's taking you through, isn't he, the existing fleet tab and what changes he has made?
Yes.
And you understood that when you were reading this at the time?
Yes.
He says market value he has put in as the transfer-in price?
Yes.
And residual, zero. This might not be the actual arrangement with Westpac, he notes?
Yes.
In other words, the leases might have a residual of 10 or 20 per cent or something, not zero. Correct?
Yes.
And then he says "period". That's a reference to the period of 180 months that was in Tool 2. Correct?
Yes.
And he says: "This was always the issue."?
Yes.
See that?
Yes.
And you understood that what Mr Pfirter was saying to you was, "Remember this was the problem we identified in February and March of 2014"?
Yes.
And what he's saying is, "Remember that's what prompted the change between version 4 and version 5 when we adjusted the 180 months in the 3-way cashflow back to nine years"?
Yes.
And he says: "Now, rather than 180 months, I took the remaining life, 180 minus whatever term is already behind." See that?
Yes.
And at the time you read that, what you understood Mr Pfirter had done was to manipulate Tool 2 in the way that I was discussing with you yesterday, that is, instead of changing the purchase cost column to the original purchase price, you leave the VTP in there, but you adjust the period?
Yes.
That is, adjust it to the period of the contract?
Yes.
And he notes that it's 180 months minus whatever term is already behind and that's how you achieve the remaining life of that bus using the VTP?
Yes.
And that ensures that if the bus is not going to reach 15 years by the end of the contract, you've nonetheless got the full funding from the government in the nine years that you're operating it. Correct?
Yes, that's right.
And it would also ensure that if the bus does reach 15 years by the end of - in the time that you're running a contract, you've got the remaining money available from the government in respect of that bus for the remainder of its 15-year life?
So I - I think we're in agreement, yes.
Yes. I may have put that clumsily. What I'm saying is if you adjust the term as Mr Pfirter is doing there and the bus reaches 15 years, in the nine years that [NBS] is operating the contract - let's say the bus is 10 years old and there are five years left - adjusting Tool 2 in this way ensures that you get the full amount of funding that is available over those five years from the government?
Yes, that's right.
128 On 26 August 2014 Mr Stewart emailed Mr Schonberg, Mr Burton and Mr Pfirter informing them that he was going to meet Mr Joe Calabro and Mr Joseph the next afternoon in Sydney and that he would let them know "how we go". Mr Schonberg wished Mr Stewart "good luck" in his reply of the same day.
129 Mr Joseph prepared a file note of that meeting. It reads as follows:
• Ian was well aware of the matter to be discussed, and did mention that Emilo Pfirter had contacted him in this regard
• The matter was recapped by Joe and Nishan
• It was mentioned that while previously on the phone Ian had said that the under-costing on fleet was made up by adding the difference on to some other costs, this was not the case (we checked and found no such padding in the other expense categories), which he did not concur with or emphasise again.
• He did immediately mention that the objective at the time had been to go low on the Region 15 tender bid,
• To which Joe said, "yes, while that is the case, we did not intend to go below cost on any item; neither was it brought to our attention that that would be the case"
• Also Joe mentioned "why would we go so hard on region 15 and not do the same on region 2, which is the region we really wanted …"
• Ian also did mention that he should have drilled in further on the funding model and the capital payments,
• But that he was rushed for time, given that there was only roughly 2 weeks to do the region 15 tender, and he couldn't go into too much detail
• Joe voiced his concern that he would not have agreed to a margins such as what we are looking at now, with such a drop in the capital return on the buses
• But Ian always kept going back to the subject that there was a positive cash flow in the model, with at least $1million per year over time,
• To which Joe countered that even $1 million return on a total investment of $25 million is very poor;
• And that they would not do business at such a low return, preferring may be to put the money in the bank to earn a similar margin at little risk
• To which Ian really had no answer to give, other than to reiterate that "well, there is cash flow …"
• Further he did not have a resolute and supporting out the full reasoning behind the actions to under-cost the fleet
• In the journey back to the car park, Ian mentioned that Emilio is very distraught on this matter
130 On 29 August 2014 Mr Pfirter sent Mr Stewart an email asking him how the meeting had gone with Mr Calabro and Mr Joseph. Mr Stewart replied: "Well it was never going to be good and it wasn't. Nothing to do from here".
131 On 3 September 2014 Mr Pfirter confirmed with Mr Stewart that the total fees invoiced by Pitcher Partners for the region 15 work were $41,793, net of GST.
132 On 10 September 2014 Mr Pfirter wrote to Mr Stewart as follows:
Hi Ian,
I don't know where we landed in terms of relationship with Joe [Calabro]. I haven't had any contact since the incident.
Is it ok for me to [forward] him the Tool 2 (Option D)? (I want to be sure I am not doing the wrong thing by doing so)
Cheers
Emilio
133 Mr Stewart responded the same day telling Mr Pfirter that he thought it was "best that you make no further contact without [Mr Schonberg's] approval - at least until things settle down. I know you mean well but there are times when communication needs to be controlled".
134 Mr Pfirter responded to Mr Stewart email, telling him that he "totally agree[d]", adding "[w]hat … Should I do though [?] I cannot not answer Nishan. You want (sic) I follow this up with Stephen then?"
135 On 21 October 2014 Mr Pfirter wrote to Mr Schonberg asking him whether NBS should be billed for the cost of Mr Stewart "travelling to Sydney to fix the problem caused by our mistake in these guys (sic) capital cost calculation". The email continued:
Ian asked me not to get in contact or communicate with them until the situation is less sensitive in order to avoid any possible further actions from them.
I imagine if we send an invoice for $4.7k they won't be happy plus, we have invoiced these guys in the vicinity of $200k … for the job we did last year for both of his regions.
Happy to ask Ian if he wants to invoice it but from my point of view it's quite sensitive client to do so and prefer to write it off.
What are your thoughts?
136 Mr Schonberg responded later the same day in these terms: "This is a no-brainer - no way will we charge them so please write off in full".