[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: ... but there's one other issue to be resolved before we start, and that is as to which party proceeds first. My friend is of the opinion that the applicant should go first and I was under the impression that the respondent would go first. I made the inquiry yesterday of the registry in that regard, just so that I could arrange for my witnesses, and I was told that the respondent goes first in these matters and then the applicant.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Absolutely not - I'm sorry. I wasn't ever contacted about the procedure. I'm not sure who in the registry might have given that advice. It would not be the normal procedure. This is what we call a merits review. Your client is the applicant.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: Yes.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The applicant presents his case first and then the respondent presents their witnesses, that's the normal procedure. I'm sorry you've been misled in some way. I'm not sure who gave you that advice.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: I mentioned the matter and this person - it was a female - went away, made some inquiries and came back and said exactly that, and that's why I've arranged my witnesses in that order.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Unfortunately, that is not the procedure. I have no idea who you would have spoken to who would have given you that advice. It's certainly not the advice you would have been given were they to have consulted me, or any other member in the general list.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: I did say to them, 'Are you sure about that' and of course they said 'yes'. So I've arranged for my four witnesses to attend tomorrow.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Who are your four witnesses?
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: [The applicant].
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That's the applicant.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: Yes, his two carers and a gentleman who is a barrister that knows him.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: With the barrister, does anyone want to cross-examine the barrister? We can interpose him later, it's no problem.
[RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL]: The suggestion I have - I understand my friend's embarrassment and the reasons for it - is that if the applicant were to be called this morning and I understand there is some possibility that one of the carers could get here today, I would be content then to call some of the medical witnesses, interpose them, although - - -
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Why don't we do that, so that will overcome any difficulties about when your witnesses are available.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: Thank you for that.
[26] I add (for the purpose of aiding understanding) that at this point counsel for Austin Health referred to some matters concerning the medical evidence, the principal witnesses as to which were Dr Anton and Dr Hopwood. Counsel for Austin Health having noted that Dr Anton referred in her witness statement to reports of an occupational therapist, Ms Starritt, and a forensic psychiatrist, Dr Patel, and understanding that the plaintiff's counsel objected to their giving evidence, counsel for the plaintiff responded, and the following discussion occurred, as appears at pp 4 to 6 of the transcript:
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: That's actually not right. I don't object to either of those doctors giving evidence. I object to part of the content of their reports only. I'm happy for them to be called.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right.
[RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL]: What I was going to suggest is as both of their reports deal with assessments that took place in 2007, it would be convenient, so far as the disposition of the matter overall is concerned, if we called them today, because nothing that has happened since the witness statements have been prepared, and in particular none of the outcome of the applicant himself giving evidence could affect any of their evidence. So my suggestion would be that I would arrange to interpose Dr Patel - - -
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Are you happy then with that, that they get interposed before perhaps your client has finished giving his evidence and his witnesses are heard by the tribunal?
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: I think perhaps [the applicant] should finish his evidence first, but I'm certainly happy for them to be called after that.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The difficulty I have got is I must leave at 4.00, so there might be a - - -
[RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL]: Perhaps if we can just see how we go.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: See how we go.
[RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL]: If we could finish [the applicant] and I could call each of them this afternoon, subject to the time constraints.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And then maybe leave your three till tomorrow.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: In relation to them, Deputy President, they're just simply his two carers that take him out on day - - -
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: So they won't take long.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: I don't see it being very lengthy cross-examination, subject to what my friend will say to you, and the barrister certainly is a person that is giving almost character evidence, he is not giving expert evidence. He's known him for seven or eight years and he will give that evidence. I don't see those witnesses being of extensive compass.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Well, why don't we at this point say - we'll say okay, we'll work on the assumption that we'll hear from them tomorrow.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: Yes.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And you needn't then worry about getting them here today.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: Thank you. That would assist me.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: And we'll start with [the applicant], see how we go with that and then you can call these two, Ms Starritt and Dr Patel, is it?
[RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL]: Yes.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You could get them sort of ready to come and start today.
[RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL]: Yes, thank you.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: Thank you for that.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is there any point - we can't really - just having a quick look at all the material, if I look at the various criteria under the Mental Health Act, is there anything that's agreed upon between the parties? Which section is it that has the criteria in it?
[RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL]: Section 8.
[APPLICANT'S COUNSEL]: Section 8, Deputy President.