13.1 the indigenous witnesses
271 The applicants adduced evidence from 27 Aboriginal people. Of these, three (Jacob Puntaru, Kunmarnarra Nyukurti and Richard Kulitja) did not provide a statement and gave oral evidence of only tangential relevance to the proceedings. Each of the remaining 24 indigenous witnesses prepared a written statement of his or her evidence, but the respondents required any contentious material to be led orally. Mr Parsons led the evidence from the male witnesses, while Ms Keely led the evidence from the female witnesses. Each of the 24 witnesses was cross-examined on behalf of one or both respondents.
272 The Aboriginal witnesses ranged greatly in age and seniority, although there were relatively few younger indigenous people among them. Only four of the Aboriginal witnesses (Bessie Liddle, Donald Fraser, Nicola Forrester and Peter Wilson) gave oral evidence without the assistance of an interpreter. The remainder gave their evidence in either the Yankunytjatjara or Pitjantjatjara dialect. A female interpreter, Ms Lena Taylor assisted the female witnesses, while Mr Leroy Lester interpreted for the male witnesses.
273 Most of the evidence from the Aboriginal witnesses was given at the Yulara Education Centre, which became a temporary courtroom for the purposes of the proceedings. However, some evidence was taken from the Aboriginal witnesses 'on-site'. This procedure had the advantage that the Aboriginal witnesses could point out important features of the landscape or describe their Tjukurrpa in a familiar environment and, subject to the necessary constraints involved in recording evidence, in a setting in which they felt relatively comfortable. Taking evidence on-site also had the advantage of enabling me to observe both the physical characteristics of the country and the so-called 'demeanour' of the Aboriginal people. This was particularly useful as the people described or demonstrated their attachment to and knowledge of the land, including their spiritual association with particular sites or tracks.
274 The on-country sites visited for the purpose of taking evidence included Mantarurr, an amphitheatre and rockhole about 60 kilometres to the southwest of Yulara (Day 10); Yularra Purlka Outstation and nearby sites close to Kata Tjurta (Day 11); Ampiyarra and other sites on the Application Area itself (Days 11 and 19); Katartitja, the site adjacent to Connellan Airport (Days 12 and 13); and a number of sites at or very close to Uluru (Day 20). In addition, the Court was taken to the Uluru Cultural Centre (Day 3). Curiously enough, I was not taken to Mutitjulu, the settlement where most members of the local indigenous community now live. It appears from the evidence that Mutitjulu is afflicted with social problems of the kind that unfortunately affect many indigenous communities.
275 I set out below the names and brief biographical information concerning the Aboriginal witnesses, based primarily on their own evidence. I refer to these witnesses by their preferred names or by the names used by counsel for the applicants. All but four of the witnesses are identified by the applicants in their proposed amendment to the pleadings as members of the compensation claim group (see par 230, above). The four witnesses who have not been included in the group are Barbara Tjikartu, Dora Haggie Walkabout, Pantjiti Mckenzie and Donald Fraser. I also include some information relating to Yami Lester, a knowledgeable and senior Aboriginal man, who was called as a witness by the Commonwealth.
· Johnny Jango (Jingo). Mr Jango was Chairperson of the Mutitjulu community at the time of the hearing. He was born between 1939 and 1944 at Maratjurra (Lyndavale Station), roughly 150 kilometres to the east of the Application Area. Mr Jango speaks both Yankunytjatjara and Pitjantjatjara, but also understands a number of other dialects. His father, Mick Wilyarti, was a Yankunytjatjara man, born near Yularra Purlka in the Kata Tjurta area. (Professor Sutton acknowledged that he had received contradictory information from Aboriginal people on Mick Wilyarti's birthplace.) Mick Wilyarti's father (Mr Jango's tjamu (father's father)) was Ngiyara and Mick's mother (Mr Jango's kami (grandmother)) was Tjintjiwarra. According to Mr Jango, his mother was born at Kulal, northeast of Docker River, approximately 200 kilometres to the west of the Application Area. His sisters are Millie Okai and Judy Kunmarnarra (Trigger), both of whom gave evidence. Mr Jango met his wife, Elsie Wunatjura, at Areyonga, where he went to school and lived for some time. Mr Jango and Elsie married according to Arnangu law. They have two surviving children, Todd and Rita. (Rita gave evidence, but Todd did not.) Mr Jango first visited Uluru as an unmarried wati (initiated man), when he travelled there with a group of watis. At the time there was no community, but Ian Cawood was operating the Ayres Rock Chalet. Mr Jango left Uluru and worked at many stations in the region, including Erldunda, Jay Creek and Docker River. He returned to Uluru before the 1985 Handback with his wife and two children. At one point in his evidence Mr Jango said that he was ngurraritja for Mutitjulu through his grandmother and also because he had lived there for some time. Later, however, he said that he was ngurraritja for Lyndavale Station and was 'local' for Mutitjulu.
· Judy Kunmarnarra (Trigger). Judy Kunmarnarra (Trigger) is Johnny Jango's sister. She was born in 1954 on the old Palmer Valley Station, which was located near the Stuart Highway east of the Application Area. She grew up on the new Palmer Valley Station, but later moved with her parents to Tempe Downs Station. Like Johnny Jango, she said that her mother, Eunice Nyunitju Intjipati, was born near Docker River and was a Pintjantatjara woman. Her father, Mick Wilyarti, was sometimes called Mintjwarra because he carried a long spear. Judy speaks Pitjantjatjara from her mother and Yankunytjatjara from her father. She married Derek Trigger (deceased), a Luritja man from Haasts Bluff whom she met at Areyonga. Judy has one son, born in 1976, and one grandchild. Judy moved to Mutitjulu in 1985, at about the time of the Handback. She worked for a long time at the Mutitjulu Primary School.
· Millie Okai. Millie Okai is Johnny Jango's 'big sister'. She was born at Lyndavale Station when her parents were working there. Her father, Johnny Nyukarli, was born at Karlaya, near Docker River. Her mother, Wirrika, was born at Pulari (Uluru) and grew up in that area (encompassing Yularra Purlka, Pirurrpa Karla and Ampiyarra). Wirrika was Mick Wilyarti's sister. Millie's maternal grandmother, Tjintjiwarra, was a Yankunytjatjara woman who was born at a place between Mantarurr and Pirurrpa Karla. Tjintjiwarra's first husband was Ngiyarri. After Ngiyarri's death, Tjintjiwarra married Mirruwanti (Ngiyarri's brother). Millie speaks Yankunytjatjara from her mother's side and Pitjantjatjara from her father's side. Millie's first husband was Nelson Okai. Nelson Okai's father was Hawkeye, who had two brothers, Minawara and Carbine. According to Millie, the three brothers' country was at Uluru. Millie first came to Uluru with her first husband. After he died, Millie moved eventually to Mutitjulu, where she married her second husband, Pastor Ezekiel, a Pitjantjatjara man from the Docker River area.
· Rita Jingo. Rita Jingo is Johnny Jango's daughter. Rita was born in 1971 in Alice Springs Hospital. At the time her parents were living at Jay Creek. Rita regards herself as a Yankunytjatjara woman through her father and paternal grandfather, Mick Wilyarti. Rita grew up speaking Pitjantjatjara because people around her spoke that language, but she can still speak Yankunytjatjara. Rita came with her family to Mutitjulu when she was about nine years of age. She attended school at Alice Springs, but visited her parents at Mutitjulu and Yularra Purlka during school holidays. She left school at 15 and has resided at Mutitjulu ever since. Rita's first husband (deceased), with whom she had two children, came from Snake Well in Western Australia. She is now married to Ashley Paddy from the Amata region and they have two children. Rita has worked as a Ranger in the National Park for several years.
· Reggie Uluru. Reggie was born in the late 1930s or early 1940s at Parramita, northwest of Indulkana, in South Australia, on what are now the Arnangu Pitjantjatjara Lands. Reggie's mother, Nancy, was a Yankunytjatjara woman, born at Mimili (Everard Park), to the south of Fregon (which itself is southeast of the Application Area). His father, Paddy Uluru, a Yankunytjatjara man, appears to have been born near Ernabella in South Australia, to the southeast of the Application Area. Reggie's paternal grandfather, Lungkarta, was born at Uluru and is buried there. Reggie's first language is Yankunytjatjara, but he also speaks Pitjantjatjara, Luritja and Arrernte. Reggie's siblings include his younger brother, Cassidy Uluru. Reggie met his wife, Sarah Goodwin, when she was working at Ernabella. Reggie has three children of whom the oldest is Sandra. (Sandra did not give evidence although she is named as a member of the compensation claim group.) From the time he was a young child, Reggie worked at stations with his father. He first went to Uluru as a boy, in the company of his family who hunted and collected food in the area. At that time Bill Harney was working as a Ranger. Reggie returned to Uluru to live long before the Handback, for which he signed many important papers. He worked with Derek Roff as a Ranger for a time. Reggie was a member of the first Board for the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park and has served as a member of the Mutitjulu Council.
· Cassidy Uluru. Cassidy Uluru, Reggie's brother, was born in about 1949 at Tjinawakanta, south of Wallatinna in South Australia. Cassidy's father was Paddy Uluru. His mother, Munyi (Molly) Breaden, was born at Mimili in South Australia. Like Paddy Uluru, Munyi Breaden spoke Yankunytjatjara. Cassidy grew up at Mimili where his parents were working, but he attended school for brief periods at Ernabella and Fregon. He first visited Uluru with his family when he was about five years old. At that time, Bill Harney lived in a tent at Uluru and tourists visiting the area overnight stayed in tents. Cassidy met his wife, Tiku, when both were camping at Murtitjulu as children. Tiku was born in Alice Springs and her first language is Pitjantjatjara. Cassidy's language is Yankunytjatjara but he also speaks Pitjantjatjara at home. As a young man and as an initiated man, Cassidy worked on cattle stations including Mimili, where he worked with his father. Cassidy moved to Uluru to live after his mother's death at Mimili, but before his own marriage. At the time, Derek Roff was the Ranger and Cassidy worked with him for wages. Cassidy participated in the Handback ceremonies and still works with the National Park.
· Bessie Liddle. Bessie Liddle was born at Iltjiltjarri near Tempe Downs Station. Her maiden name was Bessie Breaden. Her father, Jason Breaden, was born at Henbury Station. Jason Breaden's father was Alan Breaden, a white man. Bessie's mother, Tjanguwa Okai (also called Glenda Breaden), was born near Tempe Downs Station. Tjanguwa Okai's father was Kanakana Hawkeye, whose main language was Yankunytjatjara. Hawkeye's siblings included Mick Minawara and Carbine, both of whom were born around Uluru, and Ngui Ngui Tjalumi. Hawkeye got his name because he worked as a police tracker. Bessie's family moved around a lot when Bessie was young, as her father was a stockman. Bessie had some schooling at Alice Springs and Hermannsburg. Her father died when Bessie was about 14. After her father's death, Bessie's uncle, Bob Buck, took the family to his station at Mt Quinn. Bessie first visited Uluru in the 1960s with her husband, an Arrernte man (now deceased) who was raised in Alice Springs. Bessie's first language is Luritja, but she speaks Yankunytjatjara from her mother's side and Arrernte from her father's side. However, she gave her evidence without the assistance of an interpreter. In the 1970s Bessie and her family formed the Luritja Land Association to try to regain traditional Luritja lands.
· Nellie Armunta. Armunta was born in the late 1920s at Cave Hill in South Australia, about 100 kilometres south of the Application Area. Her father, Charlie Aluritja, was born at Mantarurr and was a Yankunytjatjara man. (Armunta told Professor Sutton that her father was born at Pirurrpa Karlarrinytja, a short distance to the northeast of Mantarurr.) Charlie Aluritja grew up in the Mantarurr area and around Kata Tjurta and Uluru. Armunta's mother, Murika, was a Yankunytjatjara woman, born at Apu Tjirlpi, near Mulga Park, about 80 or 90 kilometres to the southeast of the Application Area. Armunta's maternal and paternal grandparents were all Yankunytjatjara people. Her paternal grandfather, Purpartu, was born at Pirurrpa Karla, which is close to Mantarurr, and grew up in that area. Her paternal grandmother, Nyapatjarriny, was born and grew up at Ullkiya, to the south of the Application Area in South Australia. Armunta grew up at Mantarurr with her extended family group. The group lived in a traditional manner and hunted for food in many places in the area. Armunta married Dickie Minyintiri, who was born near Piipalyatjarra in Pitjantjatjara country. Although the sequence of events is not entirely clear, Armunta and Dickie lived for a long time at Ernabella and Armunta gave birth to five children in the bush near Ernabella. She also lived with her family at some stage at Mutitjulu, but they left there because they were upset at not getting a house. Armunta now apparently lives at Cave Hill. She has three surviving children, fourteen surviving grandchildren and six great grandchildren. Armunta is a custodian of the site at Katartitja which is registered with the Aboriginal Areas Protection Authority. None of Armunta's children gave evidence.
· Windlass Kunmarnarra (Aluritja). Windlass is Armunta's brother. He was born at Wintawarta, west of Amata, close to Cave Hill in South Australia. Windlass' language, like that of his parents, is Yankunytjatjara. He agreed with Armunta that their father, Charlie Uluritja, was born at Mantarurr. According to Windlass, his mother, Murika, was born at Kajikuta, near Amata. Windlass also said that his paternal grandfather, Pupartu, had been born to the east of Docker River at Urilpila. Windlass' wife, who died long ago, was from Karnypi and worked at the Mission School at Ernabella for a long time. All five of Windlass' children were born at Ernabella. As a child, Windlass walked around the Kata Tjurta and Uluru area with his family, although they appear to have spent most of their time at Mantarurr. They camped at different sites in the area including Yularra Purlka, Kurlpi Taltja, Kata Tjurta and Uluru. At some stage, the family travelled to Ernabella where Windlass attended school. After becoming a wati at Ernabella, Windlass hunted for dingo scalps around Mantarurr. As a man, Windlass worked at many stations in the region. He seems to have spent time at Uluru in the 1960s and 1970s, since he worked with Derek Roff and assisted ARAC with some of its work. Windlass said that he took his wife 'back to Mantarurr and [the] Kata Tjurta area', but it is not clear when this happened. Of Windlass' five children only one (Alison Carroll) gave evidence.
· Alison Carroll (Windlass). Alison Carroll'sparents are Windlass Aluritja and Tjuwilyi, a Pitjantjatjara woman born southwest of Ernabella. Alison herself was born at Ernabella in 1958 and still lives there. She identifies as both a Yankunytjatjara and Pitjantjatjara woman, but speaks mainly the latter dialect. Alison grew up at Ernabella and went to school there. She visited Kurlpi Tjarta as a very young girl for a short period in the company of her family. She would also travel to Mantarurr and Uluru with her father and siblings. As a 15 year-old she visited Uluru. She also visited Mantarurr as an adult in order to learn about the important places. Alison married Pipeye Carroll from 'Papunya, Haast's Bluff Areyonga side'. She and her husband have five children and two grandchildren, all of whom live at Ernabella. Alison serves on the Board of the National Park and also accompanies her father to other meetings.
· Nellie Patterson. MrsPatterson was born and 'smoked' in about 1938, at Piipalyatjarra, in the Tomkinson Ranges near the Western Australian border. Her Arnangu name is Nula. As a child, she lived mostly around Mantarurr, but the family returned to Piipalyatjarra in order for Mrs Patterson's mother, Mary Angili, to give birth to children. Mrs Patterson's language is Pitjantjatjara, but she speaks Yankunytjatjara and understands Warlpiri and Pintupi. Mrs Patterson's father, Tommy Mungurin, was also born at Piipalyatjarra but lived at Ernabella and Mulga Park. He was a Pitjantjatjara man, as was his father, Katanya (Mrs Patterson's paternal grandfather). Mrs Patterson's mother, Mary Angili was born at or near Umutju, near the Mann Ranges to the southwest of the Application Area. Mary's mother, Mitjunitja, grew up near Umutju. Mrs Patterson married her promised husband Tommy Wongin (deceased) from Karnpi, near Amata. His language was Yankunytjatjara which he got from his father, but he also spoke Pitjantjatjara from his mother's side. Mrs Patterson's son, Matthew, was born in 1983, apparently at Alice Springs. He was smoked in the bush near Amata, where the family was living at the time. As a child, Mrs Patterson walked with her extended family around Mantarurr, Kata Tjurta, Uluru, Yularra Purlka and other places in the area. Sometimes she would travel with Charlie Aluritja and his wife and her (Mrs Patterson's) maternal grandmother, Mitjunitja. Mrs Patterson lived at Mutitjulu with her husband for about 20 years and in the 1980s and 1990s she worked as a Park Ranger. She now lives in Alice Springs for health and family reasons. Mrs Patterson was a member of the Board of Management of the National Park for a long time. She was a founder of the Ngaanyatjarra Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Women's Council.
· Barbara Tjikartu. Tjikartu was born in about 1938 at Nyira in the Mann Ranges in South Australia, near the Western Australian border. Tjikartu's father, Wangili, was a Pitjantjatjara man who was born at Anumarra Pirti in Western Australia. Her mother was a Pitjantjatjara woman from the Puka Puka area near Piltarti, in the Mann Ranges. Tjikartu's language is Pitjantjatjara. Her maternal grandmother was Pantjiti, whose birth place was Piipalyatjarra in Pitjantjatjara country. Tjikartu married Nipper Winmati (deceased), a Yankunytjatjara man who was born near Docker River. (Millie Okai said that Nipper Winmati in fact was a Pitjantjatjara man.) Because of her marriage, Tjikartu is sometimes known as Barbara Nipper. Tjikartu is the mother of Colin Nipper, who gave evidence, and five other children. Tjikartu is a member of the Board of Management of the National Park. She has been actively involved in the development and operations of the Uluru Cultural Centre. (At an early stage in the proceedings, Mr Parsons said that Tjikartu, although not expressly named in par B1.8 of the Points of Claim, had interests in the area. However, he also suggested that Tjikartu had 'primary central interests elsewhere' and that her main interest in this area was as the mother of children who were members of the compensation claim group. During final submissions, Mr Basten handed up a document indicating that Tjikartu was indeed intended to be a member of the compensation claim group. For some unexplained reason, Tjikartu was excluded from the 'exhaustive' list of claimants embodied in the proposed amendment to par B1.8 of the Points of Claim.)
· Colin Nipper. Colin Nipper is the eldest child of Tjikartu and Nipper Winmati. He was born at a creek near Areyonga in the mid-1950's. At the time, his parents were living in Areyonga and had been for some time. Colin takes his surname from his late father. He speaks Pitjantjatjara, the language he learned at school in Areyonga, but he also speaks Luritja and Arrernte. Colin, whose Arnangu name is Antama, is married to Teresa Nipper, a Pitjantjatjara woman. Her country is Umutju in the southwest corner of the Northern Territory. Teresa has two children by her first husband Billy Wilson (deceased) and four children with Colin. One of Teresa's children by Billy Wilson is Peter Wilson.
· Peter Wilson. Peter Wilsonwas born in Alice Springs Hospital in 1973. His mother is Teresa Nipper, a Pitjantjatjara speaker from Areyonga. Peter's father, Billy Wilson, left the family when Peter was very young and Peter was raised by his stepfather, Colin Nipper. Peter's paternal grandparents (through his stepfather) are Nipper Winmati and Barbara Tjikartu. Peter was raised as a young child in Areyonga, but was educated in Ballarat (Victoria), Alice Springs and Darwin. After leaving school, he completed a Land Management course at Batchelor College. Peter commenced work in 1994 as a trainee Ranger at the National Park and at the time of the hearing was a Ranger whose responsibilities included the Mala (rufous hare wallaby), Kuniya (python) and Lirru (brown snake) walks at Uluru. Peter's first language is Pitjantjatjara, but he is fluent in English and gave his evidence in that language. Peter is married to an Arrernte woman from the 'right side' and they have three daughters, all of whom were born in Alice Springs Hospital. Peter said in evidence that he would 'lean towards' Docker River (where his 'ancestors' came from) and Areyonga (where he grew up) as his traditional country.
· Malya Teamay. Malya Teamay was born in 1947 at Tjulu (Curtin Springs), which is now located on the Lasseter Highway, east of the Application Area. Malya's mother, Amanyi, came from the Blackstone area in Western Australia. Her language was Ngaatjatjara. Malya's father, Willy Kuntjurmini, was born near Lake Wilson on the borders of Northern Territory, Western Australia and South Australia. Willy Kuntjurmini spoke Yankunytjatjara and Pitjantjatjara. Malya himself grew up speaking Pitjantjatjara, Luritja, Arrernte and Ngaatjatjarra. Malya has been married twice and has four children. He lived in a number of places with his first wife, Mona, and together they conducted a tourist business at Tjulu, on the way to Uluru. Malya first visited Uluru in about 1961, before he had completed wati ceremonies. This was in Bill Harney's time, when Malya's uncle, Snowy Minyintiri, was also working at Uluru. In 1983, Malya was living with his family at Docker River, but took up an opportunity in that year to move to Uluru. He has lived in the area ever since, apart from one period when he lived in Alice Springs. Malya currently resides at Mutitjulu and has served as Chairman of the Mutitjulu Community Council. Malya Teamay is Chairman of the Indigenous Heritage Committee set up by the Park Rangers and has served on the Board of Management for the National Park.
· Kitty Impana (Collins). Kitty Impana was born at Areyonga in 1953, when her parents, Snowy Minyintiri and Mary Tjingapa, were living there. Impana is a step-sister to Barbara Tjikartu because Tjikartu's mother married Snowy Minyintiri when Impana was small. Snowy Minyintiri was a Nyakatatjara man who also spoke Pitjantjatjara. He grew up near Docker River, where his mother was born. Impana's mother, Mary Tjingapa, a Yankunytjatjara woman, was born at Yulara and is buried at Mutitjulu. Mary Tjinjapa's father (Impana's maternal grandfather) was a Yankunytjatjara man from Kata Tjurta and Titirarra. Impana's first husband died many years ago. Her second husband, Des Kunoth was born at Tjunti and grew up at Angas Downs. He is the father of Impana's two children, one of whom (Raelene) was born on a sandhill near Murtitjulu.
· Frank Djana. Frank Djana is Kitty Impana's brother. The name 'Djana' was given to him by the missionaries at Areyonga, where he was born. He is also known as 'Dr Frank' because he worked in health care for a long time. According to Dr Frank, his mother, Mary Miyarini, was born at Pirurrpa Karlarrinytja, near Kata Tjurta, and spoke Yankunytjatjara. Dr Frank's father, whom he called Nui Minyintiri, was born west of Docker River, but died at Mutitjulu in 1985. Dr Frank himself was born at Areyonga and became an initiated man there. He first went to Uluru as a married man with children. He moved to Mutitjulu at about Handback time. Dr Frank at one time was the Chairperson of the Mutitjulu Community Council.
· Ngoi Ngoi Donald. Ngoi Ngoi was born in the bush at Wartarrka (Kings Canyon), at a time when her mother was travelling across country by camel. She received the special name 'Ngoi Ngoi' from her paternal grandmother. Her father was Lively No 1 Palyinjka, Nipper Winmati's brother. Lively No 1 was a Yankunytjatjara man who was born at a women's site near Murtitjulu Springs (Uluru) and grew up at Uluru and Kata Tjurta. Ngoi Ngoi's mother, Imanturra, was born near Docker River and spoke Pitjantjatjara. Ngoi Ngoi grew up speaking that dialect, but says that she identifies as a Yankunytjatjara person notwithstanding that she was born on Luritja country. As a child, Ngoi Ngoi lived with her parents at Areyonga because they could get rations there. She would travel to Mutitjulu by camel 'for holidays'. At that time Bill Harney was living there in a tent. Ngoi Ngoi worked at a motel at Uluru for a short period during Bill Harney's time. She then appears to have lived at Areyonga, although after the Handback she lived with Tjikartu and Nipper Winmati at Ampiyarra. She then went to Mutitjulu where she stayed for a long time before finally returning to Areyonga. Ngoi Ngoi married William Donald, who was born at Waralla, near Angas Downs, and whose language is Pitjantjatjara. Ngoi Ngoi has three children and one grandchild. Although the children were included in the compensation claim group, they did not give evidence.
· Dora Haggie Walkabout. Dora Walkabout was born at Urrampinyi, on Tempe Downs Station, where her parents were living at the time. Her mother was a Pitjantjatjara woman who was born at Mantapalyka, near Mantarurr Itjinpi. Dora's father, Wintjin Walkabout, was born and grew up near Docker River. Dora's mother died when Dora was young and she was brought up by Tjintjiwarra, who was married to the younger brother of Dora's father. Dora's language is Pitjantjatjara, but she also speaks Arrernte. Dora's first husband was Don Okai, a Yankunytjatjara man born at Maratjarra (Lyndavale). They had six children together. After Don Okai's death, Dora became a co-wife of Stanley Kunmarnarra (deceased) and they had one child together. Stanley Kunmarnarra was born at Urlayipa, near Mulga Park. He was the youngest brother of Nellie Armunta and Windlass Aluritja. Dora has served on the Board of Management for the National Park. In her evidence, Dora claimed to be ngurraritja for Mantarurr, Itjinpi, Mutitjulu, Kata Tjurta, Yularra Purlka and Yulara. Nonetheless, she is not included in the compensation claim group put forward by the applicants in their proposed amendment to par B1.8 of the Points of Claim.
· Pantjiti McKenzie. PantjitiMcKenzie was born and grew up near Blackstone in Western Australia. Pantjiti's father was from the same place, while her mother was a Pitjantjatjara woman from the Lake Wilson area. Pantjiti's main language is Pitjantjatjara from her mother, but she also speaks Ngaatjatjara from her father's side. Pantjitji is married to Simon Mckenzie, who was born at Pulkurru near Mount Conner, about 100 kilometres to the east of the Application Area. The evidence is somewhat unclear, but it appears that Pantjiti and her husband lived in Mutitjulu for many years from the mid 1950s. Pantjiti's son, Jacob, was born at Mutitjulu and lived there until he was aged three. Pantjiti now lives in Alice Springs because of her husband's ill-health. (As I have noted, Pantjiti is not said to be a member of the compensation claim group. Ms Keely explained that Pantjiti was giving evidence because her son, Jacob, is a claimant. However, Jacob did not give evidence and the list of claimants ultimately put forward by the applicants in their proposed amendment to the Points of Claim does not include him.)
· Betty (Biddy) Conway. Betty Conway was born at Tempe Downs in 1956 and grew up at Areyonga where she attended school. Her father, Alec Conway, was born at Tempe Downs, but she was brought up by her stepfather, Big Foot Tjamulmalyi (also called Tjinapulka). Big Foot had two wives, the second of whom was Betty's mother, Ivy Kalykulya, a Yankunytjatjara woman born at Pirurrpa Karla. Big Foot's sister, Eunice, was married to Mick Wilyarti and their children were Johnny Jango and Judy Kunmarnarra (Trigger). Ivy Kalykula's mother was Witjiwarra and her aunt (Witjiwarra's sister) was Mary Miyariny, whose children were Frank Djana and Kitty Impana. Betty does not appear ever to have lived in the Uluru-Kata Tjurta area, having moved from Areyonga to Alice Springs in 1979. However, as a child Betty went to Uluru to visit her brother, Alex Forrester (now deceased), and in more recent times she has visited the area 'a couple of times each year'. Betty had one child with her first husband in 1974. After her first husband's death when their son was a little baby, she married Billy Armstrong, a Pertame man, with whom she had four children. One of their children, Selissa, is a Senior Ranger at the National Park and has lived at Mutitjulu since the age of 16. Betty can speak Yankunytjatjara but has not spoken it a great deal recently. She also speaks Pitjantjatjara and Luritja.
· Nicola Forrester. Nicola Forrester was born in Alice Springs in 1972. She lives in Victoria for family reasons and gave her evidence in English. Ms Forrester's father was Alec (or Alex) Forrester (deceased), a Pitjantjatjara man from the Western Desert. Her mother is Nola Armstrong, an Arrernte woman from Alice Springs whose country is around Finke River. Ms Forrester has five children. She grew up speaking Pitjantjatjara and indeed is an accredited interpreter in that language. She also learned Arrernte from her mother. Ms Forrester lived at Finke and Jay Creek when she was very young and later attended school in Alice Springs, Adelaide and Darwin (Batchelor College). The family visited Uluru often. When Ms Forrester's parents separated, her father moved to Uluru, but the children stayed with their mother. After her marriage at a young age, Ms Forrester lived for a time at Yularra Purlka and thereafter at Mutitjulu. Ms Forrester worked at the National Park for a total of nine years, in the course of which she learned the Tjukurrpa stories from older Aboriginal people and Park staff.
· Donald Fraser. Donald Fraser was born in 1947 or 1948 at Ernabella. His father, Tommy Minyungu, was born at Kurlpi Tjarta and spoke Yankunytjatjara as his main language. Mr Fraser's paternal grandfather, Warawarra, was born at Uluru and thus his country included Uluru and Kata Tjurta. Mr Fraser's mother, Inyalangka, is a Pitjantjatjara woman. Donald lives at Yunyaryni, east of Ernabella (formerly Kenmore Park Pastoral Lease) and has done so since 1978. As a child Mr Fraser moved around with his parents. He started school at age 10 or 11 at Ernabella and became a wati at Areyonga. Mr Fraser visited Kulpi Tjarta when he was very small, travelling on foot or by camel from Ernabella. He later visited Uluru as a wati. Mr Fraser's wife is from Walytja Tjarta in the Mann Ranges. He and his wife have four children. Mr Fraser has been the Chairperson of the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park since 2003. He gave his evidence in English. Mr Fraser was not put forward as a member of the compensation claim group, either in the original pleadings or in the proposed amendments to par B1.8 of the Points of Claim. Nonetheless, Mr Fraser claimed that he could speak for Uluru because it was his father's and grandfather's country. He also maintained that he is next in line after Windlass Aluritja and Jim Nyukuti, who was said by Dr Willis to be recognised as ngurraritja for an area to the west of Kata Tjurta, as a senior man for Uluru.
· Julie Clyne. Julie Clyne was born in Alice Springs in 1958. Her father, Ben Clyne, was born in the 1930s, also in Alice Springs. Ben Clyne had a white father but he was raised by Arrapi, a man from the Kata Tjurta area, as Arrapi's son. Ben Clyne's sister was Tintjiwarra. Julie Clyne's mother, Daisy Clyne, was born at Mt Cavenagh Station. As a child, Julie travelled to different stations with her father. When she was 11 years of age she was taken to Amoonguna to go to school. She first visited Ulpanyali (Kings Canyon) as a teenager and later went to live there. Julie now lives at Ulpanyali Outstation, east of the Ulpanyali sacred site of which she is the custodian. Julie has two children who also live at Ulpanyali. She has never lived around the Uluru-Kata Tjurta area and, as she agreed in cross-examination, does not know the laws or Tjukurrpa for this country.
· Yami Lester. Yami Lester was called as a witness by the Commonwealth but the applicants relied on some of his evidence to support their case. It is fair to say that Mr Lester is a remarkable man. He was born in 1941 at Wallatinna Station in South Australia, in what he described as Yankunytjatjara country. He is now the owner of the station and lives there. Mr Lester's mother was a Pitjantjatjara woman and his stepfather was a Yankunytjatjara man. Mr Lester's stepfather's sister, Munyi, was married to Paddy Uluru. As a child, Mr Lester had no education in the 'white man's way' and he grew up speaking only Yankunytjatjara. His stepfather worked on various stations and the family travelled to those places. People would walk in family groups from one station to another and on these travels Mr Lester heard the Dreaming stories from Paddy Uluru. At the age of 16 Mr Lester became blind, a condition he attributes to radiation from the atomic tests at Maralinga in the early 1950s. He then went to Adelaide for about 14 years, where he lost touch with his people. While in Adelaide he learned English and he returned to central Australia to act as a translator for Western Desert languages. He also received training in welfare and social work. Mr Lester was involved in the establishment of the Central Land Council and of the Institute for Aboriginal Development. He also participated in the work of ARAC in the mid-1970s. At the time he gave evidence Mr Lester, among other positions held by him, was the Chairperson of the Yankunytjatjara Council and a Board Member of the South Australia Aboriginal Housing Authority. Mr Lester's country is his birthplace, Wallatinna, and Iltur (Coffin Hill) through his mother's side. He does not claim that the area around Uluru-Kata Tjurta is his country.