[PROSECUTOR]: Well in my respectful submission, given that the facts in issue are the state of mind, knowledge and the like. The 2001 matters - or the absence of the 2001 matters, in my respectful submission, would substantially weaken the prosecution case.
HER HONOUR: Yes.
[PROSECUTOR]: And so therefore I would be - well my submission is that in the words of [s 295](3)(a), '[a] party may not seek leave to appeal unless the judge certifies'.
HER HONOUR: But given the findings I've made in respect of the significance of the 2001 evidence, and, in fact, the [force] with which the Crown argued for [its admission] -
[PROSECUTOR]: Yes.
HER HONOUR: - you'd be hard pushed to say its exclusion would - wouldn't substantially weaken the prosecution case. I mean, you could run your case without it.
[PROSECUTOR]: Well we've got the existing -
HER HONOUR: Yes.
[PROSECUTOR]: - 2014 evidence.
HER HONOUR: Yes. That's right.
[PROSECUTOR]: As it is. But - and perhaps I'll focus on the word, 'substantially.'
HER HONOUR: Yes.
[PROSECUTOR]: That's the word I should focus on.
HER HONOUR: Yes.
[PROSECUTOR]: Certainly, the absence of the 2001 evidence would weaken the prosecution case.
HER HONOUR: Yes. Would it substantially weaken it, that's the question.
[PROSECUTOR]: That's the real question.
HER HONOUR: Yes.
[PROSECUTOR]: The 2001 -
HER HONOUR: You could run your case without it, you'd still have an arguable case.
[PROSECUTOR]: Absolutely.
HER HONOUR: Yes. And you would've run your case if you didn't have the 2001 evidence.
[PROSECUTOR]: Absolutely.
HER HONOUR: And it would've passed all the threshold tests for whether it was appropriate to lay the charges and reasonable prospects of conviction, no doubt about any of that.
[PROSECUTOR]: Precisely.