HIS HONOUR: There's a fair hint of minimising the conduct in his record of interview, isn't there?
MR MARSH: To an extent, Your Honour. That said, he - - -
HIS HONOUR: To a large extent.
MR MARSH: Well, he certainly, without any prompting from the police, he describes what happened. He said that he touched her inappropriately.
HIS HONOUR: He doesn't give a truthful account, if you read the complainant's statement and accept that. In other words, he minimises his - he says it's a momentary thing that occurs very quickly. He talks about how the complainant voluntarily removes her clothing. A whole range of things. He doesn't disclose all that he was up to. There's a whole range of matters in the record of interview which go to minimise what actually occurred.
MR MARSH: I don't necessarily take issue with Your Honour's comments. Some of those are no doubt due to effectively difference in perspective between the two participants in what occurred.
HIS HONOUR: There's more than a perspective - - -
MR MARSH: I accept that.
HIS HONOUR: When one is on the bed or on the side of the bed, a 35 year old man with his 12 year old niece, where he's got his penis out, and where he's between her legs and at the very least inserts his - he sucks her vagina and puts his tongue in her vagina. That seems to slip his mind when he's telling the police about what actually - - -
MR MARSH: Look, that's so, Your Honour, and the record of interview makes no reference to the oral penetration.
HIS HONOUR: No.
MR MARSH: Your Honour may be aware this matter proceeded through the Magistrate's Court in the committal stream. It was listed for what's known as a committal case conference and there were two such hearings prior to this matter resolving to the current presentment.
The issue in those committal case conferences was really that issue of the oral penetration. My instructions were at the time, and I acted for him at that time, that whilst he had no recollection of the oral penetration occurring, he didn't dispute what the victim said, and perhaps, more importantly, Your Honour, he made it very clear at that stage that he had no desire to put the victim to her proof. He had no desire to take it any further. So there was certainly an issue about that particular - - -
HIS HONOUR: But all that might be a relevant matter. It might be an indication which you're seeking to establish, however, what I was really taking issue with was your assertion that he went to the police and in a fit of remorse and shame disclosed all. He did - - -
MR MARSH: Your Honour, I don't recall having said that he disclosed all, but there's certainly a very profound tone of remorse and shame through the interview. At every opportunity he not only professes his disgust at his own actions, but as the prosecutor quite rightly pointed out, absolved the victim of any responsibility - - -
HIS HONOUR: That's the prosecutor's view of what the record of interview reads like, but if you analyse what he says in the record of interview he, in my view, at least, does endeavour to involve the complainant in consensual activity by things like saying that, and I haven't got them all here, but I can take you to them, and no doubt we'll be able to debate them, the fact that she requested him, for example, to start the moisturising process. Then she requested a further massage. She took her clothes off, took her top off, and then her bra off, and seemed to be lying there, half asleep and not objecting, and not - if you read the record of interview it does, in my view, seek to involve the complainant in consensual activities.