COUNSEL: Your Honour, in relation to the relevance of this evidence, [CA] has had a troubled background, she has trouble with her father, she has had - her mother has lived with [F], for example. She's had a lot of problems. The Department of Human Services have been involved with [CA] and her family. Now - - -
HIS HONOUR: What's it got to do with this case?
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COUNSEL: The relevance, your Honour, is this, that is that the - if the jury might - if the jury have an understanding of where [CA] has come from, the context of her life, the fact that it has been a very troubled life.
HIS HONOUR: Yes.
COUNSEL: They might think that, or be of the opinion that the reason that she is behaving the way she is behaving, cutting and the rest of it is because of her background not because of [what] the accused has done to her. Because right now they don't know anything really about her background. I'm not going to go into a huge amount of detail, but I do want to be able to put to her that the department has been involved.
HIS HONOUR: But it leaves it so vague. The department has been involved is a pejorative concept it seem[s] that might make aspects of her life - the wrong slant on it. That is, may be a sense that the Department of Human Services had become involved in wayward children's lives and uncontrollable children's lives and that's a concept that would not be based on any evidence and would be a prejudice that would be unfair to her. So to just simply say the Department of Human Services have been involved in your life just allows things to be too speculative.
What is the point you're driving at? Are you just saying to her, 'Look, you said that you were cutting and all those sorts of things, that's as a consequence of all the difficulties that you've had in your life with your Mum and different partners and the fact you don't get on with your stepfather and the fact you don't get on with your mother'? Why don't you say that to her, what's wrong with that? Then you get to the point where, I think you're driving at fairly - - -
COUNSEL: Just she's had a troubled life.
HIS HONOUR: That's not her fault. That's essentially - it's not her fault.
COUNSEL: No, it isn't her fault.
HIS HONOUR: Well that's why I think there is a risk that - just suggesting the Department of Human Services has been involved in your life lays it potentially open for a prejudicial view of her to come out that it's because she's wayward.
COUNSEL: Well your Honour - I'm not in a position to say whether she's wayward or not wayward, but it would certainly appear from the Department of Human Services' material that she has had serious problems. She has been drinking, she has been cutting, there has been a lot of things that have been happening to her.
HIS HONOUR: You're entitled to ask her those things if you think it substantially affects her credit, that is that if she's cutting you want to neutralise that it might be because of the effect of the crime upon her, that's legitimate. It's a rebuttal proposition from re-examination you're anticipating and rightly so, but it can't be done as such a generalised thing. When you've got the material, just put it to her.
COUNSEL: I was just going to - sorry, your Honour. I was just going to introduce it. That's the way I was going to introduce it, but I can go about it another way, it's fine.
HIS HONOUR: I often think that the introductory questions are the ones that get us into difficulty in having a debate about something that we don't need to, because if you'd said to her 'None of this cutting business has got anything to do with Mr Lancaster, it's all to do with other things?' she'd be able to tackle it. It's legitimate. I don't say you have to put it in that way, but I'm not allowing a generalised proposition about the Department of Human Services.
COUNSEL: No, all right. I'll cut straight to - -
HIS HONOUR: Yes, get to - the point is something should be on the page of every cross-examiner perhaps, but anyway we'll bring the jury in. Are you ready to go?
COUNSEL: Yes.