MR WILLIAMS: So, Mr Cormey, I was asking you just before lunch - but not very competently, so let's start again and I'll see if I can get the question a bit clearer. I was at p.18 of your affidavit - - - Yeah.
And I was asking you about subparagraph D. Do you recall? - - - Yeah.
And, in particular, my question is this: we are here looking at - in the meantime, I think you wanted to look at the full affidavit. Did you satisfy yourself about that?Yes.
So can we use this - go back to using this extract now?Yes.
Good, thank you. So you recall that what you are recording here is the contents of an affidavit that you made on 11 May last year?Yes.
And on 11 May last year, you swore that at the mention on 24 February 2016, for Judicial Registrar Gourlay, the things set out in subparagraphs A, B and C and D all happened?Yes.
And one of things is D. So you swore on 11 May that on 24 February Mr Sizenko made false representations?Yes.
And so as of the 24th - sorry, at the - as of 11 May, when you swore that, it was your view, was it, that he had made a representation and it was false?On 24 February, yes.
On 24 February that was your view? Yes.
Had that view changed by 11 May? Not by the 11th, no.
So on 11 May when you swore this, you were saying so - all right, so let's take both dates then. So on 24 February you had formed the view that the representation was false, because the applicant had not paid the costs? Yes.
On what basis have you formed that view? In terms of the cost from the invoice, the 599. The invoice itself says that the entitlement is outstanding, and Mr Sandbach made submissions at the hearing on the 24th that none of the invoices have been paid, and that it hadn't been corrected by Mr Sizenko, who was appearing on the other side.
The fact that Mr Sizenko didn't say anything was
enough? Didn't correct - yeah.
You had formed the view that he had made a false representation to the court? Yes, I believe that was correct, yes.
On what basis did you instruct Mr - well, first of all, I assume you instructed Mr Sandbach to make that submission, that no invoices were
MR SANDBACH: Well, Your Honour, I object to that. Again, whether it was this solicitor or some other solicitor in the company, it is plainly fishing as to plainly privileged matters.
MR WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask you this question. As at 24 February, did you have any way of knowing whether or not the invoices had been paid? On 24 February?
Yes? Not before the hearing.
At the moment that Mr Sandbach made those submissions, that the invoices had not been paid, he was making a submission about which you had no knowledge? Apart from the fact that the invoice itself said that there was no amount paid.
Well, is that not true of almost every invoice ever issued in the entire world? Not every invoice. I know what we have invoices where there's part payment.
HIS HONOUR: Speak up, please? Sorry, my apologies, Your Honour.
I am terribly sorry. It is bad acoustics. I really need to hear what you say? Yep, so I wouldn't say that was for every invoice.
MR WILLIAMS: I said almost for every invoice? Almost every invoice. In my experience, yes.
The mere fact that an invoice records that as at the moment the invoice is issued, it hasn't been paid, tells you nothing about whether, by a date nine days after the date of the invoice, it's been paid, does it? The amounts claimed in the invoice did go back a long way, but no, at that time, no.
Mr Sandbach made a submission to the court that the invoice had not been paid, at a time when you and your client, who were instructing him, had no way of knowing whether or not that was correct? Yes.
As at 11 May, when you swore the affidavit, did he have any different information? I don't believe so.
Is it not the fact that your client, through Mr Sandbach, and then - as to what was said on that day, and then, through your affidavit here, had made allegations of a serious nature about matters which he could not know whether they were true or not? We believed them to be true.
On what basis? On the basis that it was a substantial invoice that - at the time it had been rendered, it certainly hadn't been paid. The hearing was not long after it'd been rendered.
Do you think that without more, it's a sufficient basis to make an allegation of very serious misconduct, namely the misleading of a court? At that stage, at the stage that the paragraph (d) comes in, the hearing had occurred, the submission had been put, and it hadn't been challenged or corrected.
Let me take you to the notice of objections that were filed on behalf of your client initially, as a document entitled, "Notice of objections". It is your EC29.
HIS HONOUR: Where was that again?
MR WILLIAMS: EC29, Your Honour.
HIS HONOUR: I'm sorry, thank you.
MR WILLIAMS: Do you have it, Your Honour?
HIS HONOUR: I have got EC26, I've got EC28. Do I have EC29? No, I have EC30.
MR WILLIAMS: Well, you got even numbers, Your Honour.
HIS HONOUR: No, I have got 27 as well. I am just going through them all again, just to see if I could - if something is stuck together.
MR WILLIAMS: Do we have another copy we could provide His Honour? I looked on yours. I will give His Honour my clean - it's not clean, mine is marked. Could we hand up for Your Honour's use - momentarily, at least - a copy of that document?
HIS HONOUR: It is amazing. I have got everything but 29. Thank you. I will keep this.
MR WILLIAMS: You do not have it because I took it out earlier. I took you to it in opening.
HIS HONOUR: I have got it, I found it.
MR WILLIAMS: Right, so...[27]