The Deputy Mayor's evidence
48The plaintiff's submissions place great weight on Deputy Mayor, Councillor Neilson's, "discretion and experience" as "a woman of some considerable experience" (written submissions paragraph 2(a)). She had agreed to the plaintiff's proposal of going to see the Campbells, and made two contributions to this scheme. First, she invited Mr Manns to attend as a support person for the Campbells (and, it would appear from her evidence at T 213, she spoke to Mr Manns; according to her evidence in the first hearing, she also asked Mr Wells, but she did not refer to this in the hearing before me). Secondly, she suggested, having discovered that the plaintiff had not telephoned the Campbells to arrange the meeting that day, that he do so.
49The Deputy Mayor's description, in the first hearing, of how she came to accompany the plaintiff to the Campbells' home was as follows:
"Q. So with that structure in mind can you take up what was said by whom after the general manager had offered to prepare a letter for you and the mayor to sign to go to the ombudsman?
A. The mayor said, "I would like to go and discuss this with the Campbells" and I said, "Well I'd be quite prepared to come with you to have a discussion with them. Maybe there is something that we missed that we should have done."
CONNELL
Q. Where did this conversation take place?
A. That conversation with the mayor took place not in the general manager's office but after we had left and we were travelling back home.
Q. Back to whose home?
A. Well, generally what happened, I would take my car to Cobargo and leave it there and I would travel in with the mayor because it's a lot cheaper, it saves money. So it would have been in the car coming back from Bega which is approximately an hour away from where we live.
Q. And did something happen about that suggestion, was something done about it?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. What happened?
A. The mayor travelled down to Bermagui and we drove into town and we parked in town and the mayor decided, he said, "I will call the Campbells to make sure they are home and to ensure it's okay to come and visit them."
Q. At about what time of day was this?
A. It was in the afternoon maybe around 2.30, something like that, I'm not exactly sure but it was in the afternoon though definitely. The reason I recall it was in the afternoon was because the mayor then rang the Campbells and Muriel answered the phone.
Q. What did you observe or hear?
A. I heard it because he had the phone in the car, I was in the car with him.
HIS HONOUR
Q. Could you hear both sides of the conversation, or was it on
A. No, it wasn't on speaker phone.
Q. So you could just hear the mayor?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you tell me what you heard him say?
A. The mayor said, "Hello Muriel, we are in Bermagui and I have a letter here that you have sent to the ombudsman expressing concern that we haven't done some of the things that we agreed to do for you and I'd like to come up and discuss it with yourself and Gary." She said, "Well Gary's not home." Sorry, I can't tell you that.
Q. You didn't hear that, did you?
A. No, I didn't hear that.
Q. Don't tell me something you didn't hear?
A. No, when the mayor hung up the phone he turned round and advised me.
[Objection]
Q. Not saying what the mayor said to you about what Muriel said to him, what happened next?
A. There was an interim during which we were waiting for Gary Campbell to come home from school. He worked at the school, and during that time
Q. About how long was that interval?
A. Probably halfanhour, about that.
Q. And during that time?
A. And during that time I decided to call John Manns who was very well respected by the aboriginal community because, in my view, I didn't want to go to the Campbells' with them feeling challenged. In my view, we were going there to find out what was wrong, what the issues were, because the letter clearly indicated there were problems, and I personally wanted someone there who had a strong rapport with the aboriginal community, to reassure them. So I rang John Manns I took the mayor's phone from him, and I rang John Manns, and I asked John, "would you be prepared to come down to a meeting with the Campbells in relation to the incidents that happened in Hill Street and other issues", and he said his answer to me was
"I'd be prepared to come but I will only be at a meeting if Gary and Muriel are happy for me to be there", and I said, "that's fine, we'll leave that to them", and I told him where we were, and he came down and met us, and we waited" (Transcript before Colexfax SC DCJ, T 242 line 39 to T 244 line 48)
50The Deputy Mayor's evidence in these proceedings was that she had made errors in her evidence in the first hearing. The plaintiff had not said that he would ring the Campbells, or rung from them from her home, or rung them before Mr Mann was contacted. The plaintiff had rung the Campbells from his car after both the plaintiff and Councillor Neilson realised each had assumed the other would telephone the Campbells, but neither had. In cross-examination, Councillor Neilson explained:
"Q. Did he not say when he picked you up, "I'll ring the Campbells"? This is when he picked you up?
A. (No verbal reply)
Q. Otherwise, you see, you say, "And we parked in town"?
A. Yes.
Q. I just can't work out why you would drive into town if it wasn't see the Campbells. That's all?
A. Well, we were going into town and I, I presumed that he'd already rung them. And I found that he hadn't rung them and so he said, "Well, I'll ring them." And we'd already organised to meet John Manns at Bridge Motors. So he rang them from there. We were, we were parked at Bridge Motors.
Q. When you were at your home--
A. Yes.
Q. --did he say, "Look, I want to discuss this with the Campbells"?
A. He said that over the telephone before he got to my place and asked me would I come with him.
Q. Did he say he wanted a meeting with the Campbells?
A. Well, he wanted to find out what we hadn't done, what, what was wrong because we thought we'd done everything they asked. And he didn't understand what was - the problem was.
Q. Yes. But did he say he wanted to meet the Campbells--
A. Yes.
Q. --to discuss those matters?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you say at line 20--
A. Line 20.
Q. "He rang the Campbells and Muriel answered the phone." Is that right?
A. Well, he told me it was Muriel. Yes. Because he--
Q. He said he was ringing the Campbells, didn't he?
A. Yes. And, and, and it was Muriel because he - Muriel said - he said, "Hello, Muriel."
Q. You couldn't hear who answered?
A. No. He said, "Hello, Muriel.", so I knew it was Muriel and he said, "It's Tony Allen calling."
Q. Then he said, "I have a letter here I want to talk to you about." Is that right?
A. Yes. To the best of my recollection, yes.
Q. I'm down to line 35?
A. Yes.
Q. "Hello, Muriel"?
A. Yes.
Q. "We are in Bermagui"?
A. Yes.
Q. First of all, he said, "I'm Tony" - you know, "I'm Tony Allen, the mayor"?
A. "It's, it's Tony Allen calling."
Q. Right?
A. Yeah.
Q. "Hello, Muriel. We're in Bermagui"?
A. Yes.
Q. "I have a letter here that you sent to the ombudsman." Right?
A. Yes.
Q. "Expressing concern that we haven't done something - some of the things that we agreed to do"?
A. Yes.
Q. "I want to come up and discuss this with you and Gary"?
A. Yes.
Q. Right?
A. Yes.
Q. He was angry when he said that?
A. No, he wasn't at all.
Q. Was he happy when he said that?
A. He was just matter of fact.
Q. He was happy?
A. Well, I don't know that he was happy or sad. He was just ordinary.
Q. He was very, very, very, very upset, wasn't he?
A. No.
Q. What?
A. No.
Q. He wasn't?
A. No. He was confused I would say.
Q. Well, just a moment. Didn't he say to you that he was very, very, very, very upset about the content of the letter?
A. To me?
Q. Yes, to you?
A. He said to me that he couldn't understand it. I can't remember the exact words. You said that's a long time ago but he didn't - I don't recall him saying to me that he was very, very, very, very upset.
Q. So if he said he had said that to you he would be wrong; is that right?
A. I don't know. I don't recall him saying it.
Q. Did he not say to you he was very, very, very, very upset about that letter?
A. Not that I can recall.
Q. Did you say to him you were very concerned about the letter yourself?
A. I was concerned.
Q. What?
A. I was concerned. I was, I was confused and concerned because I thought we'd done what they'd asked us to do and it would appear that they felt we hadn't and I thought, well, what's, what's gone wrong.
Q. Were you angry?
A. No.
Q. The mayor was very upset, wasn't he?
A. I don't believe he was very upset.
Q. He said to Muriel in your hearing that he wanted his name taken out of the letter?
A. No. I don't recall that at all.
Q. You mean he didn't say it or you just can't remember whether he said it or not?
A. I don't believe he said it.
Q. Are you there at page 243 at line 35?
A. Line 35.
Q. Have you got that there?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. That's the conversation that you say took place, is that right, between Mr Allen and Muriel Campbell?
A. Yes, that's correct." (T 209 line 8 to T 212 line 2)
51The Deputy Mayor explained her change of evidence concerning ringing Mr Manns as follows:
"Q. Then you said at line 35, "And during that time I decided to call John Manns"?
A. Yes. And that's where I, I mentioned the--
Q. What?
A. That's where I mentioned I had my timelines wrong because I rang - I, I checked my phone records and there were no calls on my mobile to John Manns.
Q. Do you say that was wrong?
A. Yes.
Q. "And during that time I decided to call John Manns who's very well respected by the Aboriginal community"?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Is that right?
A. Yes. I rang him from my home before we left I believe.
Q. When did you find out that was wrong?
A. When did I find out?
Q. Yesterday?
A. No, no, no, no.
Q. The day after you said it?
A. No.[Objection]
Q. When did you realise your evidence before Judge Colefax was wrong?
A. I'm just trying to think. It was - it was fairly recently and it hadn't made - John, John Manns said to me that he was in the car when the phone call was made and I said to John, "But I don't recall you being in the car", and he said, "I was there", and I thought, well, how could he have been there if I rang him after he - after the phone call. So I deliberately checked my phone records and could see that there were no calls on my mobile and then when I really sat down and thought about it I realised that I - I had to have made those calls to both John and Don Wells before I left home." (T 212 line 31 to T 213 line 30)
52Unlike the plaintiff, the Deputy Mayor had had prior dealings with the Campbells. She had provided Mr Campbell with "a reference that kept him out of gaol" (T 345) and her late husband had been a close friend of his. Mrs Campbell agreed that this was the case, although she added that her own association with the Deputy Mayor was limited to saying hello a few times (T 313, first hearing).
53However, the Deputy Mayor's presence on this occasion was not presented as being in order to assist the Campbells in having a yarn or a chat with the Mayor. She was coming to see them, as was the Mayor, about the letter the Campbells had written to the Ombudsman about their assistance to the Campbells being insufficient.
54Mr Connell submits that the Deputy Mayor was not cross-examined to the effect that the procedure was inappropriate in any way, or that it amounted to bullying (and, if so, that she was complicit). He goes on to add that this is not unnatural as such a contention was never part of the plaintiff's case (submissions, paragraph 2(g)). Both these statements are incorrect. Both in this hearing, and in the first hearing (at T 273 - 4), these matters were put, although the precise question in relation to the plaintiff's telephone call to the Campbells did not refer to it taking place in the car ,because the Deputy Mayor's evidence at the first hearing was that "he told me, the mayor said to me Muriel had asked him to wait until Gary came home from school" (T 273), not that he made the telephone call in the car in her presence.
55It was put to the Deputy Mayor that both she and the plaintiff were very upset about the letter (T 211) and that this was why they had gone to the Campbells' home at such short notice. The Deputy Mayor denied this, but agreed that it would be inappropriate to go to the Campbells' home without an appointment (T 219). She agreed that the plaintiff always spoke in a blunt manner, and that he "expressed his concern" (T 220) about what the complaint to the Ombudsman said about the meeting he and the Deputy Mayor had had with the Campbells. Mr Evatt put it to the Deputy Mayor that the plaintiff spoke in a loud, "bullying" voice (T 220), which the Deputy Mayor denied.
56Mr Connell submitted that the Deputy Mayor was a witness whose evidence should be given great weight, and that I should accept the her evidence, and that of Mr Manns, that the plaintiff did not speak in a menacing tone of voice (T 125, 210). This really is not the issue. I accept that the plaintiff spoke as the Deputy Mayor described, namely in a blunt manner. It was a very short phone call to someone he barely knew. "Menacing" is simply the wrong word to describe it. The question is whether his tone and what he was saying amounted to bullying or inappropriate language and/or conduct.
57The objective evidence shows the Deputy Mayor did have concerns about the meeting the plaintiff proposed to have with the Campbells. First, she said that she would go as well. Second, she invited not one but two persons who would be there, not to help the plaintiff, but to help the Campbells and be support persons for them, as they had been victims of a frightening incident very recently. Third, and most important, when she realised that the plaintiff had not even telephoned the Campbells to arrange a meeting, she told him to do so. I find the plaintiff's claim that he thought the Deputy Mayor had done this to be implausible, given his evidence about having Mr Campbell's telephone number on a piece of paper, the fact that he had already driven to Bermagui for such a meeting, and the fact that he was at the Deputy Mayor's home before the question of the format of the meeting (including the Deputy Mayor inviting another two persons) had crystallised.
58All of this evidence points to the Deputy Mayor endeavouring to placate an upset man, namely the plaintiff who was determined to see the Campbells that afternoon, while understanding that the Campbells might find an unexpected meeting with the two most senior local government officials in their home intimidating, particularly if there was no support person present. The Deputy Mayor's actions are more consistent with her having the belief that the Campbells would find the meeting intimidating, or feel bullied, unless they had some form of support present, as well as needing to be informed that the plaintiff was coming to see them.
59It is unfortunate that the plaintiff did not tell Mrs Campbell, when he rang, that arrangements had been made by the Deputy Mayor for both Mr Wells and Mr Mann to be present. In fact Mr Mann had told the Mayor he would only attend if the Campbells wished him to be there, yet that permission was never sought by the Mayor in the less than two minute telephone call he made to the plaintiff. It is also indicative of his state of mind, which was that he wanted to see the Campbells as soon as possible, and that other considerations (such as any need they may have for a support person) was not important.
60This brings me to a consideration of Mr Manns' evidence. Unfortunately it is of little assistance, as Mr Manns' memory of these events is now very poor.