She said that Mr Wood was "a blubbering mess", "crying and screaming into the phone", and that Mr Frost had told him that:
"….The money was insured so there are no worries about what Doug is doing."
75 Later in her affidavit she said that she had received a copy of "the cheques" and telephoned Mr Wood, asking him about the direction to pay "T D Watkins". She said that Mr Wood told her that:
"Frost told me that they were OK … McAndrew had Watkins do them that way to keep them from prying eyes … The cheques were all legal and above board."
76 She said that, on another occasion she had a conversation with Mr Wood in which she told him that she believed that Mr Robert Frost and the appellant were "involved in dishonest things and money laundering". She said that Mr Wood said to her:
"keep your mouth shut, sis."
77 In a paragraph of the affidavit that appears otherwise to be devoid of the slightest relevance, Ms Sansom deposed:
"Bob Frost told me that his wife didn't approve of gambling and he had to do it in private."
78 Ms Sansom, I have to observe, was a difficult witness, and one whose evidence does not immediately command acceptance. Her answers in cross-examination were frequently unresponsive; she was determined to put her position, regardless of the content of the question she was required to answer. She displayed real difficulty in focussing upon the subject matter of any question. Her evidence was confused and confusing.
79 Some flavour of her evidence might be obtained by extracting a couple of passages. On one occasion, the cross-examiner was seeking to draw attention to Mr Byrnes' file note of the telephone call in which Ms Sansom advised him of Mr Wood's communication (concerning his suspicions about Mr Watkins and the estate funds). That conversation had occurred on 31 May 2000, but Ms Sansom also appeared to suggest that she was aware of these allegations at the time of her mother's funeral, which took place in August 1999. Her answer is recorded in the transcript as follows:
"When my mother died, I had a phone call from a woman who said Kevin Byrnes and me, telling me things about Doug and she told me that Mum was upset the night before she died because Doug [as recorded] had told her that Doug was taking money and doing things for Bob Frost for renovations to their house that his wife didn't know".
80 In the same vein, she then said:
"We heard long before that [31 May 2000] when it, Gordon go on his holidays, you know, that when Gordon went on his holidays, he came back from his holidays, he said to the girl, 'I am getting too old to get this money, I think I will send you,' and she found out and said to him, 'I am doing this for Mr Watkins.' Why would a girl from the office do it, if it was not theirs?"
81 On more than one occasion, she answered questions by saying that she had received anonymous telephone calls or letters.
82 To my mind, Ms Sansom's credibility was not enhanced by the following. Cross-examining counsel was asking questions about her assertion that Mr Robert Frost told her that the appellant was "as honest as the day is long". Counsel suggested that, if he had said such a thing, Ms Sansom's response would or ought to have been to tell Mr Frost that the appellant was "not as honest as the day is long", because he had a criminal record for embezzling more than one million dollars from Fairfax (which dated back to 1983 and 1984). In response to that question, Ms Sansom claimed to have said precisely that. A little later, however, she said that she only told Mr Frost that the appellant had been in gaol.
83 Nothing of the sort appears in the affidavit. While the proposition contained in the question, and the assumption about what could reasonably have been expected of Ms Sansom, at the time, do not appeal to my sense of conventional behaviour, what is noteable about Ms Sansom's answers is her readiness to claim to have done what it was suggested could have been expected of her in response to what she attributed to Mr Frost, and her subsequent change of position.
84 It was established that there had been a number of instances of dishonesty in her past; she had been convicted of a series of offences of fraud on the Commonwealth, in respect of claims for fuel rebate involving more that $200,000, over a four year period (these she insisted on characterising as "tax offences" and, therefore, of no consequence); she had given false evidence in those court proceedings and the Family Provision Act proceedings (although in re-examination it was suggested that her dishonesty in that respect was by omission rather than commission); when interviewed in respect of the fuel rebate claims by an excise officer, she gave a different (false) account in which she blamed the appellant, and falsely claimed that he had received the benefits; and she had (probably many years previously), forged her husband's signature on a number of mortgage documents, in order to obtain funds for the appellant's benefit. (It may be inferred that this was in relation to the appellant's previous criminal changes, since she said it was for the purpose of bail and legal fees.)
85 Notwithstanding all of this, when it came to the fundamental or central theme of her evidence, Ms Sansom was unshaken and adamant that the conversations had been as deposed in her affidavit, that is, the conversation with Robert Frost at her mother's funeral, and the conversations with Mr Wood about the appellant's activities, and their legitimacy.
86 The point sought to be made by the Crown in cross-examination drew attention to what appears to be an underlying discrepancy in Ms Sansom's evidence; Ms Sansom claimed to have been told about the appellant's alleged defalcations by Mr Wood; by the independent evidence of Mr Byrnes, objectively corroborated by his file note, it could be seen that that conversation was reported to Mr Byrnes on 31 May 2000. That casts, in my opinion, very considerable doubt upon Ms Sansom's evidence about the conversations she said took place at her mother's funeral in August 1999. Of course, an allegation made by Mr Wood, to the effect that the appellant was withdrawing money from his mother's estate, could not, in logic, have taken place at that time.
87 The proposed evidence of Ms Sansom is said to go to the issue of the knowledge of company directors, or authorisation by them of the appellant's practice (acknowledged by him) of depositing funds of Tasman KB money into his own account; in terms of the elements of the offences charged, it is said to go to that of dishonesty (or, using the language of the statute under which the appellant was charged, intention to cheat and defraud).
88 The tender of Ms Sansom's evidence drew forth replies by others, all of whom had given evidence in the trial. These were Messrs. Byrnes, Frost and Wood. Additional background material was also provided in a number of affidavits sworn by Ms Carolyn Griffiths, a solicitor employed by the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions and Ms Nicola Velcic, the appellant's solicitor.
89 Put briefly, Mr Wood denied virtually all of the conversations attributed to him by Ms Sansom (except for the conversation in which he raised concerns that the appellant was withdrawing money from his mother's estate); Robert Frost denied he'd been the source of information attributed to Mr Wood.
90 Mr Frost also contradicted Ms Sansom in respect of minor details, which are otherwise of no moment. For example, Ms Sansom had claimed to have known Mr Frost since she was fifteen years of age, when both resided in a particular town. Mr Frost challenged the assertion that they had lived in the same town at the same time.
91 For myself, where there is any divergence between the evidence of Ms Sansom and that of Mr Frost, I unequivocally prefer that of Mr Frost.
I say that, however, subject to this qualification.
92 Ms Sansom had given an account, which I have extracted above, of a conversation with Mr Frost at Ms Sansom's mother's funeral. Of this event, Mr Frost said:
"On 11 August 1999 I attended the funeral of Thelma Watkins. That was the first date on which I ever spoke to Dorothy Sansom. As people were leaving the funeral, I saw Dorothy speaking to the Minister. I approached her and said, 'I'd like to offer my condolences'. Dorothy turned to me and said words to the effect of that I was helping Doug to rob her in the Family Law matter. She was so hysterical that I turned my back and walked away. The conversation set out in paragraph 12 of the affidavit of Dorothy Sansom did not take place."