So you understand that if you're a director of a trustee company, you have obligations. You're a lawyer, I don't need to - - -?---I do understand ... My father was the trust. It was his trust.
So it was what he wanted to do with the [Property] is what would prevail, if you met?---It was his trust. He was in charge.
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[Did you do what your] father told [you] during the period that he was alive ...?---Always.
Would that be because you agreed with what it was that he was doing because you were a director?---No, that's because he was my father.
So notwithstanding legal obligations imposed upon you, you would do what your father said, even if you disagreed?---Absolutely.
So would you know if the accounts from 2000 of the trust showed the trust owing you an amount of $140,000 by way of loan or not?---No, I had no input into what went into those tax returns. I never saw them. I never signed them.
If the company made distributions of rental income relating to the [Property] and your father chose to disregard your interest in calculating how those distributions were met, you didn't do anything about that either?---Distributions to whom?
I think in that era it was to your parents, fifty-fifty?---It was his trust. It was his trust account. He was in charge.
He was in charge, yes, but it's a trust, isn't it?---It's a family.
Yes, it's a family trust?---But it's a family, beyond that.
Yes?---It was a family.
Yes. And it's a family trust designed for the benefit of the family?---You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say but I agree with you, yes.
I guess what I'm going to is that the way that it was conducted was to benefit, as you saw it, the family?---Everyone was working towards the benefit of the family, that's right.
But your father was in charge?---Totally.
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And if those trust accounts included a loan account to you showing that the [Trust] owed you $140,000, you would accept that that's what the [Trust] owed you?---If that's what those documents said, that's what those documents said.
Yes. I take it you are not an expert accountant? --- Certainly not.
If that $140,000 was recorded as a loan owing to you in 2010, for example, and that amount was the only amount you had given to the [Trust], would you accept that the [Trust] owed you money for the money you had put in for the [Property]?---There is no reason why it should be put down as a loan because it was never a loan.
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I think you described the original arrangement whereby you put in the money of $140,000 as a family arrangement?---Yes.
I just wanted to explore a little what you meant by that. It was done for the benefit of the whole of the family?---It was done for the advancement of the family.
You weren't paying too much regard to the particular legal form of the arrangement?---Absolutely not.
It was assumed that everybody would benefit in due course?---As everybody who was working within my father's business and working without salary or wages, et cetera, were doing for many, many years.
And that could arise through salary, it could arise through - because you get paid something - it could arise through trust distributions, or something?---Sorry, go back a step.
You were going to obtain a benefit because - everyone in the family will benefit, was the proposition?---The whole idea was to advance the family by buying different types of property, rather than having residential property.
When you say 'advance the family', you mean increase the overall wealth?---Increase the overall asset wealth of the family.
And specific family members would benefit by taking distributions or income through whatever mechanism the investment had been made?---Not at the time. But my father was in control of this trust. No-one got a physical distribution, if I understand your question.
No, my question was very simple. You say everybody is meant to benefit, the family is meant to benefit?---In the long run, yes.
How?---In the long run.
When?---At some point in time we were all going to be getting distributions from the trust.
So you accept - the proposition is this: that a particular form of investment vehicle has been chosen, a family trust in respect of this particular property. Do you agree with that proposition?---Yes.
What I'm asking you is that over the years it was assumed by you in this family arrangement that the relevant family members would benefit because a distribution would be made through this particular legal structure in due course?---The assets would increase in value.
And they would derive income?---And they would derive income annually.
And that would be distributed to, when your parents were [alive], to whomever they chose. Is that right?---To themselves.
Well, to whoever they - they weren't the only - - -?---Well, yes. They dictated that.
Yes. Now, the [Trustee] borrowed the money to buy the [Property]?---Yes.
Did you contribute to the repayments of that mortgage?---No, the repayments were made by the rent and by my father's earnings in his business. I did not contribute to the repayments.
Your father's business wasn't conducted in the Vlahos Family Trust?---No, he lodged independent tax returns, but he himself had no independent and separate bank account or savings account. Everything went into Vlahos Pty Ltd, all his income.
So the income was directed to the company?---Everything went in there.
Were there other trusts?---Only one trust. [8]