Q. How did the rest of the group act towards him?
A. Well I of course went back to the table and Ross Tucker joined of course and I would think by then they knew he was denying it all and it sort of, yeah, I don't think everybody was quite convinced, 100 per cent convinced, but well, you are polite, as you are with the person you always have a drink with and, I mean you don't accuse somebody of something you don't know the full story about, so."
Later, he said that his wife and he agreed to accept Mr Tucker's denials and continued to support him.
164 Mr John Walpole who retired recently from the Australian Army with the rank of colonel, knew Mr Tucker during their military service. He described Mr Tucker as "a good leader - good leaders don't abuse or swear at soldiers". He said that his approach to female soldiers, who were a significant proportion of the soldiers in the Catering Corps, was to treat them the same as he treated male soldiers. He never observed him abusing females, or acting towards female soldiers in a sexist way. As to Mr Tucker's reputation prior to 1999, Mr Walpole said, "He was a well-thought of officer who worked hard and looked after his men and women, he looked after their welfare and their training. I would say that he was popular because he was easy to get along with, but also fair, firm and fair, and would also have got the job done and was very well thought of. He also was the first officer in the corps to be selected to attend command and staff college, which was a feather in his cap and it showed to the rest of the army just what a fine officer he was". He said that he had never heard him described as dishonourable and that his reputation was as someone who stuck to his word.
165 Mr Charlie Lynn, a member of the Legislative Council of NSW since October 1995, and previously from 1965 until 1986 a member of the Australian Army, said that, in the course of his army service, he met Mr Tucker about 1967 or 1968 and they attended Staff College together in 1981. Within army circles, Mr Lynn said Mr Tucker's reputation was very high and he was highly regarded and highly respected. He said that his reputation, in respect of trust and integrity was beyond question. Asked about the way Mr Tucker inter-reacted with soldiers, particularly with subordinates, Mr Lynn replied, "Roscoe is a natural leader and you know, yes, he is a natural leader. He is one of those blokes that if you went to war, you would want him in the platoon beside you". He said that he never observed him abusing or yelling or swearing at subordinates.
166 Mr Lynn said that in the Catering Corps there were a lot of female soldiers. Asked how Mr Tucker inter-acted with them, he replied, "Just normal. You know formal. No different to the males soldiers. I mean they were pretty conscious of that". Asked whether he ever observed Mr Tucker abusing or swearing at females soldiers, he replied, "No, no. It is not his character. Roscoe is known for his - he's got you know, humour and I, I would go so far as to say he was one of the characters in the army".
167 Mr Lynn said that Mr Tucker's name is often mentioned, from time to time, in parliamentary and political circumstances as a person with conservative views in the Byron Council Area. Asked as to Mr Tucker's reputation in those circles, he replied, "Well, it is pretty much the same as it was in the army. It is beyond question. People who have spoken to me have the highest regard, the highest respect for him.
168 Finally, in Mr Tucker's case, I make reference to the evidence of Mr Maxwell Eastcott- Layton. Mr Eastcott-Layton was general manager of Byron Council in the period from 1993 until 1996, during which time he had, what appears to have been, a close association with Mr Tucker. He said he had the opportunity to observe Mr Tucker's inter-reaction with employees and other staff of the council, as to which he said, "He was a fair but fairly demanding person, demanding in the sense that he expected a certain quality of work from the staff, but he was certainly a fair person and honest in his dealings with the staff. In relation to Mr Tucker's reputation, Mr Eastcott-Layton said that he had a reputation for being fair; for being honest; for being very community minded; and for being a good representative for the community of representative of Byron. In wider circles in which Mr Eastcott-Layton moved, he said, "Mr Tucker was certainly held in high regard as an elected councillor. He was seen to be someone who is honest, who was approachable, and certainly a hard worker on behalf of the constituents.
169 Although Mr Eastcott-Layton was not living in the Byron area when the subject article was published, he was told about it and subsequently spoke to Mr Tucker about it by telephone. He said Mr Tucker said words to the effect, "I just don't know where they would have got this information from or why they would print it".
CASE FOR THE DEFENDANTS:
170 Echo, in support of its case, called oral evidence from Ms Michelle Campbell, Ms Cheryl Lindsay, Ms Melissa Begg and Ms Leanne Potts. No oral evidence was called by Mr Buck$.
171 Ms Campbell, a solicitor, conducted the prosecution of Comptran in 1999, before the Chief Industrial Magistrate. She said that Ms Potts testified to the effect that, from the outset, she was employed on a full-time basis.
172 Ms Cheryl Lindsay worked for the Star, first as part-time sales representative, and then as advertising manager. During the course of examination in chief, Mr Connell sought to have her allocate or apportion responsibility as between herself and other staff members, including Ms Potts, for advertisements which appeared in a bundle of issues of the Star shown to her. Although Ms Lindsay attempted to do so, it became, in my opinion, a very inconclusive exercise, meaning by that no criticism of Ms Lindsay. Frequently, however, as it seemed to me, more than one staff member was shown to be involved, depending, in particular, upon whether the advertisement related to a regular advertiser or not. In the result, upon this issue, I did not find Ms Lindsay's evidence to be of much assistance. In any event, it was admitted by Mr Hale that Ms Potts was an effective sales person and that was not at issue in the case.
173 Although she worked only part-time, Ms Lindsay said that she attended the office most days and that, according to her observation, Ms Potts also attended the office most days. She said that she also regularly telephoned Ms Potts when they were not together in the office to discuss work related matters. Ms Lindsay testified that, on a few occasions, she had seen Mr Tucker in apparently angry conversation with Ms Potts, but she did not actually hear any words used. One of those occasions was after the sales representatives meeting when the subject of payment by commission was suggested. She said that she could also recall Mr Tucker saying on one occasion, "What we need around here is more pants than skirts", but she could not recall his demeanour when he said this.
174 On 28 November 1997, Ms Lindsay said that she was asked to go to Mr Ross' house and when she arrived, Mr Ross told her that Ms Potts would no longer be working for the newspaper. According to Ms Lindsay, Ms Potts arrived at about the time Mr Ross was telling her this and seemed distressed and upset. She said Mr Ross said to Ms Potts, "There is nothing I can do. It's over". The response of Ms Potts was to say that she wanted her job back, to which Mr Ross replied that it would not be possible and that "Mr Tucker would not bend on the issue".
175 She said that Mr Tucker himself then arrived and she left at the same time. A short time later, however, Ms Lindsay said that she met Ms Potts who was crying and shaking and very distressed. According to Ms Lindsay, Ms Potts told her that Mr Tucker had said to her, "I don't care about you or your f…… kids", or words to that effect.
176 In cross-examination by Mr Hale, Ms Lindsay said that she had not been contacted about giving evidence in the case until a matter of days before the hearing and that she had had no previous occasion to contemplate the events of 1997 about which she testified. She agreed that with the passage of time her recollection may not have been as good as it would have been at an earlier time.
177 Ms Begg, said that she could recall being in a room at the courthouse, allocated by the Chamber Magistrate, with Mr Ross and discussing proposals for the payment of the judgment debt by instalments. She also examined documents of Comptran produced by Mr Ross.
178 Ms Begg said that the following day she received instructions, by telephone, from Ms Potts that she would take an upfront payment of $4,000 in full satisfaction of the judgment debt and she later conveyed an offer in those terms to Mr Ross, by telephone. According to Ms Potts, Mr Ross telephoned her the following day and after verifying that the offer to take $4,000 included the sum of $1,000 for out of pocket expenses, which had been discussed previously, said that the offer to accept $4,000 up front in satisfaction of the judgment debt was accepted. She said that she thereupon conveyed the acceptance to Ms Potts and set about drafting a document to give effect to the agreement. This document was approved by Ms Potts and Ms Begg was instructed to make it available to Mr Ross, which she did, leaving it in her office for him to collect.
179 Asked what happened next, she said, "There was - became apparent in communication that there was a breakdown in negotiations once the draft document - draft agreement was picked up". She said she reached this conclusion in light of a telephone conversation with Mr Ross, but could not recall precisely what he said to her. She said she responded to Mr Ross with words to the effect that she thought the terms of the agreement reached were clear and she could not understand any misunderstanding. Following this telephone conversation, she said that she decided to put something in writing to record what had occurred from her client's point of view and thereupon drafted and sent the letter dated 30 December 1999, quoted above at paragraph 46.
180 It appears from Ms Begg's evidence that she next spoke to Mr Ross on 7 December. She said it was an uncomfortable conversation for her because she was accused of leaking information from the public examination on 23 November. Towards the end of the conversation however, they discussed the furtherance of negotiations, during which, as it seems, Mr Ross offered, on behalf of the company, to pay a total of $4,000 by instalments of $1,000 up front and $500 a month thereafter. She, apparently, succeeded in raising the initial payment part of the offer to $1,500. She conveyed the offer to Ms Potts in a telephone conversation at 5pm on 7 December. Subsequently, she received a letter from Mr Ross dated 10 December, omitting formal parts, as follows:
"The offer by Ms Potts to reduce our debt to her to a once only and final payment of $4,0,00 is a generous offer and we are grateful to her for trying to clear this matter.
As your are aware from the examination of our finances it is not possible for us to raise $4,000 in a lump sum, we are however committed to finalizing this matter as soon as possible.
The Saturday Star is closed as a tabloid but is being circulated as a newsletter type production which is self funded but will not produce extra funds for the Saturday Star.
The Saturday Star does however have funds in bad debt accounts of which I envisage will be collected over a six month period.
While we cannot raise the $4,000 in a lump sum we can offer Ms Potts $1,500 immediately with payments of $500 per month for five months payable on the 10th of consecutive months beginning 10th January 2000.
Once again we are committed to finalizing this matter and an early response to this offer would be appreciated."
181 Ms Begg then wrote to Comptran on 16 December, again omitting formal parts, as follows:
"I refer to your letter of 10 December 1999 and to the negotiations generally that have taken place in respect of this matter and advise that my client is willing to settle her claim on either one or other of the following bases;
1. She will accept a lump sum payment in the sum of $4,000 to be paid within seven (7) days, in full and final satisfaction of the judgment; or
2. She will require the full amount of the judgment, being $7,348.59 as at today's date, to be paid by way of instalments as follows:
(a) An initial lump sum of $1,500 to be paid within seven (7) days.
(b) Payments of $500 per month there after until the full amount to the judgment have been paid.
I look forward to hearing from you in respect of the above."
182 Mr Ross replied by letter of 21 December 1999, omitting formal parts:
"We refer to your letter of 16 December and the request therein by Ms Potts to settle this matter.
We have considered further our current financial situation and have been given guarantees by a number of our debtors that they will finalise their account by the end of this month. That is by the end of December 1999.
We therefore give an undertaking to you that we will forward a cheque to the value of $4,000 to your office by 22 January 2000. This will occur irrespective of whether our debtors honour their guarantees.
We ask that you put this to Ms Potts with our regret that this matter cannot be finalised earlier."
183 Subsequently a formal agreement was signed whereby Ms Potts agreed to accept $4,000 in satisfaction of the judgment debt due to her, and $4,000 was in fact paid. In the meantime, as indicated earlier, Ms Begg had issued a writ of execution and the Sheriff had seized some furniture etc. in the office of the Star.
184 In cross-examination Mr Hale put to Ms Begg that she would not, in her letter of 30 November 1999, knowingly put forward a false version of events. She replied that it was a "sanitised" version and that there were nuances which were not communicated in the letter.
185 Ms Begg was cross-examined at some length about the negotiations she conducted in the period up to 30 November 1999. The thrust of the cross-examination, as I understand it, was to establish that her letter of 30 November 1999 correctly recorded what had occurred. She, on the other hand, sought to maintain her understanding that an agreement had been reached, and was accurately reflected in the draft agreement.
186 I now turn to make reference to the evidence of the final witness in Echo's case, Ms Leanne Potts. Prior to her employment by Comptran in July 1997, she had experience of working for newspapers at Port Macquarie, Armidale and Caboolture. She claims that her first contact with anyone at the Star was by telephone with Ms Lindsay. This seems inconsistent with the fact that she sent the letter quoted in paragraph 23, referring to a conversation with Mr Tucker. However, her evidence was that she was then asked to an interview which was actually conducted by Ms Lindsay, although in the presence of Mr Tucker, who said very little. She said that Ms Lindsay told her a full-time position was available, and that she agreed to work for the first two weeks on commission only, "to prove to Cheryl and to Ross Tucker that I could do the job". She said she started about 29 July 1997 and thereafter worked Monday to Friday from 8.30am to 5 or 6pm, or sometimes later particularly on Wednesdays and Thursdays when, if necessary she worked to 8pm or 9pm.
187 Towards the end of the first week of her employment, she said that she had a conversation with Mr Ross, which he initiated, during which, "He said that I did a very good job on the paper with the classifieds. He said he would love to be paying me more, and he said by the commission that was structured, he had actually given me extra in my pay". She said that the following week she had a further conversation about her remuneration but this time with Cheryl Lindsay. She said that she told Ms Lindsay that she would continue to work on commission for the rest of the week but wanted a salary like everyone else in the company after her commission period finished. She said that Ms Lindsay replied that she would see Mr Tucker and Mr Ross about it and added that she was only working for $200 per week and that she had signed an agreement to do so. Ms Potts said she told her that she was not prepared to work for such a sum. None of that conversation was incidentally put to Ms Lindsay.
188 Subsequently, she said she had a conversation with Mr Ross - "I said to Harold that I won't continue working, that I won't continue working for commission and I will not continue, and I would definitely not work for $200 a week. He said the paper was struggling, and most of the other employees were working for that, I just said no, I couldn't, I wasn't going to do that".
189 In the third week of her employment, she said that Mr Tucker and Mr Ross spoke to her, early on a Wednesday evening. Mr Tucker said, "You're doing a really great job. Just keep your hard toe boots on and don't worry about the other employees in the office". She said that after the third week when she received $250, she spoke to Ms Lindsay and Mr Ross and asked why it was only $250 - "They just told me that the paper wasn't making a lot of money and a lot of people were working on that account". Again, this conversation was not put to Ms Lindsay, nor was any conversation concerning the remuneration of Ms Potts.
190 According to Ms Potts, she continued to complain about the level of her salary to Ms Lindsay and to Mr Ross. She said that her complaint to Ms Lindsay was that she had been told that she was going to get a proper wage and Ms Lindsay replied, "Look this is the best I can do, I will go and see Ross Tucker, I will go and see Harold Ross about it for you". Later she said that Mr Ross and Mr Tucker offered to pay her $300 per week, to which she responded, "I am still really not happy with that". She said that Mr Ross, "repeated quite a lot to me that he wasn't taking wages, the paper was doing very poorly".
191 She then gave evidence about the sales staff meeting at which it was suggested that all sales staff be paid only on commission. Her version of what followed as recorded in the transcript was:
"A. And I said, "That doesn't work, if the sales staff go on commission, why can't the whole lot of the staff, like the editorial staff, because I don't feel that is fair", and Ross Tucker said that I was being ridiculous, "You can't work out a commission basis on editorial staff", and I just said, "I don't think it is ridiculous that you are prepared to put - Ross Tucker, you are prepared to put all of us on commission - so you just can't do that", and Ross Tucker got quite enraged with the comment I made that "You just can't do it".