the appellant's evidence before the federal magistrate
50 Something of the essence of the appellant's claims before Lucev FM has been set out above by reference to the affidavit made 8 May 2008. However, at the hearing the appellant gave viva voce evidence and his affidavit of 8 May 2008 was only later adduced into evidence in the course of cross‑examination.
51 The appellant stated in oral evidence that:
· Despite earlier statements to the contrary, including in his affidavit made 3 May 2006, he had never been a Falun Gong practitioner in China.
· Rather he had only conveyed Falun Gong practitioners to an event in Beijing.
· As a result, the company for which he worked suspended him for a month.
· He was suspected of being a Falun Gong practitioner or sympathiser.
· In late 1999 he had been arrested and held by the police but was released when his wife paid a bribe. During that time, he was kept in solitary confinement and interrogated and cuffed and kicked.
· He then came to the view that he was under constant surveillance.
· Since coming to Australia he has practised Falun Gong.
· He is not familiar with the address of 422 Pitt Street Sydney and on the basis of inquiries made of the City of Sydney, believes that the two addresses given as 422 Pitt Street do not exist in the City's database, although there is a building known as 420‑426 Pitt Street, Haymarket, which was recently converted to strata title units. The highest number presently shows Unit 134. He has seen a photograph of the building and it is not a building in which he has ever stayed.
· The accommodation that he did stay in when arrived in Sydney was arranged through his friend, Mr Z. It was a rundown flat in a three storey building. He lived alone there except for two or three days "when Mr Lu stayed there". He then moved to Auburn and later to Cabramatta before coming to Perth.
· Mr Z helped him obtain a mobile phone on the day he arrived at the airport in Sydney and his sister pays the phone bill.
· If he had been told about the RRT hearing in December 2004, he would have attended it and he would have told the truth according to what is set out in this affidavit.
52 The appellant made a further affidavit on 29 May 2008, which he relied on, in which he made the following points:
· That when he first met Mr Lu he received from him a business card, similar to one that he produces to the Court. He lost that card.
· The card produced "was obtained from Mr Lu's office by a friend in Sydney and forwarded to me. It is slightly different from the first card. I recall that word "Manager" did not appear on the first card".
· There is a Lu Songtao who is a registered migration agent. He was not registered until 3 May 2005.
· The appellant confirmed signing an application by an individual for fee exemption or waiver in respect of fees payable in the Federal Magistrates Court and identified his signature. The date of the document is 20 January 2005. He says that he paid $1000 but did not appreciate that the Court fees had been waived. If he had been aware of that he would not have paid the $1000.
53 Prior to giving his evidence, the appellant had been made aware of the contents of the affidavit of Songtao Lu, made 28 May 2008, in which he stated as follows:
· He is a registered migration agent.
· He was admitted to his registration on 3 May 2005.
· He had read the affidavits of the appellant, made 3 May 2006 and 8 May 2008.
· The appellant was not his client and was not a person to whom he provided immigration assistance.
· He did not act for or advise the appellant in respect of an application for a protection visa or a subsequent appeal in the RRT.
· He did not prepare any statement or any claims made to the Minister with respect to any application made by the appellant.
· He had not met the appellant and did not assist him to apply for a protection visa.
· He did not reside with the appellant at the address nominated in his affidavit.
· He did not act for, nor did he assist, the appellant in respect of the making of any application to the Minister.
· He did not prepare any document annexed to the application.
· He did not prepare any receipt documents nor did he receive any monies as suggested by those receipts.
54 In response to the content of Mr Lu's affidavit, the appellant said in evidence:
· He had only learnt two days previously that Mr Lu says he has never met the appellant.
· That he had met Mr Lu in the past, eight or nine times, four of these being in Mr Lu's office.
· That he took "the escalator into the - to the third floor". This answer was given to a question from counsel for the appellant in these terms:
So could you describe to his Honour how you get to Mr Lu's office in Chinatown. Before you do that, can you imagine that you are standing in front of the building. Are you describing an escalator?
· He recalled that the first office before you came to Mr Lu's was a doctor's surgery.
· The door was made of glass and the side of the wall was made of glass. There was a pamphlet or advertisement sticker on the wall. There was a small room inside with a fax machine.
· He went to appointments when he "was called. I was notified by telephone". Mr Lu notified him by telephone.
· That he originally received the business card from Mr Lu when he arrived in 2004. However he had lost the card when shifting around. "When I moved to Perth, I had been given another card by my friend, which my friend took from Mr Lu's office".
· He had met Mr Lu outside the office in Chinatown on three occasions. He had also met him "twice in my place". That is to say, where he then stayed.
· In answer to a question concerning the circumstances that Mr Lu came to the house that the appellant was staying at, the appellant answered: "In the evening", "one or two hours". This was at the house where the appellant stayed for about two weeks when he first arrived in Australia.
· Mr Lu has an accent of South China, they spoke in Mandarin. Mr Lu was about the same height as Dr Cameron, his counsel, and his age would have been about 35 or 36. For the record, Dr Cameron noted his height was 5ft 10, 5ft 11. Mr Lu was of a "big, solid build. He has normal hair".
55 In cross‑examination of the appellant, the first topic covered was the appellant's evidence concerning Mr Lu "staying" at the place he lived when he first arrived in Australia. The appellant made it clear that he was saying that Mr Lu "came twice, but he didn't live there". He was then shown the affidavit he had made on 8 May 2008. He was then taken to [9], in which had stated:
That was an old run down flat in a three storey building. I paid $110 per week to Mr Z … I lived alone in the house except for two to three days when Mr Lu stayed there.
He was asked whether he agreed that "Mr Lu stayed there". Through the interpreter the appellant said:
Sorry, I have to clarify. Okay. After he talked to me in an evening, I went back to my room and I am not sure if he stayed in the other room or he has left.
He then confirmed that he did not see Mr Lu out. He was asked what made him think that Mr Lu "stayed". He answered that:
Okay, I didn't see the moment that he went out of the flat.
56 The following exchange then occurred between counsel for the Minister and the appellant:
MS NEEDHAM: Well, which is it, [ ... ]? Did he only stay one to two hours or did he stay longer?
THE INTERPRETER: Do you mean in my bedroom?
MS NEEDHAM: I mean at the flat.
THE INTERPRETER: He stayed in my bedroom for one or two hours and then he went to the other room but I don't know how long he has stayed in that room.
MS NEEDHAM: Okay. Are you saying the flat was a two-bedroom flat?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
MS NEEDHAM: Now, when he came to the flat - I withdraw that, your Honour. When you were living in that flat, other than Mr Lu, did anybody else stay there?
THE INTERPRETER: No.
MS NEEDHAM: Then what made you think Mr Lu stayed?
THE INTERPRETER: I don't know what happened after I moved out in two weeks.
MS NEEDHAM: In the two weeks that you were there, [ ... ], that's what I'm asking about. Why did you not show Mr Lu out?
THE INTERPRETER: He went to his room. I don't know how long he has stayed in that room.
MS NEEDHAM: Okay. You say it was his room. What makes you think it was his room?
THE INTERPRETER: I don't know. I have just arrived from China.
MS NEEDHAM: Yes, [ ... ]. You said that the other bedroom was Mr Lu's room. What made you think that that room was Mr Lu's room?
THE INTERPRETER: I am not sure whether he has paid or not.
MS NEEDHAM: No. I'm not asking you whether he paid. I'm asking you what - you've said that that room was Mr Lu's room. What was it that happened that made you think that it was Mr Lu's room?
THE INTERPRETER: What I paid is for my room only.
HIS HONOUR: Madam interpreter, can you ask him whether Mr Lu ate his meals there? Did he eat breakfast there to start with?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, yes.
HIS HONOUR: Did he eat his lunch there, his midday meal?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
HIS HONOUR: Or his evening meal?
THE INTERPRETER: Sometimes I leave the lunch.
HIS HONOUR: Yes, I'm talking about Mr Lu, did Mr Lu eat his breakfast.
THE INTERPRETER: Sorry, I missed - okay, I will ask again.
HIS HONOUR: Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: No, no, he doesn't have his breakfast there, I couldn't see him in the morning.
HIS HONOUR: Did he sleep there?
THE INTERPRETER: I'm not sure what time he has left so I'm not sure whether he has slept there.
MS NEEDHAM: Did he eat dinner there?
THE INTERPRETER: No.
MS NEEDHAM: Did you go into the other room, the other bedroom?
THE INTERPRETER: When he left he would have the room locked.
MS NEEDHAM: There was a lock on the door to the other bedroom?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
MS NEEDHAM: Did you ever see Mr Lu unlock that room?
THE INTERPRETER: When he came, he has to open that door.
MS NEEDHAM: [ ... ], I need to clarify that, when he came to the flat he had to open that door. Are you talking about the front door to the flat or the door to the bedroom?
THE INTERPRETER: Bedroom.
MS NEEDHAM: The bedroom, and you saw him unlock that?
THE INTERPRETER: There is a padlock and he has to use the key to open that, to unlock.
MS NEEDHAM: Did you see Mr Lu unlock that padlock?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
MS NEEDHAM: Did you ever go into that room?
THE INTERPRETER: No.
MS NEEDHAM: So if I have this right, you say Mr Lu came to the flat and talked to you on each occasion in your bedroom for one to two hours. You saw him unlock the padlock to the other bedroom but you didn't see him leave.
THE INTERPRETER: Slightly different order. When he came he would unlock his room because there is no lounge room in this flat, it is very simple, and then he will go to my room, and after talking, he will go to that room.
MS NEEDHAM: Right. You see, [ ... ], what I'm going to be suggesting to the court is that your evidence has changed. That you had previously said in the affidavit that Mr Lu stayed in the flat with you, that you've then told Mr Cameron that he stayed no longer than one to two hours, and that you've now changed that back again.
DR CAMERON: Well
HIS HONOUR: Just wait for a moment, madam interpreter. Yes, Dr Cameron?
DR CAMERON: To be entirely fair to [ ... ], can we go back to what is in the affidavit. It says:
I lived alone in the house except for two to three days when Mr Lu stayed there.
Much turns on the meaning of "stayed" and perhaps that was sloppy drafting on my part. I understood by "stayed", stayed overnight and it may well be that [ ... ] meant spent time there. Now, are there different words in Mandarin for "spending time" and "staying overnight?"
HIS HONOUR: I don't know the answer to the last question, Dr Cameron. Yes, Ms Needham?
MS NEEDHAM: That might be something for re-examination, your Honour. That is the case, isn't it, [ ... ], that you've changed what you said?
THE INTERPRETER: No, no, I didn't.
MS NEEDHAM: So how do you, [ ... ], explain the difference between your affidavit saying that Mr Lu stayed there and your evidence to Mr Cameron that he only stayed for one to two hours?
THE INTERPRETER: He stayed in my room for one or two hours and then he went to the other room. I'm not sure he stayed overnight or he left soon after because in the morning or in the evening he didn't come to say, "Hi, I'm leaving, bye-bye." He didn't say that at all.
57 Certainly the evidence in cross‑examination given by the appellant suggests that Mr Lu had access to another room in the apartment, although plainly from what he said at the end of the passage quoted, he was not suggesting that Mr Lu was living in the accommodation.
58 The next topic covered in cross‑examination was the evidence the appellant gave about the offices at which he said he had visited Mr Lu at the request of Mr Lu. The appellant accepted that there are a number of migration agent offices in the area of Sydney he was describing. He was certain though that the one that he had described was the one on the card of Mr Lu and that he had attended those offices in September 2004 and on four occasions in all. Additionally, he had met Mr Lu on two occasions at his apartment. He had also met him on three other occasions in Chinatown at a time when he was distributing information about Falun Gong. Those other occasions were not arranged meetings. The appellant also confirmed that he said there was an occasion when he went to the Department of Immigration with Mr Lu when he was applying for a bridging visa.
59 The appellant agreed that he had met a number of other people in Sydney, in the Chinese community, who like him were trying to immigrate to Australia. In the course of dealing with this evidence the appellant said that the same day when he arrived in Sydney, his friends took him out in the airport and the same day took him to Mr Lu's office.
60 He said that the business card that he had later obtained, following losing the one he had by the time he went to Perth was obtained by a Mr K, who at that stage was an Australian citizen. He asked Mr K to obtain that card for him.
61 Counsel for the Minister made it clear to the appellant that she would be suggesting to the Court that the appellant had obtained a description of Mr Lu's office from other people and that he had no knowledge of that place himself. In response to a direct question to that effect, the appellant stated:
I actually been there, I took a train from Auburn to Central Station and then I walked to Dixon Street. I went up to the lift to the third floor and then went - arrived at his office.
The appellant confirmed that he went to live in Auburn after his initial arrival, although he could not remember the exact date, but about four months after his arrival a friend found him a job in Cabramatta after that and that is why he then moved to Cabramatta.
62 The Federal Magistrate at that point asked a further question about Mr Lu's office "in Dixon Street". The appellant through the interpreter responded:
No, it's in China Town. He's not quite sure about Dixon, the spelling of the Dixon Street, but he went - when he go to his office he passed Dixon Street.
63 In re‑examination, counsel for the appellant asked him, concerning the apartment that Mr Z had initially provided for him, whether there was some kind of association between Mr Z and Mr Lu. The appellant said that there was but he was not sure whether Mr Z owned the flat. He confirmed that he paid rent to Mr Z and had access to one of the bedrooms only. Another room was locked.
64 In relation to that part of his earlier affidavit where he had stated that "Mr Lu stayed there" on two to three days, counsel asked him whether by "stayed" he meant "stayed overnight" or "spent time there". The appellant responded:
I am not sure what time in the - night he left.
That was obviously a non‑responsive answer and counsel then asked him whether there are different words in Mandarin for "stayed for a long period" and "stayed for a short period", to which the appellant responded:
When we say 'stayed' that is stay could be long, could be short. But if you particular like to say 'stay overnight' you have to say [foreign language] overnight.
The appellant then clarified that in his affidavit he was saying that:
He stayed in my room for a short period and then he went to the other room and I am not sure whether he has stayed overnight or not because when I get up in the morning I can see the locker there it is locked.
When further pressed about expressions in Mandarin, the appellant said that when he says "stay" in Chinese, it is usually a short period.
65 In relation to the topic of the appellant seeing Mr Lu on other occasions in Chinatown outside his office, the appellant indicated that he did speak with Mr Lu on one occasion. The first time Mr Lu had said "Oh I didn't realise you are a Falun Gong member". On the other occasions he saw him in Chinatown he did not talk to him.
66 As to the business card that he had been provided with recently, the appellant said that it was different in that the one he had before was a "vertical one and this means the long one".