10 Mr Slaveski was self represented in the proceedings before Hargrave J on 21 June 2006.[13] It is unlikely that Mr Slaveski was having a conference with Mr Gipp about the Economakis matter before 21 June 2006: on 14 June Mr Kotsifas formally notified the court that his firm did not act for Mr Slaveski and he did not brief Mr Gipp in the matter. Later in June 2006 Mr Kotsifas had instructed Mr Hay in the Commonwealth Bank matter. It is unlikely, therefore, that the advice of Mr Gipp was being sought on that matter at about that time. It is more likely, however, as is the evidence of Mr Kotsifas and of Mr Gipp, that the advice of Mr Gipp was sought informally about an appeal from VCAT and that the occasion of that advice occurred casually, and briefly, on 29 June 2006 at the conclusion of the conference with Mr Hay. The chambers of Mr Hay and those of Mr Gipp were at the time on the same floor. The evidence of Mr Gipp is that the only advice sought from him, and given by him, was about whether Mr Slaveski could lodge an appeal from a decision of VCAT. The evidence both of Mr Kotsifas and of Mr Gipp is that the request occurred casually, there was no brief, documents had not been supplied, the entire meeting took a short period of time and none of the details of the underlying dispute were considered. Mr Kotsifas said that the conference did not last more than 5-10 minutes. Mr Gipp said in his affidavit that the meeting only took a few minutes and in cross examination accepted that it might possibly have lasted between 10 and 15 minutes. Given the nature of the occasion and the paucity of the briefing, it is more probable that the occasion was as they say rather than as Mr Slaveski contended.