HIS HONOUR: If these accounts are prepared I would expect to find that we will have to order the joinder of other parties to make sure that everyone is bound by them but I am not going to do that for the moment because if your client has in fact got an answer to what I am putting, I am not going to put anyone to the expense of that. But, as I see it, the formal orders that should be made is to direct the taking of accounts. Firstly, direct that the plaintiff serve on the defendants the accounts on which it relies. Well, we know that has already been done, that the defendant within so many days serve on the plaintiff an amended set of accounts showing what it claims to be the true position. That would be the convenient way of doing it in this case. If you had a different sort of dispute, I mean let's say a building dispute or something like that, then it would be a different sort of way of proceeding. You would have a schedule, you know a scot-type schedule in which individual amounts would be disputed. We know here it is not the individual amounts that have been disputed, it is the way in which they have been shuffled around.
MR MANETTA: Can I just say this: we would object to any course of the joinder of Blackcroft or Carprop.
HIS HONOUR: Why?
MR MANETTA: Because it can be of no interest or comfort to the plaintiffs at the end of the day whether or not we meet our obligations to third parties. Any more than it can be of interest to Mr Scott whether Mr Carabelas pays his water bills or pays his council fees or anything else.
HIS HONOUR: It is of interest to the plaintiff to know whether the accounts that it is dealing with are the proper accounts. I mean, there is a public interest in establishing what are the proper accounts of this company. I wouldn't allow the defendants to escape, as it were, in that way.
MR MANETTA: What we can say on the evidence, what's clear as a bell on the evidence is that no set of accounts will ever show that Mr Carabelas owes Angas Law Services money. There have never been accounts to that effect. So,.
HIS HONOUR: No, I think that is correct. From what I have seen, that is correct.
MR MANETTA: So the most my learned friend can say is look at these accounts, Mr Carabelas owed third-parties a lot of money and that is why we say these proceedings are misconceived.
HIS HONOUR: Mr Wilkinson says these accounts show that his client is entitled to claim for a preference. Now the only way that you're going to, as I see it, meet that, is to put forward another set of accounts which I am going to be asked as representing the true position. But in the course of doing that you're going to, I suspect, expose yourself to a liability to other liquidators.
MR MANETTA: Well, that is as may be and that's what we say is a matter for another day. As it happens another liquidator of Blackcroft hasn't made demand of us.
HIS HONOUR: I suppose that's because the liquidator of Blackcroft has accepted the accuracy of these accounts,
MR MANETTA: Yes, quite possibly.
HIS HONOUR: The court can't allow that. I mean, we have got, no doubt, creditors standing behind all this. They would tear their hair out if they saw a debtor being able to avoid obligations in that way."