"The evidence of Senior Constable Chapman was given first. He said that [he and Senior Constable Josephs] arrived at the scene at 11.09 on the night and observed people out the front, he estimated it was 70 to 80, and...Senior Constable Josephs, got out of the car and told him, Chapman, to call for back-up. And he, Chapman, was getting out of the passenger seat of the police car, he had a conversation with the accused, who had walked over to him, with blood on face, significant blood on his mouth. The accused was aggressive. He was very aggressive in body language and words. Then, according to Senior Constable Chapman, things go berserk. It was unlike anything he had seen before. Bottles were being thrown, windows being smashed.
Then he saw [Senior Constable Josephs] run down the road, easterly...chasing someone and about 20 people chased Constable Josephs, and he heard a threat to kill Josephs. He runs after Senior Constable Josephs to help him, and he is himself chased by a second wave of youths.
Once he catches up to Senior Constable Josephs, by which stage Josephs had already arrested the youth he had been chasing, and this is all at about 100 metres from the car, on Chapman's estimate, they were both of them, both of the police encircled by about 20 intoxicated aggressive people.
Some had cans and bottles and were threatening to use them against the police in a violent manner. Chapman said that [Senior Constable Josephs] had told him to call in with Code 9, which was the most serious recognition to give over the air. He said the encircling group was utterly aggressive, comments about, 'Try and hit us', egging the police on as if to hit the people in the crowd.
Several in that group were shaping up with raised fists. Others had stubbies, glasses or cans. The accused was in that group, according to Chapman. Chapman said he felt pure fear. He was pushed or hit from behind, but he's not sure by whom. He couldn't see who it was behind.
He later said he subsequently found blood on the back of his shirt but couldn't possibly say from whom it came. He said [Senior Constable Josephs] was punched and let go of his grip on the arrested man, who broke free and ran. He, Chapman, pointed his mag lite torch at people and yelled for them to get back.
He and Josephs then got away from the group and go back towards the police car. Then Josephs started chasing, apparently having again spotted the man who'd escaped, the getaway person, running east again. That person hadn't come back as far as the car, but had been apparently, according to Chapman, in a garden or yard.
Anyway Josephs chased him again and Chapman says he caught him in a headlock. The fellow ran out towards him and he caught the running man in a headlock and then Josephs caught up and grabs his arms and they have him apprehended again. As they do this, which he estimated this part happened about 50 meters east of the party, they were again surrounded by the crowd, or by a crowd.
It was not all 80 of the people he'd seen out the front, it was a core group. He said the accused was standing around. He was still up there. Again the police, according to Chapman, are manhandled and shoved and pushed from the group closing very close in on them, and the grip is broken on the arrested man who runs away again.
Chapman says he saw someone raising a full white can at this stage, and he expected to be king hit and he braced for the hit and therefore didn't exactly see where the man went who had run away and when he looks up again it looks like they were trying to steal from the police car.
The police run towards the police car and chase the man who they saw was in the car and got out ahead of them and they reach him at the next street, which is about 50 metres in the other direction from the car. He says that Josephs takes this man's name. Then he hears banging and turns and sees someone kicking the panels on the police car and a mob yelling.
When he, Chapman, gets back to the car, there are several youths yelling in his face very aggressively. One youth he had sprayed earlier, he says shaped up to him at this stage, asking why he didn't want a fist fight instead of spraying him, so Chapman sprayed him again.
Chapman says his next sight or contact with the accused man was after other police had arrived. You heard one car with Pregnall arrived first and then a number of other cars. After the cavalry, as he called it, had arrived and the situation [was] being calmed down, the accused had stayed around.
Chapman spoke with him again. The accused approached police again. Chapman says he and other police - he used the expression 'we'. It's not for me to interpret what's meant by that when I said he and other police. He used the expression, 'we tried to get him to go in the ambulance, but he said something like 'it costs too fucking much' and wouldn't go. Chapman said the accused man here was still very aggressive and abusive.
He was cross-examined and on cross-examination was taken again over various aspects of that evidence of course. On cross-examination he agreed that on the first approach, that's of the accused, to him, Chapman, the accused was very agitated.
Chapman didn't recall precisely what was said, but he did say that no physical violence was threatened to him or to the other policeman. He agreed that obviously the accused's mouth was injured. There was a teeth injury, but he couldn't see exactly the extent of it.
In his written statement afterwards he'd not noted the words of the conversation, 'It was the most hectic thing I've ever been through.' I'm quoting the transcript here, not the earlier statement.
He agreed that in his earlier statement he'd not noted the words of his conversation with the accused, and his explanation in evidence here was, 'It was the most hectic thing I've ever been through and some of the finer points go'.
He agreed that he turned and left the accused to run after Josephs when he saw Josephs chasing the absconder, but also being chased by others. He went to help his colleague and left the accused behind him. He says he ran past and through some of the crowd that was chasing Josephs, but the accused was not up there amongst those he was going through.
He had recorded in his statement a threat to bash them. It was put to him that he was exaggerating by saying here that he'd heard a threat to kill. He denied exaggerating and said he remembered hearing it and hadn't deliberately left it out of his statement. He couldn't here say who spoke that threat. He couldn't pick the person out of the encircling group at the time who spoke it.
He said that of the people who were threatening him by raised fists and some with raised cans and bottles, they were physical threats as well as verbal threats, but he doesn't place the accused as one of the people raising any items such as that.
He agreed it was possible that other people came to that vicinity who didn't actually say anything to the police or touch or threaten the police in any way. He said he saw Mr Tiburcy had moved up to that group, but doesn't say that Tiburcy touched or threatened him at that stage in any way.
At the point of the second apprehension of Tyler and the second encircling that he described, he said he believes Mr Tiburcy was still there, but had had no conversation with him there, and he saw no direct touching or threatening by Mr Tiburcy there. It's just he believes he was in the vicinity.
He feared a king hit by a man with a raised white full can who wasn't the accused, but he didn't get that hit, and when he looked up things had moved on and he saw someone in the police car, although he couldn't name that person or say what that person was wearing.
He did not see the accused again until after more police had arrived and the main aggressors had moved off. Most, not all, of the main agitators had gone, they had filtered westerly down the road. He said he approached Mr Tiburcy, rather than Mr Tiburcy approaching him, near the police car and tried to get him to go in the ambulance, which by then had arrived, and the response was to the effect of, 'Fuck off, they're not looking at me, they cost too much'. He said the accused point blank refused to get into the ambulance. He was not aware if he had rung his mother to take him to the hospital later.
On re-examination, he could not say who pushed and shoved and left blood on the back of his shirt because that was going on behind him and therefore out of his vision.
...Senior Constable Kayne Josephs' said he was the driver of the car in the call out to this event. Before getting out of the car he wound down his window to hear and gauge the situation to make an operational decision. He said he saw 50 to 100 people in the front yard on the footpath and road, predominantly teenagers and predominantly intoxicated. He noticed some were aggressively fronting up to each other and he told Chapman to radio for a couple of units for back up. He was still in the car when that happened and he was also still in the car when approached by a person who was a neighbour.
He says when he was still in the car, he, Josephs, saw Mr Justin Tiburcy standing at the front of the police car with a significant injury to his mouth and some teeth missing and a heavy amount of blood around his mouth and on his clothing. He saw an unknown female approach Mr Tiburcy and look at his injury and appear to get agitated and appear to call over five or six males, who came over, spoke to Mr Tiburcy, became verbally and physically aggressive and agitated and ran towards the house and attacked it, and also some attacked a white sedan that was in that vicinity. He said one started very aggressively kicking in the door of the house and he, Josephs, at this stage went after those who were attacking the house and the one trying to kick in the door. He says at that stage he was surrounded by some others trying to stop him, that is him, Josephs, and yelling at the man who was kicking the house, to forewarn him, and that person he saw take off and run in an easterly direction down the street.
He, Josephs, chased after that person, pushed through the crowd to do so. He said he caught him at least 50 metres from the house, where that man who was running fell over some hard rubbish on the nature strip. That person was very aggressive and angry and he used capsicum spray on him. He now knows him to be Bronson Tyler.
At that point he heard himself being chased by part of the crowd. His attention until then had been focused on Tyler, who he was chasing. He restrained Tyler by placing an arm behind his back. He saw Senior Constable Chapman was close by and surrounded by a large number of people milling around and milling towards both of them. He said Chapman was yelling to them to back off but they were very close, within a metre to half a metre of him. They were egging Chapman on to fight them, they had fists up and were aggressive in manner and verbally aggressive and verbally indicating they wanted to fight.
He was then confronted by an angry female who abused him verbally and struck his forearm several time with her fist to break his grip on Tyler. He yelled at her to back off but was punched in his face, he does not know by whom, causing his nose to bleed, and at that point he did lose his grip on Tyler. He radioed for urgent assistance and then he saw Chapman was chasing Tyler and he followed, and after Chapman caught Tyler in a headlock he, Josephs, restrained him by holding his hands.
The group followed the police and surrounded them again within one or two seconds. He says he saw the majority was armed with bottles and cans, full bottles, and were gesturing aggressively as though to throw the bottles and cans at him and Chapman and verbalising that they wanted to fight. There was physical contact of being bumped and pushed because they were so close. He says he saw the accused was there. He turned to him, the accused and the accused was very aggressive and angry towards him, Josephs. Josephs said he asked Tiburcy if he needed immediate medical assistance by an ambulance and he verbally abused him - meaning that the accused verbally abused Josephs. He did not see if Tiburcy was part of the encircling group when Tyler was first arrested.
On cross-examination, Senior Constable Josephs said he did not see Justin Tiburcy actively fighting or throwing punches, nor wrestling anyone, nor touching him or Champman, nor verbally threaten him or Chapman, nor challenge either of them for a fight, nor threaten either of them with any object, nor throw any bottles. He first saw Tiburcy before he, Josephs, got out the car. He saw a female approach him and get hysterical and some males approach him and get agitated and aggressive, and they then attacked the house and the white car and his, Joseph's, attention physically turned to follow them and he did not see or hear Chapman have a conversation with Tiburcy.
The next time he saw the accused was at least 50 metres from the house on the reapprehension, the second apprehension, of Tyler, that is as part of the second group surrounding the police or the second time one or more groups surround the police. He denied that Mr Tiburcy approached him at that point and says that he, Josephs, asked Tiburcy if he needed and ambulance and the response was, 'What are you going to do about this?', indicating his injuries. He had put to him that at the committal he agreed to a question that 'At that stage he', meaning Tiburcy, 'approached you and asked what you were going to do about his situation?' Josephs said here he is not too clear what situation is being referred to as he spoke to Mr Tiburcy on two occasions about medical assistance.
He agreed that Tiburcy had not threatened him at this time, that is in those conversations. Tiburcy had indicated he was injured and asked what was going to be done about it. Josephs asked if he needed medical assistance and Tiburcy declined. Josephs said it was not until the second conversation that the accused said something to the effect that the ambulance costs too much.
He agreed that at the committal hearing he had answered yes to a question that the accused's motive in approaching and taking up conversation with him appeared to be to ask what action would be taken about what happened to him. He agreed that he had agreed to that there and, as [defence counsel] emphasises, therefore adopted that evidence here.
The third time he saw Mr Tiburcy, his second conversation with Mr Tiburcy, he says was after other police units had arrived and they had gained control of the situation. The main protagonists who had damaged the police car and caused other damage to the house had gone by the. Mr Tiburcy approached a number of police there, including him, Josephs. Mr Tiburcy was not attempting to touch or assault him or other police in any way. He wanted to know what action would be taken about what happened to him. Josephs said he does not recall what Justin Tiburcy was wearing and he checked his notes specifically on that but had no note of it. He did have in his notes that the person who was in the police car, Ashley Aldred, had short blond hair and was wearing a white top that night.