THE RECORDED INTERVIEW OF THE APPLICANT
22 The applicant made many admissions in the recorded interview of 21 November 1994.
23 Questions and answers 23 to 29 were in the following terms:-
"Q.23. Do you agree that prior - prior to this interview, you told us that you were involved in the death of Raymond Howlett at Gulgong?
A. As far as I can remember, yes.
Q.24 Right. For the purposes of this interview, would you like to outline your involvement in the death of that man at Gulgong on the 17th of August 1994?
A. …..
Q.25 Yes, just -
A. From the very beginning?
Q.26 From the beginning, yes?
A. A friend of mine was asked if he would do a job for another guy, which involved bashing someone and he said no, he wouldn't, but he said he might have a friend who would and he come and - he come and asked me, I don't know if he asked anyone else first or anything like that.
Q.27 Who was the friend?
A. Michael Cameron. And I thought, Oh - well, I don't know. I thought - I just said I didn't know and then he got back to me and said the guy was willing to pay $5,000. I said, "Okay, righto, I will then", you - you know, I was looking at asking Leyla to marry me and I thought, oh $5,000 for belting a guy. They said he was a drug dealer and all this anyway, so I thought, why not? So I thought, okay, so I thought, big tough me, I could do that. I thought it'd give us money to go away with, you know, $5,000, I could, you know, we could drive up here and we'd be right for a month if we couldn't find work, you know. I said, "Just for belting a guy? So I said, "Yeah, and yeah, he come round, I can't remember how long later, I'm sorry. He gave me $1,000, I don't know how many days or, I don't know how long it was.
Q.28 Who gave you the $1,000?
A. Michael. And he gave me $1,000, and he - he told me that this guy - I don't think he told me what the guy's name was, but this other guy gave him - gave him the money and he just wants this guy belted, you know, like, scared, belted, you know, not he, didn't say anything to me he just want this guy scared or belted around a bit, so okay, so I took $1,000. I thought, you know, I'm not a poor man, it's just $1,000 and I went out and checked out where he worked. I thought, okay, I went out and checked out where he worked and all that, and then the next time, before I went out the next time, it could have been a week between it, I don't know what the dates are but I - I can't remember who told me. They said they wanted this guy just wiped out. I'll remember, I'll tell you who told me. They said they wanted this guy taken out, I was like,…
Q.29 What did you infer that to mean?
A. Killed, that's what I thought it meant, yeah. I was like, "Nah, I don't want, nah" and I was politely informed that I'd already accepted the money and I had to take on the job. I was, like so much for big tough me. Anyway, I - I went up there again with Mick Cameron".
24 In his answer to question 31 the applicant said that he and Cameron had visited "Walkerville". Mr Howlett had come out of the house and the applicant had had a short conversation with him.
25 In his answers to questions 34 to 36 the applicant said that some time later he had hitchhiked to Mudgee and from Mudgee had telephoned Mr Howlett's telephone number. The telephone call had been answered by Mr Howlett's daughter. The applicant had then had a short telephone conversation with Mr Howlett, in which he had told Mr Howlett that some one wanted to kill him and the applicant had made a proposal that Mr Howlett should meet the applicant in a hotel in Mudgee. Mr Howlett had abruptly terminated the conversation.
26 In his answer to question 45 the applicant first mentioned Damien Watts. He said "I was talkin' to Damien".
27 In his answers to question 45 and following questions the applicant said that he had gone to Kellyville with Watts, travelling in Leyla McDermott's car. The car was parked some distance from the house on Kellyville and the applicant and Watts had then walked to the house. Mr Howlett came out of the house and in his answer to question 62 the applicant said:-
"And I ran over and I remember beltin' him - ran over dived and belted him and that - that's all I remember".
28 In his answer to question 68 the applicant said that he did not know where Watts was, when he, the applicant, was "belting" Mr Howlett.
29 One or other of the applicant or Watts ripped out the cord of the telephone inside Mr Howlett's house. The applicant and Watts then ran back to the car, got into the car and drove back to Katoomba.
30 In his answers to questions 101 to 104 the applicant said that he had never met, and did not know the name of, the person who wanted Mr Howlett "belted".
31 In his answer to question 114 the applicant said that he had taken Watts with him, because "he (Mr Howlett) might have people there… he (Mr Howlett) might be peaked out for me ringing him" and having Watts with him would "make me feel more secure… I just said to him (Watts) 'if you are willing to help me, you know, back me up, so, you, just stand back'".
32 In his answers to questions 134 to 139 the applicant said that he had received a further payment of $4,000, which he thought he had received from Michael Cameron. He could not recall whether he had received this further payment before or after he went to "Walkerville" with Watts.
33 Questions and answers 160 to 163 in the interview were as follows:-
"Q.160 Police have spoken to Damien Watts in relation to this matter and he's told police that when you entered the house this particular night, you were armed with a large diving knife, silver handled, silver bladed diving knife.
A. I may have, if it's coming from him.
Q.161. Have you ever owned a knife, a diving knife?
A. No. I don't dive I don't have a knife.
Q.162 Well, do you recall being armed with a knife when you went to the house on this particular night?
A. I remember havin' one beforehand.
Q.163 When you say, 'beforehand' -
A. Like at - at home".
34 At the request of the police the applicant then made a drawing of the knife he said he had had at home. In answer to question 182 he said that he did not know where that knife now was.
35 In questions 184 to 196 the applicant was asked about Watts having told police when he was interviewed by police, that when Watts and the applicant were running back towards the car the applicant had a rifle which he had taken from the house. The applicant said that he had seen a rifle on the verandah of the house but that he did not remember taking it. During the investigation police had found a rifle lying on the ground some distance from the house.
36 Questions and answers 197 and 198 were as follows:-
"Q.197 Damien's also told police that he says you told him that you stabbed Mr Howlett.
A. I told him that I did?
Q.198 Mm.
A. I may have".
37 Question and answer 208 were as follows:-
"Q.208 Do you know where this knife is now?
A. I wouldn't have a clue. I don't even know what I did with it. I don't even know if I had it on me when I went there".
38 At question 251 and following questions the applicant was asked about Michael Organ. The applicant said that he did not know anybody named Michael Organ but that he did know a person "Mick" who ran a business called "Mudgee Firewood" in Katoomba and that he had had some conversations with that person about the "bashing" of Mr Howlett. In answer to question 279 the applicant said that he had rung up Michael Organ "afterwards"…I wanted to meet up with this Glen guy". In his answer to question 338 the applicant said that he had never met "Glen (Wright)", until after he had been arrested.
39 Question and answer 350 were as follows:-
"Were you - was there ever any suggestion that you were to receive any drugs for payment part payment for this matter?
A. Yeah, they said first up that they were gunna give me a pound of pot - grass, whatever and or $5,000".