The argument was put by saying that a dispute can only be created between two parties as a consequence of the one party demanding that the other shall do, or refrain from doing, some specified thing. If the other party refuses or neglects to comply with that demand, then a dispute arises. If an organisation of employees demands that employers shall pay specified minimum rates of pay to employees, it is demanding that the employers shall do something, and, if the employers refuse, or fail to accept, that demand, then there is a dispute between the organisation on the one side and the employers on the other side. The organisation may (as the union did by its log in the present case) have claimed the minimum rates of pay only for its own members. Or it may (as the Amalgamated Engineering Union did in the Metal Trades' Case [2] ) have claimed that those rates be paid to all employees, whether members of the organisation or not. In the latter case the dispute which arises is not, qua non-unionists, a dispute between employers and non-unionists. It is merely, as in the former case, a dispute between employers and the organisation, though the subject matter includes rates payable to non-unionists. All this, it is said, is quite intelligible, but, when we come to consider what purports to be a demand by employers against the organisation with regard to the minimum rates payable to non-unionists, the position, it is said, is wholly different. Such a "demand" does not require the organisation or its members to do or refrain from doing anything. Here we have the employers addressing an organisation, which does not represent non-unionists, and saying: - "We demand that we be bound, as between ourselves and you, the organisation, to pay such and such minimum rates of pay, to all our non-unionist employees in the industry." The organisation may answer by saying: - "We have no objection whatever to your paying to non-unionists the rates of pay which you mention, or any other rates of pay." It might go on to add: "If we proposed to concern ourselves with non-unionists, we might be disposed to demand that you pay higher rates to non-unionists than those which you mention. As it is, we do not propose to concern ourselves with the rates of pay of non-unionists." How can it be said that such an interchange of communications creates an industrial dispute?