MS HUNTER: Now, the next criteria you asked him about, was he able to talk to his solicitor about the particular case and what he felt was important in relation to his case and you said that he indicated he would only listen to his legal advisor. What did you ask him? How did you get across this concept to him?
DR GEORGE: Well, again, I can't tell you what I asked him. Normally I say, "Do you feel you have - do you feel you can talk to your solicitor about your case? Could you tell your solicitor what you want to do with your case? Do you want to plead guilty or do you want to plead not guilty? Are the circumstances that have occurred in relationship to this particular incident that you've been involved in that you need to talk to your solicitor about so that he can actually talk to - present that information in court for you on your behalf." That's the type of thing that I would say in a situation like this.
MS HUNTER: But what - didn't he tell you that he was able to say that? That he could say, "I'm guilty" or, "I'm not guilty"?
DR GEORGE: He understood that concept, but I'd have to refer to my report again as to what I actually said, but he didn't - I don't think he impressed me as having the ability to really inform his solicitor adequately.
MS HUNTER: But he said - he indicated he would only listen to his legal advisor, he would not know what questions to ask. Well, indeed that could be said of many of the people in this community who have never had dealings with lawyers or courts before and indeed one could assume that people go to lawyers for their advice?
DR GEORGE: M'mm.
MS HUNTER: Is it the case that Mr Fisher was unable to even explain to his lawyer that he'd been caught doing something that was illegal, he'd been charged and that he could tell him either he was guilty or not guilty?
DR GEORGE: Look, I think that if his solicitor asked him questions about an offence, he would probably - for example, I was just reading, I think, one of the offences in 2008, he stole a car and he got a call from his girlfriend and something had happened and she was distressed so she wanted to be picked up and he thought, "Well, the only way I can pick her up is to steal a car and - grab a car and go and pick her up" and so he'd probably tell his solicitor about what happened. But he probably wouldn't be aware of all the implications of what he was saying and tends to emphasise that perhaps at the time when he engages in these sort of activities, much of his behaviour is impulsive and not based on being thought out or not based on thinking about consequences or not understanding the rules of society the way the rest of us do, so on and so forth.
MS HUNTER: But indeed, he's still able to advise his solicitor of what he's done, what he's been charged with, not using legal terminology, but ...?
DR GEORGE: Sure.
MS HUNTER: ... that he'd pinched a car and he got done for driving the car?
DR GEORGE: Yes.
MS HUNTER: He's able to tell his solicitor that, he's able to give that information and seek advice in respect to that?
DR GEORGE: Yes, but then his solicitor would actually have to fill in a few gaps like the fact that he suffers epilepsy, that he has absences, that he has grand mal seizures that could cause him to have brain damage if they were severe and that sort of thing.