Evidence Relating to Identification of the Accused
38In the ERISP relating to the interview of Markham conducted by police on 31 August 2010 (Exhibit "G") Markham was asked at question 78 to describe "the third bloke" and he answered it as follows:
"Q78 Can you tell me about this, the, the person you call the third bloke or the other bloke?
A. I don't really know his, he's short, he's got a lot of tattoos, I think he's got a missing tooth or a black tooth, I've, I've really, I've never met him before never really apart from then but I've heard of him. Apparently his, his dad's an old time crim and you know like he's been brought up right through the stuff and, and as far as I'm aware of that's where Gavin got his gun from also, like 'cause Gavin kept saying I can get you one. I'm not too keen on guns so I just didn't you know like I, sometimes bridge up about them and you know like talk like I'm someone I'm not and but I've never really had anything to do with guns and yeah."
39Later in the interview, Markham provided a further descriptive account as follows:
"Q106 All right. You keep referring to him as a young bloke and you've just described him as tattoos ---
A Yeah. He's, he's young, yeah, yeah, he's ---
Q107 Just, just give us a full description of him.
A OK.
Q108 Just think about him and talk about him ---
A. Yeah.
Q109 --- from head to toe ---
A. All right. Well he's about 18, 19 he's a lot shorter than me and he's covered from head to toe in tattoos from what I seen. Like I, I, I'm pretty sure, I don't want to make a mistake but I'm pretty sure he has tattoos on his neck and, and like he's, I know he's definitely got 'em all over his arms and his fingers and ...
Q110 And what about a hairdo?
A He was wearing' a hat. I think he had a rat's tail actually, I think he did, yeah, but and he had, he had, wears a bum bag and -
Q111 And what would you describe as his physical build, is he ---
A Just small, just small, he's, he's not big at all. I'd be bigger than both of them I think Gavin and ---
Q112 How tall are you, you about 6'2?
A 6 foot 3.
Q113 6'3.
A 187."
40In his evidence in the Basha inquiry, Markham gave evidence, inter alia, upon the following:
(i) The circumstances leading to him having the conversation with Carroll whilst they were both in custody and the content of the conversation.
(ii) The times and circumstances in which he was in the company of the "third man" on the evening of 22 August 2010, before, during and subsequent to the events at Werrington.
(iii) The formal identification procedure held on 1 October 2010.
41In relation to the events concerning the conversation that Markham said he had with the accused whilst they were in prison, he said that an inmate told him "your co-ey is up in the 13/14 and wants to talk to you" which Markham said he responded "who's me co-ey?" (T 44).
42He said it was on the next day that he learnt from the same inmate the name of his "co-ey" (T 45:1-10).
43He agreed that he subsequently asked to speak to the accused (T 45) and said "'cause I wanted to see him" and later "because he'd requested to see me days earlier" (T 46:1-5).
44He agreed that he asked a number of questions of the accused. Markham also said that "it was general conversation" (T48:15-20). It was then put to him that the conversation proceeded as follows:
"Q And on the evidence you've heard there, or on what you said you asked the person, Guy Carroll, a number of questions; is that right?
A. That's right.
Q. Even though it was he that wanted to speak to you?
A. Oh, it was general conversation, but yeah, that's right.
Q. You asked him what was going on regarding the case; is that right, correct?
A. Yep.
Q You asked him, "What have they got"?
A. Yep.
Q. What did you mean by that question, "What have they got?"
A. Well, what did they have on you? What did they have?
Q Who's the "they"?
A. The police.
Q. Why did you ask that question?
A. Cause I wanted to know.
Q Why do you want to know?
A. Because I do.
Q Why?
A. Just curious.
Q You asked just out of curiosity; is that right?
A. That's right.
Q Is that right?
A. That's right.
Q. No other reason?
A. No.
Q. You asked him what was going on regarding the case, you mean regarding his case; is that right?
A. Yep.
Q. Why did you ask that?
A. Well, obviously I want to find out if he knows whether I've said anything or not.
Q. I beg your pardon?
A. Obviously I want to know if he knows that I've said something.
Q. Why did you want to know that?
A. Well, I'm in gaol.
Q. Go on.
A. Yeah, well, obviously, if people know that I've said something, it's not a good place to be, is it?
Q. So, even though you only called him because you understood he wanted to speak to you
A. That's right.
Q. it's you that is asking these questions of him; is that correct?
A. I think the questions were pretty general, back and forth.
Q. But on what you've said
A. Yeah.
Q. as played on that tape, the only questions that are being asked are the questions that are being asked by you, correct?
A. Yep.
Q. And that is the truth, isn't it, what you said there?
A. Yeah, that's the only thing that was relevant at the time. I didn't say anything else.
Q. I beg your pardon?
A. I was asking the questions and I was telling the officer because that was the only he didn't ask what guy had asked me.
Q. He didn't ask what guy
A. Well, I was only telling him what I had asked Guy, not what he asked me.
Q. So there was other conversation that you didn't say to the officer; is that right?
A. Yep.
45Markham agreed that the first time he had told anyone about the conversation with the accused in custody was on 1 October 2010 during the formal identification procedure conducted by Detective Flanagan (T 50:15-20).
46In later evidence he said that he asked the accused questions: "...'cause I wanted to know whether he knew that I'd made a statement", and a little later said, "well, he didn't let on. I didn't think that he did": (T 51:5-12).
47Markham stated that the conversation at the fence with the accused lasted "maybe five-ten minutes", although he could not remember exactly (T 51:45-47).
48In relation to the events at Werrington on 22 August 2010, commencing at T 53, Markham's evidence was to the following effect;
(i) That he first met the "third man" at the third man's home (T 53). He remained in his house for "approximately 10-15 minutes" on the evening of 22 August 2010. In that period he said that there was just general talk, and he could not remember whether they discussed what was going to happen. He was asked:
"Q. Were you actually looking at the third man during those 10 or 15 minutes?
A. I would have been, yeah.
Q. I'm not asking what would have happened. I'm asking what did happen?
A. When you talk to somebody, you look at them, don't you?
Q. So, you did talk to the third man?
A. Yeah.
Q. But you don't remember what you talked about?
A. Yep.
Q. Whereabouts in the house were you?
A. Back room.
Q. When you were talking in the presence of the third man who else was there?
A. His girlfriend at times, another person and Gavin.
Q. Girlfriend, another person and Gavin?
A. Yep.
Q Who was the other person, was it a man or a woman?
A. Man.
Q. Was that the man you described as the "darkskinned man"?
A. That's right.
Q. Did the girlfriend get a name?
A. No.
Q Did anyone call her by her name?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. So, at that point in time, when you saw the third man, did you see him with tattoos all over his body?
A. I can't I can't remember."
49Markham's evidence was that, having left the house, they proceeded in a car driven by the "third man". The journey took between five and ten minutes and he, Markham, was in the front passenger seat. He said he spoke to the "third man" and asked him whose car it was that they were travelling in. He said that the third man said it was his car (T 56:5-10). He said there was also conversation involving the others present in the car (T 56:15-20). He said that he did not notice during the journey whether the "third man" had tattoos all over his body (T 56:20-25).
50When the car stopped, Markham said that he and the others walked to the premises to be robbed in Werrington and that this took between two to five minutes. At some point the "third man" put a balaclava on and kept it on during the events that thereafter took place (T58:45-50).
51According to Markham's evidence, after the break-in and shooting, the three men got back into the car and returned to what he assumed to be the "third man's" house (T 60:5-10). He again was in the front passenger seat.
52He said that he remained in the house for five or ten minutes. He said he was trying to help Bell whom had been wounded in the mouth by a bullet. He said that whilst at the house each of them took off their clothes and burnt them (T 60:45-50). He said at that time, whilst they were getting their clothes off, it was "a bit frantic" (T 61:25-30) and it all happened quite quickly. He said that he saw the "third man" take off his clothes although he wasn't focussing particularly on him at that time.
53As to whether the "third man" had a "rat's tail" he said that he said, "I think he had a rat's tail, I'm not too sure" (T 62:15-20).
54In relation to an earlier account in which he suggested that the "third man" had a missing tooth or a black tooth, he responded, "I can't remember saying that" (T 62:3545).
55In relation to the period after the formal identification procedure, Markham stated that he had not seen the "third man" again after the time in which he had seen him in the MRRC (T 64:35-40).
56He said that insofar as he could recall he had never met the "third man" before the evening of the shooting (T 64:45-T 65:10).
57He was asked about the description he had given of the "third man" having tattoos, including tattoos around his neck (T 65:25T 66:5):
"Q When you went through those photos on 1 October, did you, in your own mind, exclude those photographs where the men did not have any tattoos?
A. I don't know what my thought process was.
Q. But you were definitely looking for someone with tattoos; is that correct?
A. I can't remember what I was I was looking for the person that I believed was the third person.
Q. I know, but you have said that the third person had tattoos including on his neck, didn't you?
A. Yeah.
Q. Correct?
A. Yep.
Q. So, is it the case that, if people didn't have tattoos, including tattoos on their neck, they couldn't be the third person, the third man; isn't that right?
A. Yep.
Q. So, doesn't it then follow you would have excluded those photographs of people that didn't have tattoos?
A. Probably.
Q. And, indeed, you would have excluded people that didn't have tattoos on their neck, wouldn't you, from the same logic?
A. Yep."
58He was asked about the answer to question 79 of the ERISP (Exhibit "G") in which he said that they called the "third man" "Collins" or "Col". He said that Bell, who knew the "third man" had asked him to participate and said that he was a friend of the family and also that Bell told him that he was his (Bell's) cousin (T 67:5-20). This conversation took place on the night of the shooting.
59He was then again asked further questions as to the photographs used in the formal identification process as follows (T 67:35T 68:5):
"Q. When you looked at those photographs, is it the case that the photograph numbered 12 what you could recognise about the person in photo number 12 is the person you saw at MRRC rather than the person you saw on the night of the shooting; is that correct?
A. Sorry, you want me to say that the photo that I'd seen on the paper, did I recognise him only from that when I seen him in gaol or from the night; is that what you're asking?
Q. Yes.
A. Both. I remembered what he looked like.
Q. When you say you remember what the third man looked like
A. Yep.
Q do you think there is a risk do you think there is a real possibility that what you were doing was remembering the person you saw in gaol rather than the person you saw on the night?
A. I knew what he looked like. I couldn't remember his name, but I knew what he looked like."
60Markham was asked further questions as to Bell referring to the "third man" by name (at T 70-71). He said that Bell told him that the person's first name was "Guy" (T 71:30-35).
61Detective Michael Flanagan gave evidence of the interview which he conducted with Markham on 31 August 2010 and the formal identification procedure on 1 October 2010. His statement dated 3 October 2010 was tendered and admitted as Exhibit "L" (T 74).
62In the course of his evidence, Detective Flanagan stated that the 20 photographs used in the identification procedure constituting the array of photographs had been compiled by Detective Suesscow. The selection of the 20 photographs was based upon the application of software that generated like images through a program when parameters of likeness for photographs were entered. The photographs were then randomly selected from the database (T 75:45-50).
63He was unable to say precisely what parameters had been entered. He was inclined to the view that Detective Suesscow had chosen them from the photograph of the accused that had been taken by police when Mr Carroll was taken into custody on 8 September 2010 (T 76:1-15).
64A copy of the photograph of the accused said to have been taken on 24 September 2010 (but accepted as a copy of the photograph of the accused taken on 8 September 2010) was admitted and became Exhibit "M" on the voir dire.
65As the officer in charge, Detective Flanagan was asked whether he turned his mind to the description given by Mr Markham to him on 31 August 2010 of the "third man". He responded that his thoughts when reviewing the photographs for a proper array would have been on photographs that were similar in description or appearance to the photograph that had been taken of the accused (T 79:20-25). He was pressed as to whether he had turned his mind in determining what a proper array of photographs was to the physical description that had been given by Markham on 31 August 2010. He responded in the negative (T 79:25-30).
66Detective Flanagan stated that the fact that the photograph of the accused showed tattoos on his neck would have been something that he considered when reviewing the photographs (T 79:40-45).
67He accepted that of the 20 photographs, photos 2 and 5 depicted tattoos on the neck. He said, however, that it did not concern him that the other photographs did not show tattoos on the neck (T 80:15-20).
68In re-examination the Crown Prosector asked Detective Flanagan:
"Q. If you're able to answer this, please do so. In selecting the array of photographs, who was more important, the photograph of Mr Carroll or the description provided by the witness?
A. The photograph that was going to be included in the array of photos on the day.
Q. That is, it was important to attempt to select an appropriate array of photographs by reference to that photograph?
A. Yes. That's what you're going to view." (T 84:30-40)