[6] It is not immediately clear what money figure should be attributed to these offences. Where a creditor is deprived of security for a debt, that could, in the end, cost the creditor nothing; the inadequately secured debt might be paid. The potential loss to the creditor is the value of the security which, but the for the debtor's fraud, would have been available and that is in the present case a sum of about $1.5M. The total amounts which were eventually due and unpaid are not stated in the record. It was argued for the applicant before the primary judge that where it can be shown that a particular financier had a sum equal to the principal advanced (but not the interest) repaid to him, that circumstance is a great mitigating factor; that does not seem to us correct. Commercially, the vice of what the applicant was doing was fraudulently depriving creditors of security for loans made to him and that was security for both principal and interest.