"There was no discussion about costs until, I think, June, July 1996 when you and your wife were with Mr Caine. Correct?---That's correct, yes. I stand by - I'm not sure of the date, but that would be when we were with Mr Caine.
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At that stage you and your wife signed a costs agreement with Mr Caine?---Yes.
You pledged your 70,000 loan account as security?---That's correct.
Mr Price couldn't because he had not been readmitted to the trust, had he?---That's correct.
Yes, and of course at that stage he had no capacity to pay costs, had he?---As far as I know, no.
So if he was ever going to be able to assist you to pay costs, it had to be if and when he ever got back into the trust?---Or if he became financial as he was before.
Yes, and at that stage it was entirely speculative? ---Everything was at that particular time, yes.
Can I take you to your affidavit of 2 February 2000? ...
Can I take you to page 4? Do you have that?---Yes, I have it.
There's a heading Deed of Declaration of Trust?---Yes.
It says, 'In or about March-April 1996, we agreed with Price that (1) he would continue to assist us in our action against Hayes because we had a common purpose; namely, the future of the commune at Denmark.' Is that correct? ---That's correct, yes.
That arrangement happened, you say, late 95?---Like I just said to you, I wasn't quite sure of the actual dates of that particular one.
Are you not sure on some dates?---On some dates unless something specific had happened at that time.
Right, '(2) he would indemnify us for one half of the costs we incurred in breaking the stalemate with Hayes.' That's not true, is it?---Yes.
In March-April 96 you have just said there was no discussion with Mr Price about costs until you went to see Mr Caine in June-July of 96?---This is talking before it, before when we - - -
You just told me - - -?---I'm getting confused here with the actual dates. This was discussed when we were down in Denmark before we went and put the ashes on Peter Ryan's grave; not his grave, I'm sorry, in the forest. This was all discussed.
So you discussed costs when you were putting the ashes around?---We said that we would share the costs as Mr Price had said, yes.
Sorry, I thought a moment ago you had said that there was no discussion about costs, sharing costs, until you had the conversation in Mr Caine's office?---This is where I'm getting a little confused actually to the dates. I'm talking now. I can tell you now about the one where we went down to see the grave or shall I say where we spread the ashes. This was made then, but as to the particular date I wouldn't be quite sure.
Do you agree with me that you just said a moment ago there was no discussion about costs?---I agree with you a moment ago I said that and then I'm losing the actual sequence of events and I can tell you a moment ago that when - I can pick them out by the sequence of what had happened, not by the actual dates.
When did you scatter the late Mr Ryan's ashes?---This is when we made the arrangements.
When?---This is why I'm trying to tell you that I am not sure of the particular dates.
So when you were scattering the ashes, you say there was an agreement about sharing costs?---Yes, this was talked about before at the kitchen table and we went all around.
You didn't mention that, you see. I took you quite carefully through what was agreed and now you're coming back when I put to you what you said on a prior occasion, you have changed what you have told us already today?
---This is as it comes, as I say, into a sequence from where I can tell you these sort of things had happened.
Let's go back again. Are you telling us now that there was an agreement about sharing costs before you scattered Mr Ryan's ashes?---Yes, and this was also clarified by Mr Price by sending the letter following that.
The letter was in February 1997, 10 months after you signed the declaration of trust and something like 7 or 8 months after you signed a costs agreement with Mr Caine, so let's go back. Before you scattered Mr Ryan's ashes, what was the agreement as to sharing costs?---That we would work together, all of us, to defeat Mr Hayes and bring the company back to equilibrium and also that we would share in all the costs and details and everything else to do this, so this was some of the - it was like general agreements that were made in that particular time as well.
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The parties to the general agreement were you and your wife, Mr Price and I assume Mr Bazeley?---That's correct, yes.
What did you then understand? How did you then understand that Mr Price was going to pay for it?---This wasn't even discussed at the time as regards how he would pay for it.
He had no money, did he?---I didn't know. At the time I know that he came from Melbourne - he hadn't got - but he told us he had got prospects over there.
He had prospects?---Yes, and he was going to run a health club or a health farm or something, as well as selling real estate.
As I understood your evidence, he was so poor that you and your wife were having to care for him?---We did at that time but he said he had prospects and Mr Price over the years we had known him had been up and down in business and as far as we know, that he could possibly get back into business again but we also said that if the money came - that we had the money, it came through - we would try and pay it out of the trust."