Could you tell his Honour what happened at that meeting, where did it take place, what you said and what he said?---Okay. The meeting took place in my office. Ant came up to my office and he handed me the draft memo and said that he really wanted to talk about the plans for the airport sector and also the profitability of the airport sector.
What did you say to him?---And he then went on to say that he didn't think that - he didn't believe that it could be really profitable. He thought that there were significant issues with the sector and that yes, he thought it really wasn't going to be profitable. I was a bit surprised at that. He had been in the job for a little over two weeks, he had been most - - -
Is that what you are saying to him?---I did say that to him.
Remember I said we have got to give an account of what you said and what he said?---I'm sorry.
You've told us what he said initially, now tell his Honour what you said?---Well, I said to him that I was a bit surprised with that statement because he had only been in the job for a very short time and that he had spent a lot of his time in the negotiation of both the - I can't think of the name - there it is, the TCS contract for the SAP program and also on the Qantas negotiation, so I said to him that I was surprised he could come to such a conclusion in such a short time. Nevertheless, Ant went on to say that that was his conclusion and as he was talking, because I was surprised with this, I started to flick through the memorandum, because - - -
So that's the memorandum at 193?---Correct, because I was really wondering, your Honour, where this was going. I was surprised with Ant saying that at the start of that meeting.
And continue to tell his Honour what you did and what you said and then what he said?---Okay. Then I quickly saw one of the options which had - - -
Where are we, what page?---195: "Option 1. Point 2, GM airports redundant", I saw that.
What did you then do?---When I saw that and Ant was still talking to me about the profitability issues of the airport sector, I said to him, "Let's cut to the chase, Ant, what are you really saying here? Do you want to go?"
And what did he say?---He said that that was an option for him.
And what did you say?---I then started to - then I asked him, because I was surprised and I asked him did he have another job, did he want to go - did this mean that he really wanted to go, and he said to me yes, he did want to go. I was a bit surprised also, your Honour, in my own head I was thinking we had gone from an option to talking about Ant wanting to go. So then we stopped really talking about the profitability of the airport sector and started talking about Ant wanting to go.
Could you tell his Honour what was then said in relation to that topic, the topic of Ant wanting to go?---Yes. I asked him if he had another job and he said no, he didn't have another job. I said to him that I was surprised that after such a short time in this position that he had made a decision so quickly, and he just kept come back to me that he didn't think that the job was big enough in terms of revenue being there to make the sort of profits that we were after.
What did you say to him about that?---Well, again I reiterated that I thought it was far too soon for him to make that call. I then started to talk about ways in which I thought that we could improve the airports sector and, your Honour, this was the same that was happening right across the company. There were profitability issues everywhere so this was, in a sense, no different to what we were finding in other places, but we had a plan which I talked to Ant about -
- -
So rather than being general, can you tell his Honour what you said to Ant in this meeting about those matters?---Okay. I said that - I outlined how we should start to look at the costs in the airport sector, that we should start to look at the contracts in those areas, your Honour. I said that we needed to review staffing costs by looking at rosters, by looking at the scope of work. Were we, in those contracts, what we were being paid to do were we doing things that we weren't being paid to do, because again, your Honour, it's the things that we were finding in other contracts, and I discussed this with Ant. Then I also went into detail about how we could grow the airport sector and again it was about expanding our services. Ant was sceptical of this and said to me that he didn't think that was possible from what he had seen and he certainly didn't think that he could do that.
What did you say to him in response that?---Well, I said to him that if he put his mind to it, I believe that he could do it but if at the end of the day he didn't want to do it, then there was nothing I could really do about that.
What did he say to that?---Well, he agreed with that.
Then what happened?---Then we - when I said to him, because I knew that Bruce was away that day, Bruce was interstate and I did want to talk to Bruce about this, and I said to Ant that I thought that he should really think about it at the weekend, don't decide straightaway, and that we would both talk to Bruce on Monday morning when he was back in town.
You mentioned at page 195 of the memorandum the reference under option 1, point 2, "GM airports redundant"?---Yes.
Was that topic discussed?---What I did say to him was that I couldn't make the GM airports position redundant because we had just established the sector and if he wasn't going to be in that position, I would appoint somebody else to that position but that position would be ongoing. So the position itself, I remember very clearly saying that the position would not be made redundant.
Was anything said by Mr Stevens about the CIO role?---No.[75]