Annexure: Conciliation and Directions Hearing on 30 April 2019
Transcript from 11:27:20 a.m.
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R: Is the matter coming back for further directions on twenty-six June?
ST: No I'm setting it down for a hearing. The next hearing notice you will get will be a hearing. I am setting it down for a 3-hour hearing, the hearing will not be before the 25th of June. The next hearing notice you will get will be for 3 hours. Now, I don't think it will require a 1-day hearing. Right, Mr McBride, any questions?
A: You mentioned 25th of June, I had written down 26th of June.
ST: Had you? Sorry that may have been my not talking loud enough. 25 June for your evidence.
A: 25th for the actual hearing?
ST: No
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14 May for you to file your documents.
A: That's my concise summary plus an affidavit of evidence from Mrs Phillips.
ST: That's correct and you, well, any document you want, I'm not telling you what to put on, you are the applicant you bear the onus of proof you have to decide what documents you want to put on.
A: That's in addition to what I consider already served … with the application
ST: Well, I, yes and no. If you say yes I'm gonna rely on all of the documents in the application and they've received one and we've got a copy then any additional information yes.
A: Yes sure
ST: You should make it clear in that that you are relying on the application form and all of its attachments and any additional material. Then on the 25th of June you going to get some documents from Mr English or some representative of the respondent. You don't have to be anywhere you'll just be sent some documents and then there will be a hearing notice informing you of the hearing sometime in, I don't know, I suspect not before August Mr …
A: And that's where you talk about the three hour process, that's the August type thing.
ST: That'll be hearing yes not a directions hearing like this one, it will be the full hearing, it'll be the final hearing you will present your case and the other side will present their case.
A: And that could be as far away as August?
ST: It absolutely can be, we hear 55,000 applications every year, we'll get you on as soon as possible.
A: And again you think this is a 3-hour matter?
ST: I believe so, again, we hear 55,000 applications every year, this is a Tribunal not a Court. If you believe you want to go to a Court of competent jurisdiction then you can think about or get some legal advice whether you want to go to a District Court or to a, to a Supreme Court or file a summons there.
A: That court might be appropriate for higher compensation but it doesn't do anything in terms of changing retirement village rules so that's, that …
ST: Mr McBride I've been sitting here full-time for 8 years, a 3-hour hearing is in keeping with s. 36 of the Civil and Administrative Tribunal Act, this is meant to be a just, quick and cheap hearing for both parties to get access to justice. A 1-day hearing in my view is not required, we hear $250,000 - $500,000 cases, that sort of case we will hear for 2 days. Then we hear Strata schemes Management, you know compensation claims in the vicinity of $500,000 - that might be a 1-day case. I can assure you that a 3-hour case is sufficient for the purposes of whether a by-law should be amended, revoked or whatever.
A: Now, raise one other matter, I would attempt to get some pro bono legal assistance because there is substantial legal argument in this issue I would agree and where limited on funds Mrs Phillips is merely a pensioner and cannot afford anything substantial. If I succeed in getting some pro bono legal advice, would that change the timescale [?] We assume it will roll on …
ST: You haven't yet got a hearing notice, once you get one if you cannot comply with this timetable or you cannot appear at the hearing which is set by the Tribunal for which everybody has to just turn up, we don't take your available dates, we, we ask you to please comply with the notice we send out you, if you can't comply with that notice and you need an adjournment, you ask for an adjournment in writing.
A: So it would be appropriate to introduce legal representation after getting the notice of that hearing.
ST: I don't under- it's up to you if and when you want to seek legal advice, I've told Mr English today why I'm only granting him leave today here to be here represented for this directions hearing, he is going to try, I don't want to say luck, he's going to try and get legal representation by writing to the Tribunal. If you want the same then you write to the Tribunal and seek leave. I now have 6 people sitting behind you waiting for the next directions hearing. Are there any other questions?
A: No, I think that's fine.
ST: Right. Any other questions Mr English?
R: no …
ST: Thank you very much for your assistance today, the copy of these orders will be sent out to each of you. Thank you.
I hereby certify that this is a true and accurate record of the reasons for decision of the Civil and Administrative Tribunal of New South Wales.
Registrar
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Decision last updated: 17 March 2022