The Evidence
40Mr Ross Callus
Mr Ross Callus has been employed by the Respondent as an Industrial Relations Adviser, Human Resource Division since June 2009. In July 2009 he was requested to assist in a grievance lodged against Mr Newbery by Ms Lee and he was provided with background information held by Ms Graham. The information mentioned the involvement of a mediator.
On 16 July Mr Callus telephoned Ms Buchanan to establish what stage the mediation reached. She explained that the meeting with Ms Lee had not been a mediation meeting but was a pre-mediation meeting to determine common ground, Ms Lee's desired outcomes and to assess whether a mediation meeting would assist the parties to reach a satisfactory resolution. Ms Buchanan's evidence belied this statement.
On 21 July 2009 the parties were still talking about mediation as evidenced in his affidavit of 11 February 2010 wherein he reported on a meeting held on that day with Ms Graham and Ms Lee. He stated in his affidavit,
"...I reiterated M/s Buchanan's views that her meeting with M/s Lee had been a pre-mediation meeting only, a mediation meeting would involve both parties and there was no point in convening a mediation meeting until M/s Lee accepted the findings of the investigation and that an apology from Mr Newbery was not warranted."
It was pointed out that there was no mention at all by Mr Callus in his affidavit, and this had to be extracted from him in cross-examination, that Ms Lee protested at that meeting that it had not been said at all hadn't been said at all in that meeting with Ms Buchanan.
On 31 July, unbeknown to Ms Lee, Mr Callus attended a meeting with Mr Newbery and Ms Helen Buscombe, former Manager, Culture and Performance Human Resources Division to determine Ms Lee's employment status as she had not been working in the IAMS field computing section in Roden Cutler House since approximately March/April 2008. Ms Lee, unlike the other two members of her team, is a graduate Engineer although all three members of the team were undertaking exactly the same work. Mr Trew argued that, as there was no requirement for any particular qualification, the excuse/formula used to get rid of Ms Lee - namely, that there was no further work for a project engineer, was unacceptable.
41Mr Sydney Newbery
In his affidavit, Mr Sydney Newbery advised that he had been employed as the Manager of Project, Business Improvement Group of Energy Australia when he swore his second affidavit. He was made redundant in August 2011.
Mr Sydney Newbery said that he was informed by Mr Jamieson that Ms Lee, as project engineer, would be reporting to him as a resource to work on initiating and delivering designated field computing projects for emergency service officers and district operators. There was also the emerging field computing requirement highlighting the upcoming IAMS projects that were said to be completed round about 2009.
Mr Newbery stated that Ms Lee had not returned to work for him. She lodged a complaint on 17 April 2008 and continued to work elsewhere while the complaint was being investigated. He continued to work with IT & T with Mr Newcombe and Mr Kelly and were still working there on 31 July 2008. Mr Newbery denied that he made a statement that he was not going to participate in the mediation nor did he explain that the work was run down, was finished.
During further cross-examination, Mr Sydney Newbery said he informed his supervisor, Mr Locking, in about mid 2009 that there was not enough work to occupy himself and Mr Kelly.
Mr Sydney Newbery gave evidence that after Ms Lee was redeployed, he and Mr Kelly kept working, having been reassigned other work. He had requested that Mr Kelly be transferred, under similar circumstances to himself, from the defunct division, to work with him. From about June/July 2009 he was transitioning into business analysis. Mr Kelly assisted him in those functions which gradually increased. It involved sitting down with the clients and talking through their business processes, what they were trying to achieve, what outcomes they were trying to achieve, documenting all of that and then going away and working with them on improving those processes, applying those processes to systems, systematising them - all in an effort to improve productivity. He eventually became completely engaged on that work. He confirmed that he had been doing that work without being appointed to the position until he was appointed to another position in 2010.
Mr Sydney Newbery confirmed that in about June/July 2010 he had begun to pick up other work beyond the projects that were coming to an end and, as Mr Kelly's supervisor, had allocated work to him probably around August or September 2010. He confirmed that Mr Kelly was doing business analysis but did not prepare business cases during the period of Mr Sydney Newbery's management of him. He also confirmed that Ms Lee prepared two business cases while he was managing her.
He agreed that Ms Lee also participated in some of that work while she was working under his supervision but only in relation to the field computing projects. He agreed that it involved similar techniques and called for similar skills. She was also identifying business opportunities when she was working with him but only up to the point that they were writing business cases. In fact the three of them were involved in whatever work was available at the particular time when she was working for him.
During re-examination, Mr Sydney Newbery clarified that the two business cases Ms Lee had worked on where in respect of field computing for district operators and the field computing for emergency services. She started them prior to him taking over as her Manager in December 2005 and they had worked together on finishing them and submitting them to the Respondent's IT group for approval and funding.
Mr Sydney Newbery identified three Project Status Reports he had generated - two dated 8 July 2009 and a third dated 1 March 2010. The first was an end of financial year status report on the Field Computing for District Operators Project; the second was a monthly status report on the Field Computing for Emergency Service Officers Project; and the third was a monthly status report on the Field Computing for Emergency Service Officers project. All three reports were prepared for distribution to all of the project stakeholders and deposited electronically in the Central Team Room. The third report informed all stakeholders that the project was 100% complete and was distributed in a similar manner including to the project sponsor, Mr Locking and the project clients.
He was not redeployed rather, he was transitioned into another position. He agreed it was a seamless transition into the other work until it ran out and he kept his title as Manager Field Computing until well into 2010.
Mr Kelly was the project manager when he was working with him in field computing and kept that title up until the time that Mr Newbery was appointed to a new position. He was not redeployed either and was also seamlessly transitioned a little bit later than himself into the same area.
He confirmed that Mr Kelly helped him in all the work he did throughout the time from the middle of 2009 until both were both appointed to new positions sometime in 2010. They continued to work together in the new area to which both were appointed and Mr Kelly continued to work in that same position after Mr Newbery was made redundant.
Mr Sydney Newbery was cross-examined at length in relation to the redeployment of Ms Lee. He stated that he attended a meeting with Mrs Helen Buscombe and Mr Callas on 31 July 2009, the date on which a decision was made by them to redeploy Ms Lee. He agreed that he informed both of them that he did not have any work for an engineer grade 2. He confirmed that Ms Lee was the only engineer grade 2 working in his section albeit they were all essentially doing the same work. At that stage, he argued, he was only responsible for one person as Ms Lee had not reported to him for a year because she had been working somewhere else. He acknowledged that the only engineer who had ever worked in his section was Ms Lee. He denied emphatically that he was intending to infer that he had no work for Ms Lee as the only impression he was attempting to convey at that time was that he had no work for an engineer despite the fact that Ms Lee was the only Engineer working in his section. He pointed out that there was more than one engineer in Energy Australia.
TREW: I am suggesting to you that you did not want to work again with Mrs Lee in July 2009?
A. No, I wouldn't say that.
Q. I'm suggesting to you that you didn't want to work with her because she had made a complaint against you that you'd bullied her and you regarded that complaint as unreasonable?
A. Yes, I - I agree with that.
Q. Because she had made that complaint that you were regarded as unreasonable you didn't want to have to work with her again?
A. No, I don't. I don't agree with that.
Q. It was your view in July 2009 that the relationship between you and Mrs Lee had completely broken down?
A. Yeah, I agree with that.
Q. It had completely broken down in your view because of the complaint Ms Lee had made against you?
A. No. It was because a mediation had never taken place and there was no resolution to the situation that we had.
Q. The situation that hadn't been resolved was the unreasonable complaint in your view that Ms Lee had made against you?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was because that had not been resolved that you regarded the relationship as having completely broken down?
A. Yeah. I think that it, yeah, be true.
Q. True?
A. Yeah.
In his most recent affidavit, Mr Sydney Newbery included a statement that he advised Mr Locking that there was not sufficient work in the Field Computing section to keep himself and Mr Kelly fully employed. He agreed that he had not made such a statement in his earlier affidavit. He grudgingly admitted, during cross-examination, that it was an important omission that he had made from his first statement.
42Ms Barbara Graham
Ms Barbara Graham, Manager-Human Resources for Engineering Transmission and Technology Division in Sydney since 2005, attached In her affidavit a copy of the report from Holding Redlich, the Solicitors who carried out the investigation.
Mr Trew pointed out that Ms Lee had been asking for that report for a long time and had been refused access to it.
The report suggested that workforce counselling may be of assistance resulting in Ms Lee being advised in writing, on 3 October, 2008, that mediation had been arranged. On 27 May 2009 Ms Lee confirmed via email that she was willing to participate in the mediation process.
It is noted that the delay in commencing the mediation process was occasioned by the fact that the Applicant had accepted a recommendation from the Public Service Association (PSA) (as confirmed by the PSA in writing to the Respondent on 16 October 2008) that she decline mediation for the present.
Ms Graham reported in her affidavit that, on 11 June 2009, Ms Lee attended a pre-mediation meeting with Ms Wendy Buchanan. On 7 July 2009, she sought information on the progress of her mediation from Ms Graham by email. Mr Trew pointed out that her inquiry was significant in that, far from not being willing to participate in it, Ms Lee was wanting to know what was happening. Ms Graham said she forwarded a request to EA's Industrial Relations Branch, Mr Ross Callas, who was assigned to the matter. She met with Mr Callus to provide him with background information.
43Mr Colin Locking
Mr Colin Locking was employed by Energy Australia from December 1970 until 13 August 2010. He held the position of Executive Manager Network Finance & Commercial Operations from August 2005. In January 2007, as a result of a restructure in the predecessor of the engineering group, he was given the added responsibility for the Network Business Systems, a section of which was the field computing projects.
Mr Trew pointed out that the evidence of Mr Locking was important because he was the person who decided on Ms Lee's redeployment. There were three field computing projects. Mr Sid Newbery was managing the first two projects which aimed to provide the emergency service operators and district operators with computing technology in their vans (screens and computers) to enable them real time access to Energy Australia systems and records while in the field.
44During cross-examination, Mr Locking confirmed that after Ms Lee was redeployed, Messrs Newbery and Kelly stayed on in the computing projects group. Mr Newbery continued in the role of Manager and Mr Kelly continued reporting to him. Both continued to report to him and continued, in the main, to bring the field computing projects to a conclusion. as well as doing whatever work they could find. He stated that he had asked Mr Newbery to look around the division to find other work that he and his team could do and there was nothing. He agreed that entry systems, processes and procedures leading into automating time entry systems across his division was another area being considered just prior to his departure from Energy Australia. Mr Newbery was engaged on looking, at a very preliminary stage, at the possibility of improving productivity across timesheeting when Ms Lee was redeployed but it did not proceed much beyond that. As far as he was aware Mr Kelly was engaged purely on the field computing projects during that time.
45Mr Locking confirmed that neither Mr Newbery nor Mr Kelly were redeployed under his management. He denied that they were found other work to do after Ms Lee was redeployed insisting that "They continued to work on the projects they were already working on primarily" as their main activity. He stated that he continued to look into what other improvements they could make in the division and the end result was that there was none.
46Mr Locking also confirmed that he became aware, about a month or so after she lodged the complaint, that Ms Lee had complained in April 2008 that she had been bullied by Mr Newbery. He was kept informed, by other officers of the Respondent, as to the progress of that complaint. He acknowledged that it was his responsibility to know what was going on. He was also aware that there had been an investigation into her complaint which had determined that the complaint was not substantiated. He was also aware that in September 2008 Ms Lee had been required by Ms Graham, Manager-Human Resources, to participate in mediation to improve the working relationship between her and Mr Newbery. He was further aware that the mediator had interviewed both Mr Newbery and Ms Lee and understood that Ms Lee, as at July 2009, wanted to participate in that mediation. He said he was usually made aware of the progress after the event.
47He agreed that Mr Callus was responsible for the industrial relations aspect of things and Mrs Helen Buscombe was responsible for Ms Lee's redeployment. He could not recall whether Mr Callus briefed him about his dealings with Ms Lee. He recalled that Mr Callus reported to Ms Graham, Manager-HR. He recalled that Ms Graham informed him that Ms Lee had told Mr Callus that she would follow Mr Newbery's instructions if she was returned to work with him.
48Mr Locking could not recall discussing Ms Lee's complaint with Mr Newbery. In her briefing to him, Ms Graham told him that Mr Newbery believed that the bullying complaint against him was unjustified. Mr Locking was also aware that Mr Newbery's view was that the working relationship between him and Ms Lee had completely broken down and one of the major factors that caused it was the former's bullying complaint against the latter. He denied, however, that he decided that the best way to resolve the problem was to redeploy Ms Lee.
49Mr Locking recalled the memo to him from Helen Buscombe dated 24 July 2009 about the redeployment of the Applicant. Attached to that memo was a plan of action to implement the redeployment. Mr Locking recalled that he rang Ms Buscombe on 24 July during which they had a discussion about the redeployment of Ms Lee and agreed that Ms Buscombe would prepare a procedure for redeploying Ms Lee. He agreed that the decision to redeploy Ms Lee had been taken as at 24 July 2009 and all that then remained was its implementation.
50It was suggested to Mr Locking that the decision to redeploy Ms Lee was taken on 24 July 2009 before there was any discussion with Mr Newbery on 31 July about no work being available for Ms Lee in his section and a determination being made that her current position was redundant. Mr Locking gave evidence that prior to that sequence of events, about a week or two earlier, he had requested Ms Buscombe to look within the organisation, and in particular within the IT department, for any other field computing roles or work that could be undertaken by Ms Lee in particular and the team in general because the whole team was running out of work. The response he received was that there was none. He agreed that the discussion with Ms Buscombe had not been referred to in the memorandum of 24 July 2009 nor was it referred to in either of his affidavits. He insisted that the conversation had taken place, he acknowledged that it was an important decision yet it was not recorded. He insisted that such conversations take place all of the time in organisations.
51Mr Locking did not recall the email he received from Mr Russ Callus dated 12 August 2009, to which was attached a Redeployment Tracking Sheet Paula Lee document.
52Mr Locking identified the Energy Australia Deployment and Redundancy Policy that applied in 2009. He agreed that paragraphs 1.1, 2.1 and 3.1.1 made reference to the roles of managers such as himself. He explained that he had not undertaken those roles in relation to Ms Lee because he had involved Mrs Buscombe, Corporate HR, to implement this policy.
Nevertheless, in accordance with paragraph 3.1.1, he had regularly reviewed the work that was going on in his group, focusing on Ms Lee in particular and field computing in general. In particular, he identified that there was a deteriorating level of work. He asked Mrs Buscombe to find out if there was any more field computing work for Ms Lee.
In relation to paragraph 3.1.2 which requires that the manager outline the organisation structure required to perform the work and document appropriate staffing levels and skills, Mr Locking argued that the structure had already been defined and was not changing. Staffing levels were set at three but he was aware that there was not sufficient work for three and he also knew that there was not sufficient work for the remaining two as time went on. He agreed that he had not documented the above, as required by the Policy, pointing out that it was the role of the HR Manager and Corporate Manager to implement the policy and not his direct role.
Mr Locking conceded that he had not personally complied with the provisions of paragraph 3.3.3 of the policy which requires that relevant unions be contacted if there was to be a redeployment.
53Ms Lee was still discussing, after 21 July, with Mr Callus and Ms Graham proceeding with the mediation to allow her to return to work with Mr Newbery when, on 24 July, Mr Locking decided to redeploy Ms Lee. He confirmed that he did not consult with Messrs Newbery or Kelly about whether they should be redeployed nor did he call for volunteers from that team because he was not intending to redeploy them:
LOCKING:. Because the facts of the matter are that Ms Lee had ceased to work in the team and would not work with her own supervisor therefore she was not participating in the work of the team.
TREW: Now let's take just the part in the middle - she wouldn't work with her supervisor. You knew that she had told Mr Callas that she was prepared to work with him?
A. Then she changed her position.
Mr Locking pointed out that her preparedness to work with Mr Newbery had been made conditional on receipt of an apology, or admission, from him.
54Mr Locking stated that the key factors he had taken into consideration were - the limited amount of field computing work; the low likelihood of more field computing work becoming available; continuity of involvement in existing projects and contributions; the likelihood that existing field computing work would cease altogether in the near future; and that the field computing section would shortly be disbanded.
It was suggested to Mr Locking by Mr Trew that those considerations were a recent invention, fabricated after the Full Bench decision as they were not included in his evidence in the initial proceedings before Bishop C.
He denied that the bullying complaint against Mr Newbery was a factor that influenced him to redeploy Ms Lee.
55Mr Peter Farrell
Mr Peter Farrell, Executive Manager, Workforce Relations for Ausgrid, explained that Annexure A to his affidavit was not the Respondent's Redundancy and Redeployment Policy but rather was a practice note or procedure for managers to guide in implementing redundancy and redeployment.
56Mr Farrell could not recall when it was that he discovered that the wrong document was attached to his affidavit although his affidavit was available to be read before Bishop C in March 2012. He denied that he was aware that it was the wrong document at the time the proceedings were on foot before Bishop C.
It is noted that the actual policy is attached to the Ausgrid agreement 2010 and has not altered since 2003.
Mr Farrell forwarded a group email in August 2010 (the day before the proceedings came on before the Full Bench) addressed to Mr Murray Taylor, Employee and Administration Manager of the Distributions Operations and Reliability Division of Ausgrid who was responsible for all IT vacancies within that division; Mr Phillip, the HR Manager in the Transmission Systems and Operations Division; Anthony Stuart, from the Shared Services Division; Paul Beger, the HR manager for the Systems Planning and Regulatory Division (for vacancies in the engineering disciplines). Also copied into that email were the one up managers - Mr Brown is Mr Taylor's Manager and as well as being responsible for the HR in the Distributions and Operations and Reliability Division. He was also responsible for the finance and accounting part of that division.
Mr Farrell sent another email on 13 September in a further attempt to find work for Ms Lee. It was addressed to Mr Edwin Shaw who runs a large proportion of the IT department in terms of computing systems and his immediate Manager, Craig James, the Executive General Manager of the Finance and Corporate Division.
57Mr Phillip Hall
Mr Phillip Hall, Resources Manager-Transmission and Systems Operations, gave evidence that he held a meeting with Ms Lee on Thursday 25 August 2010 at which he handed her a letter instructing her to go and work with Mr Jamal Cheema. He stated that he would have drafted it in conjunction with Ausgrid's legal representatives. Mr Hall stated that he had advised Ms Lee that he had found her meaningful work and the letter provided her with directions in terms of her redeployment.
Mr Hall insisted that Ms Lee said she rejected the letter, pointing out that that's what the whole court case was about; that the organisation did not have a right to treat her as a redeployed employee; that the court case and the requirement for him to find her work were not separate issues and Ausgrid should not be treating them as such; and that she would be referring the letter to her lawyer. She suggested that any determination about her future should wait until after the Court case has been decided.
Mr Hall confirmed that he told Ms Lee that if the directive in the letter was not complied with then disciplinary action would be taken, or potentially could be taken, against her.
Mr Hall also confirmed that he asked Ms Lee what she was doing on a day to day basis. He said that, initially, she had not responded and he had to ask the question a number of times before she responded that she had told him that on a number of occasions already via emails and through Mrs Rochow that she had been segregated since the end of April the previous year. Mr Hall did not recall her saying anything to the effect that the people she had been working with had recently moved away to another part of the building and just left her there without telling her anything about what was going on.
58Mr John Newbery
Mr John Newbury, Manager/Customer Assistance Services with Ausgrid, confirmed that Mr Filacourdis commenced in late September 2008 as a contractor whose contract has been renewed on an annual or six-monthly contract since his initial appointment. Mr Newbery stated during cross-examination that he did not know exactly what Ms Lee was doing when she was in Mr Sydney Newbery's group and therefore could not comment on whether or not Ms Lee used to do the work that Mr Filacourdis now does.
59 Ms Paula Lee
Ms Lee gave evidence in relation to her qualifications and also the training in software development for SAP - the first in a series of courses that will bring me to certification level.
Mr Trew referred to the affidavit in reply of Ms Lee during which she explained that she was appointed to the position of project engineer field computing in December 2004, a computer oriented position, to prepare and coordinate the implementation of the Energy Australia project to deploy IT screen based technologies to people working in the field. Ms Lee confirmed that she was the only employee in the field computing division working on the business cases for the two particular projects when she joined it. She insisted that they were two projects under the broad umbrella of field computing. They formed the bulk of her work although she was involved in other tasks as well - a government radio network that was used by emergency departments like the Fire Brigades, Police and so on. Those business cases had not been finalised when she was subsequently joined by Messrs. Newbery and Mr Kelly some 12 months later. The three had worked as a team finalising those business cases for submission for approval. Messrs Kelly and Newbery moved on to perform similar work in relation to other things in a seamless way since that work apparently stopped and were not redeployed but Ms Lee was.
Ms Lee argued that her position description did not limit her to only these two projects. She argued that the purpose of her role was to have a staged implementation with the DOPs and EMSOs being a relatively small number (approx. 180 users as confirmed by Mr Locking at the first hearing) in contrast with 6000 employees in Energy Australia. It was anticipated that once those two groups were completed then other field staff will be introduced to the system.
Ms Lee confirmed that since her redeployment in August 2009 Mr Hall has attempted to assist her on three occasions to obtain alternative roles within Energy Australia by introducing her to a number of employees within the organisation to talk about possible/available roles. She stated that she did not take up the opportunities offered to her because she did not believe that the roles were suitable because they were not looking for staff to do IT work for them. They were looking for staff with skill sets that she did not possess and it was important to her that she find a permanent role that matches her particular skill set and develops her career.
Ms Lee also confirmed that she has been independently looking for roles that match her particular skill set. She further confirmed that she was not inclined to accept a role that was short term.
Ms Lee also applied for positions advised. Mr Darams took Ms Lee to those positions. She admitted that she had applied for those positions on the basis that the job titles made the roles sound suitable. She had not spoken to the Supervisors of those positions to obtain any information on those roles.
Ms Lee accepted that the two projects she had been working on had a very limited project life. She argued that even though they were short term projects, from her experience, people are not routinely redeployed once one project is shut down. She provided as an example the position of project manager for those two projects whose contract was not terminated upon completion of the project but was provided with more projects. It has not been her experience that people are routinely redeployed every time a project is completed. Nevertheless, she accepted that a risk of redeployment would exist in any event.