17. Through 1990 until 9 November 1990, Dr. Sivandran said he was intermittently involved in lengthy negotiations with both Messrs. Watts and Murphy. The general purpose of the negotiations related to the price and the type of machine which was required. Messrs. Watts and Murphy from time to time said to him that a complete line of machinery comprising three components, namely, a paper pulp moulding machine, a hot press and a printing machine, would be required to be working "on line" i.e. in conjunction with each other, simultaneously, to satisfy the requirements specified in the invitation. Mr Watts told him on one of these occasions that one of the problems in furnishing all three components was that Tomlinsons had itself never previously manufactured a machine incorporating hot press facilities. Two types of paper pulp moulding machine were discussed, a TR4 and a TR2. Mr Watts represented to Dr. Sivandran that the TR4 model had a maximum production of 3,000 twelve pocket egg cartons, or similar, per hour. The TR2 had a considerably smaller capacity. In relation to the hot press facility, according to Dr. Sivandran, Mr Watts stated to him in the course of several of their conversations that there would be "no problems" in Tomlinsons supplying the entire line of equipment in accordance with the Board's requirements, with a capability of producing 3,000 acceptable twelve pocket egg cartons per hour provided that the TR machine were utilised. It was proposed to do this by supplying a TR4 paper pulp moulding machine which would "feed" a hot press called a "Peerless" hot press manufactured in the United States of America by Pulp Moulding Dies Inc. and incorporating a printing machine manufactured in the United States by "Condes USA", all three components being used in conjunction with each other and simultaneously. On numerous occasions Mr Watts told Dr. Sivandran he was confident that Tomlinsons could deliver an entire line of machinery incorporating these three components which, when used in conjunction, would be able to meet the Board's requirements and produce 3,000 twelve pocket acceptable egg cartons per hour. Further, Mr Watts told him that he believed the Peerless hot press to be a tried and tested piece of equipment. The conversations took place over the telephone between Messrs. Watts and Murphy in the United Kingdom and Dr. Sivandran in Perth. On occasions, the substance of the conversations was repeated to Dr. Sivandran when he was in the United Kingdom in the course of meetings with Messrs. Watts and Murphy there.