"MR LOVELL: I've got some submissions to make so I'd like to be able to make them from the bar table.
MR HASTINGS: Thank you. You're being called as a witness. Would you go to the witness-box?
MR LOVELL: No, when they've been submitted to you.
MR HASTINGS: When you've answered the summons, please.
MR LOVELL: We need to discuss the summons and the status of the summons, and I've got some submissions Mr Commissioner, with respect.
COMMISSIONER: Would you please go to the witness-box, please Mr Lovell?
MR LOVELL: Well, I can't make submissions from the witness-box - -
COMMISSIONER: You can.
MR LOVELL: - - that relate to the power of the Commission and at this stage the power of the Commission - - you're acting ultra vires because, in respect of myself, it's outside the terms of reference and, with respect, I don't know why I'm here. The summons - - excuse me, why is this gentleman here? The summons doesn't tell me why I'm here. The summons just speaks in general terms, so first of all, I'm going to ask whether or not a copy of your terms of reference that I have here, which is off the net, is in fact the terms of reference. That's the first question.
The second question is if I'm here in respect of the Lewandowski affidavit, may I see that Lewandowski affidavit and then I want to make some submissions in respect of both of those matters. I can't make those submissions from the witness-box because they relate to whether or not you, in fact, have any power over me whatsoever in respect of your terms of reference, and I think the proper starting point is if I do ask you whether or not this is - - can you please show the Commissioner that - whether or not that is a fair and true copy, complete copy of the terms of reference.
COMMISSIONER: You can show Mr Hastings, please.
MR HASTINGS: It seems to be.
MR LOVELL: Yes. Are they the complete terms of reference?
Nothing else?
MR HASTINGS: I think you can assume so.
MR LOVELL: I assume nothing, sir.
MR HASTINGS: Well, you may - -
MR LOVELL: Are they the complete terms of reference?
MR HASTINGS: You may for the purpose of this hearing assume that what you've produced is a copy of the terms of reference.
MR LOVELL: I make no assumption. I want a straightforward acknowledgement that they are the terms of reference.
MR HASTINGS: Well, it appears to be, without having checked it word for word.
MR LOVELL: Well, I'm sorry you may go on appearances your Honour may I pass this up to you. May I call for - - may I call for your commission and the terms of reference under the seal of the Governor?
COMMISSIONER: Mr Lovell, you've been called as a witness.
MR LOVELL: Well, that is open for question, whether you're acting ultra vires, you're exceeding your powers. Now, the second part of this is if I'm here in reference to the Lewandowski - - if I'm here in reference to the Lewandowski affidavit - - may I ask is that the case?
MR HASTINGS: You're not here to ask questions, Mr Lovell.
MR LOVELL: Well, I'm making submissions here. I need to find out why I'm here.
MR HASTINGS: You'll find out when you - -
MR LOVELL: I have a summons that tells me nothing whatsoever. The summons is to appear and talk about the fairies. Now what am I here for? Now, if I had counsel here counsel would be asking that question. I'm here in person and I'm entitled to make submissions preliminary to the next step. Am I here in respect of the Lewandowski affidavit?
MR HASTINGS: You're here because you've been summoned Mr Lovell.
MR LOVELL: That's the kind of evasive answer one would expect from other parties. I'm asking a direct question. Am I here in respect of the Lewandowski affidavit?
MR HASTINGS: There are a number of matters that are to be discussed. One of them is the Lewandowski affidavit.
MR LOVELL: The Lewandowski affidavit with respect, Mr Commissioner, is ultra vires. It's out of your power. That affidavit was signed, I think, on the 5th of June, 2002 by a private citizen who is not a police officer and outside your terms of reference. The proper pathway for that document is the pathway in which it is presently in, which is as forming part of the petition to the State for a reference to the Court of Criminal Appeal for just and proper determination and, in fact, the process that's occurred here so far is almost in breach of your term 9(a) where it's completely prejudicial to prospective proceedings - which I presume you could take judicial notice of, the fact that there is a petition to the Attorney General - for remitting - -
COMMISSIONER: Mr Lovell, may I remind you that section 14 of the Royal Commissions Act provides that if a person who has been served with a summons pursuant to section 9 attends as required by the summons, and section 10, but refuses to be sworn or to make an affirmation, or refuses to answer any question relevant to the inquiry put to him by a Commissioner, he may be dealt with on the motion of the Attorney General as if he were in contempt of the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court has jurisdiction accordingly.
MR LOVELL: With respect to you - -
COMMISSIONER: Do you understand the - -
MR LOVELL: With respect to you - -
COMMISSIONER: - - consequences of that - -
MR LOVELL: With respect to you, that has to be read in conjunction with section 5, which is the power to appoint the Commission, and most certainly with 7, which is the powers of the Commission, which are in the exercise of your function as a Commission and the performance of its terms of appointment. If I can go to your terms of appointment - -
COMMISSIONER: Can I ask you if you're prepared to be sworn or make an affirmation?
MR LOVELL: Well, you have no power - -
COMMISSIONER: - - and to answer questions.
MR LOVELL: - - to ask me that because you're acting ultra vires.
COMMISSIONER: That's nonsense.
MR LOVELL: - - and that is a threshold issue because - -
COMMISSIONER: You're speaking nonsense Mr Lovell.
MR LOVELL: - - you're - - you're section 1 is that you're appointed to be a Royal Commissioner inquiring into and report on whether, since 1 January 1985, there has been corrupt conduct or criminal conduct by a Western Australian police officer. As at 2002, Mr Lewandowski was not a police officer. Anything to do with that affidavit is beyond your powers. Any - - my financial affairs, which have been exposed publicly, were beyond your powers. It is a misuse of your powers. You are limited by your terms of reference and you cannot step outside it because you are ultra vires. You cannot restrain me here. You cannot ask me to be sworn in, because I'm not here in fact here under summons; I'm here as a courtesy to this Commission and to make the submission that you are ultra vires.
Now, there is nothing in your terms of reference that can bring me here, and I'm a free citizen; I'm here freely to - - as a courtesy to you, shortly I'm going to go and have a cup of tea because there's nothing I can do. I'm outside your power.
MR HASTINGS: Mr Lovell, you know that one of the reasons why you've been asked to come here is to obtain from you the current whereabouts and means of contacting Mr Lewandowski. Are you prepared to give that information to the Royal Commission?
MR LOVELL: It's outside your power. I'm going home for a cup of tea.
COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Hastings?
MR HASTINGS: Mr Lovell seems to have made his own choice as to the course he wishes to follow, Commissioner. We might as well adjourn the proceedings and appropriate action will be taken.
COMMISSIONER: Yes. The Commission will adjourn."