29 I am also satisfied that immediately prior to, or on 21 May, Mr Byrne discussed with Mr Tolmie the role he would be expected to play in filming the car conversation where Mr Fordham was to pose as the hit man, it having been determined by that time, doubtless for maximum impact, that the producers of A Current Affair needed Mr Markham on camera confirming the details of the contract to torture the male escort consistent with what he had discussed in graphic detail with Mr Tolmie in the mobile conversation. I am satisfied that it was at this time that Mr Byrne interviewed Mr Tolmie at the TCN Nine television studios about the then existing and, so far as Mr Markham was led to believe by Mr Tolmie, the pending arrangements for the brutal assault on the male escort and his planned demise. It is also clear that the interview was conducted with a view to including parts of it in the segment that was due to go to air on 28 May 2008.
30 A close analysis of this interview reinforces my view that Mr Tolmie and Mr Markham were not acting in concert to deceive Mr Byrne, Mr Fordham or TCN Nine in the way contended for by Mr McClintock. Rather, in my view, Mr Tolmie is exposed on the one hand as a man pathetic in his desperation for the accolades and benefits he was led to believe by Mr Byrne would be his by participating with TCN Nine in broadcasting the story on A Current Affair, a story that it would appear both Mr Fordham and Mr Byrne were styling for maximum impact. On the other hand, he was revealed as just as desperate to cynically exploit his uncle's sexual deviance and/or criminal intent, whether because he despised his uncle (as I am satisfied he clearly did) or just as likely because of some scheme with his brother to make money from selling the information to the media, despite his denials that his brother was involved or money was his motive, or both.
31 The interview also puts beyond doubt that Mr Byrne and Mr Fordham had information, at the very latest on May 21 and likely well before that date, concerning criminal conduct of the most serious kind which was properly the province of the police to investigate. In these circumstances, there is no other conclusion open but that they both resolved, with or without the concurrence of senior personnel within TCN Nine, to deliberately withhold that information from police until the segment aired on 28 May to enable them to exploit that information for journalistic purposes. An excerpt of the interview with Mr Tolmie which went to air on 28 May is indicative of this attitude in that they appear to openly sanction Mr Tolmie's decision as a hardened and convicted criminal to publicly expose his uncle by offering them the mobile phone recording for public broadcast, because of his distrust and dislike for police rather than to inform police.
32 On the defence case, an additional evidential basis is identified upon which it was said I would not be satisfied that the car conversation was a private conversation for the purposes of the Act, even if I rejected the primary submission that Mr Markham was party to a conspiracy with his nephews to extort money from TCN Nine. It relies on the fact that Donnie Tolmie was also listening to the conversation as it was passing between Mr Markham and Mr Fordham in the car because his brother, Adam Tolmie, (with his uncle's knowledge but not Mr Fordham's) had his mobile phone activated whilst he was driving the car to enable that to occur. In support of this submission Mr McClintock pointed to the fact that after Mr Markham had been dropped off after settling the terms of the contract with Mr Fordham, and after Mr Fordham and Adam Tolmie had driven back to where Mr Byrne and others, including Donnie Tolmie, were waiting, the listening device worn by Adam Tolmie recorded a conversation with his brother where it is clear beyond doubt that Donnie Tolmie has been listening to the conversation in the car. The relevant extract is as follows:
D Tolmie: You got more than what you expected, hey?
A Tolmie: Fucken oath he did.
D Tolmie: Hey?
Fordham: Could you hear it?
D Tolmie: ….
A Tolmie: He listened to the whole lot.
Fordham: Yeah, yeah. Mate, he's planning, he's laid the whole thing out there now, so it's like, you know
...
I mean at first, at first I wasn't so convinced, 'cause he was sort of, but then once he then started saying things for himself, once he then started saying in his own words, you'll have to dispose of him, etc, well, mate, it's pretty much there in black and white, you know. What was your reading of it?
D Tolmie: Yeah, of course it's what he said ...
...
A Tolmie: Oh, yeah. Come up here. Didn't you fucken say to this cunt, didn't you tell him not to fucken ---
D Tolmie: I told him, mate, I told him .
A Tolmie: You fucken idiot. I couldn't fucken believe it. I couldn't stop him. … I pushed that fucken …
D Tolmie: … fucken … him as well .
A Tolmie: I know. I'm fucken, mate, dead-set, sick in the guts. They can't do this, they can't use it without us. We'll just have to fucken go home. Fuck them off. I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with the cunts. He's, he's, what he's got there is worth millions .
D Tolmie: Mmm .
…
A Tolmie: … I just thought he'd shut his fucking mouth and stick to ---
D Tolmie: I told him not to say anything .
A Tolmie: --- the fucking … I said, don't talk about money, don't talk about murder. He's talking about yeah, yeah, fucken, knock, getting rid of him. I don't fucken want him fucken, you know. We might've led him down the path, but you fucken told him not to hit the grass. That was the thing .
D Tolmie: That's right . ...
A Tolmie: Look, we, we --
D Tolmie: …
A Tolmie: No, that's right. I know that. Don't you think I know that? All I can see is me fucking getting in trouble .
D Tolmie: That's right .
A Tolmie: That's all I can say .
D Tolmie: Mmm .
A Tolmie: And sticking up for him .
D Tolmie: Mmm.
A Tolmie: That's why I said to you at … fucken …
D Tolmie: I told him .
A Tolmie: I know you, I know you did, Donny …
(underlined exchange is a whispered conversation out of Mr Fordham's hearing)