To your observation, what hours per week was Mr Erwin Deutsch putting in in relation to the Cooee business in the period from when you joined until 2007, when there was a change because of the dispute with his brother?---He was there quite a lot, and I think he worked from home a lot as well. There was a lot of email communication and phone calls. In hours, it's hard to know. He sort of lived and breathed it, so it was probably quite a few hours.
So he was there frequently, was he?---Yes, he was there every day.
And, as you say, contactable by telephone or email?---Absolutely, yes.
At this period did the same go for Robert? Was he also significantly involved?---Not in a positive way.
All right. Putting that to one side, he played a role also?---He would attend the odd meeting, but I didn't receive emails from him, I didn't receive phone calls from him. He wasn't really working on the business, from my observation.
Tell me if you don't agree with this, but is it a fair summary to say that you viewed Erwin as the person who was the principal controller of the day-to-day operations of the business?---Erwin was the one who had gone out before I even came along and had researched the industry and been out and done marketing and had the sort of passion to build the business. So Erwin was, yes, he was the one that I guess myself and the staff were working with to build it.
After September 2007 until the receivers were appointed in October 2008, did Erwin's role change materially?---No, not really. We were still working hard to build the business.
So this statement of 5 August 2008 should be taken as applying to the whole of the period that you observed.
Erwin - - -?---Yes.
From the time you arrived until that date?---Yes, until the very end, basically.
Until the receivers came?---Yes. We handed in our submission to the Victorian Tourism Awards I think the day before the receivers walked in the door, so we were working hard right until the end.