Now the second question is slightly more complicated. The way you've asked it is, "Under the law, if while intoxicated someone believes he is under threat, is that a lawful excuse that may not apply if the person was sober?" Now I'm not sure that I can answer exactly that question, but what counsel and I have worked through is an answer that picks up, if I can put it this way, the relevance of intoxication or not to the only point in this case, well, that it's relevant to.
You've mentioned lawful excuse and there's only one lawful excuse that's been raised in this case and that is, of course, self-defence. Now, I gave you some earlier directions about the test for self-defence and how it has to be proved and in particular, that there are two elements to the defence of self-defence, and that if the Crown is to rule out self-defence, it is the Crown's responsibility to rule it out once it's been raised, the Crown has to prove one or other of - or disprove, perhaps, one or other of the two elements.
Now, in order to rule out self-defence, and I'm now going to give you some directions that try to bring in the significance of intoxication slightly more directly perhaps than was in my original directions. In order to rule out self-defence, the Crown has to prove one or other of these things beyond reasonable doubt.
They either have to prove that the accused, even in his intoxicated state, and I suppose what that means is recognising that he was in an intoxicated state and that that would have affected potentially his beliefs, did not believe that it was necessary in self-defence to do what he did. Okay, and I'll repeat that. The Crown would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused in his intoxicated state did not believe that it was necessary in self-defence to do what he did. So if the Crown proves that beyond reasonable doubt, that he did not believe it, that will negate the self-defence, defence and the lawful excuse. It will identify that there was no lawful excuse.
Alternatively, the Crown needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a reasonable person who was not intoxicated but who was otherwise in the same circumstances as the accused, and that includes being in whatever circumstances of vulnerability the accused might have been in, would not reasonably have believed - that's the reasonable person who was not intoxicated would not reasonably have believed that he needed to act in self-defence.
And I'll repeat that one again. The Crown needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a reasonable person who was not intoxicated but was otherwise in the accused's circumstances, including his circumstances of vulnerability, would not reasonably have believed that he needed to act in self-defence. And finally, although it's not raised directly by your question, I mention that a reasonable belief does not necessarily have to be a correct and true belief. It only has to be a reasonable belief. It doesn't have to be a belief of something that's actually true. All right. I invite you to retire again and if you have further questions, you know the process now.