The first interview
28 After some preliminary questions, Senior Constable Shipway asked the complainant about the appellant. She asked firstly, what the complainant liked about the appellant; then about anything she did not like about him. To this she said "that's easy". She then said that she did not like his language, because "he swears a lot"; then she said:
"Well, what I don't like about him is his behaviour …" (A 159)
29 Asked for more information about this, she said:
"He touches me on the, the rude part whatever …" (A 161)
30 Senior Constable Shipway asked for more information about that, to which the complainant replied:
"… like he touches me on my rude part when my mum isn't around or when my brother's around (sic) and that's it." (A 164)
31 There followed a lengthy part of the interview in which Senior Constable Shipway asked the complainant about what she meant when she referred to "the rude part". Initially the complainant said she did not know the name of it. Constable Shipway showed her a frontal drawing of a naked female figure and asked her to put a red cross on "the rude part". The complainant marked the drawing in the area of the vagina, but then said:
"I think it's there, but I don't know … I'm not quite sure" (A's 178-179)
32 Constable Shipway then asked if the appellant touched her anywhere else. She said that he did. Constable Shipway asked the complainant to mark on the drawing in blue the areas of this touching. The complainant placed two blue crosses on the breast area on the drawing, which she identified as "the boobs".
33 Constable Shipway then asked more about the red crosses. The complainant said that that was the part of the body used "to do your wee or something"; Constable Shipway asked if she had a name for that place and the complainant said:
"I think it's called a pussy but I don't know" (A 200)
34 Constable Shipway then asked about what happened when the appellant touched her "pussy". The complainant replied (I reproduce the answer as transcribed):
"O.K. First off he opens whatever … the sides. I think it's called the lips but I don't know. And then he looks inside at it my, do you know the hole? … whatever that is. I think it's called a vagina, yeah it's called a vagina hole … he show me and then he touched me and I said, Don't touch me there. I told him that I was going to have a bath so I went into the bathroom and he turned the water on, first he put the plug in and then put the water on both of them, the hot and cold. And then he, then I hopped in - the bath. Afterwards I got … I'm remembering. Got it. I went into the bathroom … Yeah, I was in the bathroom. I think it's called a bathroom. I'm not sure - where the toilet is … I went into the bathroom and then I hopped in where the plug is and the water was … then he opened it again and he looked inside and he said, you know what the round circle is and I said, No, and he told me it was a vagina hole, whatever that is. And after I … because I thought it was cold so I got out, put my top on and I asked mummy if I could watch a DVD …" (A's 203-208)
35 A little later, in answer to a question from Senior Constable Shipway about anything else that the appellant might have said while he was touching her, the complainant said:
"He said that, When you get older can I lick it … and I said, No, and he said, Why, and I said, Because you can't do it now because I'm just a little girl, I'm at (sic) 12 year old, and he said, Well I do it to your mum, and I said, yeah but mum's not a kid anymore, she's grown up, and that's all I said." (A 259)
36 Constable Shipway then asked about any other occasions and the complainant referred to an occasion in her brother's room when her brother was not present (A 264). She said:
"Well I … was in my brother's room and I was sitting down and dry my, my legs because my top part was all dry. I putted my top on, I, I was wiping my legs and all those places … and then he came in, [the appellant] came in and said, do you, when I get older do you want to have sex, and I said, No because I might find another man …" (A 268)
37 Constable Shipway then asked the complainant if she had told anybody. She said that she had told her mother (A 281). When asked what she had said, the transcript records that she replied:
"I said, Mum [the appellant] was touching me on my rude part, and then my [sic; "mum" omitted] said to him, You shouldn't be doing that because you should've told me first, she said that to him and that's it." (A 282)
38 The complainant then said that her mother had told her that she had told the appellant not to do it again, and if he did he would not be coming to their house anymore. When asked about staying overnight at the appellant's home with her mother, the complainant said that she and her mother went to sleep on the floor there.