30 During the meeting, the ACCC representatives, Cassidy, Alexander, Williams, Pryde, Jopling and Caleo occupied one room ("the ACCC room") and the representatives of the Visy companies and Pratt including Heathcote and Beach were in another room ("the Pratt room"). McHugh moved between the two rooms and there was no direct communication of a relevant kind between any representative of the ACCC and any representative of the Visy companies and Pratt. A statement by McHugh which was received into evidence by consent in the present proceedings contained, amongst others, the following paragraphs;
'10. At the initial meeting in the Pratt room, Mr Pratt's lawyers were saying that Mr Pratt would accede to orders directing him to ensure greater supervision of Visy's activities vis-ŕ-vis trade practices matters and to implement a trade practices compliance program, but that Mr Pratt was not prepared to admit to the conversation as alleged in the statement of claim as Mr Pratt denied those allegations.
11. I then proceeded to the ACCC room. During my first period in the ACCC room, I outlined for the ACCC that Mr Pratt denied what the ACCC alleged to have been said at his meeting with Mr Jones on 21 May 2001. I said that in a contested trial it would be one man's word against another and the ACCC would bear the onus of proving the Jones version of the conversation to the Briginshaw standard of proof.
12. Mr Alexander told me that the ACCC's position was that in order for the Civil Penalty Proceeding to settle, Mr Pratt had to admit to knowing the essential elements of the overarching understanding between Visy and Amcor. He said that I would know that better than anyone that this was necessary before he could be knowingly concerned in a contravention of the Act. That stuck in my mind, because Mr Alexander was assuming I was a party to the judgment in Yorke v Lucas, which was decided before I was appointed to the High Court. Neither the ACCC executives nor any of their legal advisers said to me at that time (or any time) that they had in mind an intention, or considered it a possibility that the ACCC might prosecute Mr Pratt under s 155 of the Trade Practices Act or refer that issue to the Commonwealth DPP for advice.
13. I then returned to the Visy room where Mr Pratt was present. During that period:
(a) I told Mr Pratt that the ACCC was not willing to compromise the Civil Penalty Proceeding without him making an admission directed to the conduct alleged against him;
(b) Mr Pratt said that he had not had a discussion with Mr Jones on 21 May 2001 as alleged by the ACCC in its statement of claim, or as eventually set out in the signed Proposed Order. (He did not resile from that position at any time in the "without prejudice" Meeting in my presence);
(c) I told Mr Pratt that he had to factor into his thinking about whether or not to settle the civil Penalty Proceeding, or to go to trial, that there was a likelihood of an adverse finding being made against him personally;
(d) I said, on the one hand, there was a high onus of proof in relation to Jones' evidence and that there was an inconsistency in Jones' first account (as set out in the Jones Examination) and as later set out in the Jones Proof, about what had occurred at the meeting on 21 May 2001. I said that as a result, Jones may not be believed.
(e) I told Mr Pratt that, on the other hand, he had to face up to Mr Jones' evidence, and to the fact that a judge would ask why Mr Jones would make that evidence up and implicate himself in the cartel. I told Mr Pratt that he had to take into account that a Court may accept Mr Jones' account of the conversation. Mr Beach QC said that he may be able to move Mr Jones in cross-examination to come back to the version provided in the Jones Examination. I also told Mr Pratt that a judge might think, given his hands on role in the business and as a person who was on the factory floor at 6 a.m. in the morning, it was likely that he would have been aware of all the important matters for the business, and therefore that he must have known about the cartel even though Mr Pratt denied it to be so. I said that was among the things he had to weigh up if he wanted to resolve the Civil Penalty Proceeding. I told Mr Pratt that if he wanted to avoid six months of costly litigation and continued adverse publicity, he had to be prepared to make the concession sought by the ACCC because otherwise the Civil Penalty Proceeding could not be resolved.
(f) Mr Pratt was told by others at the meeting that the damage to his reputation by acknowledging his participation in the cartel could be managed by those advising him in relation to media matters;
(g) Mr Pratt was also told, and this was a matter of some concern to him, that any evidence led in the Civil Penalty Proceeding may be available to applicants in a class action against Visy for damages arising from the cartel.
14. Mr Pratt did not remain for the entire meeting, because he had to leave to attend a lunch in Sydney with the Prime Minister. I recall Mr Kaye speaking to him by telephone later in the meeting. I cannot recall what Mr Kaye told Mr Pratt.
15. Mr Pratt said very little during the time I was present in the Visy room. He mainly listed to what was said, and he said little or nothing in response to the above observations. He was also concerned by the effect of a finding that he had contravened the Trade Practices Act on his reputation.
16. During my time in the Pratt room, Mr Pratt was not engaged with the process. He did not act as I had expected that he would, given his status as a leading businessman, and he appeared distracted.
17. There was a lot of discussion at the meeting about some particular words in the draft declaration, and various drafts were produced. I went back and forth two or three times between the rooms while the specific words were debated. The Visy advisers, particular Robbie Kaye and one of the public relations people, were the driving forces, discussing how to manage the proposed concession and focusing on what they could make of the word "indirectly" in the proposed declaration. There was lots of discussion about "indirectly" and "communicating", and what exactly those words meant. At one point a dictionary was referred to. This was because it was sought to find a formulation by the Pratt side which did not involve admitting to the correctness of the Jones account.
18. At the conclusion of the meeting, a form of words was agreed. The proposed Order was signed in the ACCC room. I was asked to witness that document, and I signed and dated it. That was the end of my involvement in the matter.
19. The ACCC did not in my presence inform Mr Pratt or his legal advisers, or say to me, that it had in mind an intention, or considered it a possibility, that it might prosecute Mr Pratt under s 155 of the Trade Practices Act or refer that issue to the Commonwealth DPP for advice. Had the ACCC informed me of such risks or possibilities, I would have regarded that as a relevant matter to put to Mr Pratt in considering whether to compromise the civil Penalty Proceeding.'