Consideration
26The key to arriving at the correct answer seems to me to lie in ensuring that the right question is being asked. As earlier discussed, the plaintiffs contend that the question called up for consideration in the earlier proceedings was whether or not the plaintiffs were liable for $1.75M as guarantors of the company's obligations to the bank. There was no question in the proceedings that they were ever liable, nor was any claim made, for a sum greater than that. In contrast, the defendants contend that the proper question was the more general issue of what was the plaintiffs' liability to the bank as guarantors of the company's liabilities. As the consent orders and the judgment confirm, that liability was agreed by the plaintiffs to be almost $3.4M.
27This is not a case where the fact of the settlement per se is the matter complained of by the plaintiffs. It is apparent that the plaintiffs intended to settle the proceedings and gave instructions and accepted advice concerning it. What is in issue are the terms of the consent orders upon which the proceedings were settled and in accordance with which the judgment that was entered against the plaintiffs.
28The plaintiffs maintain that they do not seek to impugn the judgment below but that on the contrary they embrace it as an important indicator against which to measure or calculate their loss. In my view, that contention is apt to mislead. The plaintiffs do in fact seek to assert that the judgment that was entered against them is not an accurate reflection or measure of their liability to the bank. They seek to set up in these proceedings an argument that they are entitled to damages from their solicitors because the judgment is wrong. That necessarily raises the spectre of disputed evidence about what transpired in the circumstances and events leading up to the entry of the judgment and the plaintiffs' anterior agreement to the consent orders. It is only necessary to observe, in order to test that proposition, that the plaintiffs in these proceedings will be asserting that the judgment in the earlier proceedings is wrong and does not represent their genuine liability to the bank, whereas the defendants will be asserting that the judgment in the earlier proceedings is correct and by force of that judgment unquestionably establishes the plaintiffs' actual legal liability to the bank.
29I am not satisfied that the plaintiffs' analogy, and hence their fundamental proposition, withstands scrutiny in any event. The tax or revenue implications of the hypothetical settlement referred to in the example given were certainly not issues in the suggested case and it would not have become necessary to quell any formal controversy about them. It remains the fact, however, that any complaint against the legal advisers for committing the client to the settlement in the circumstances is a complaint that he or she would in effect not have entered into the settlement but for the negligent or absent advice. Advice on tax or revenue matters may have been collateral to the main issues in the putative proceedings but it was not thereby necessarily collateral to their compromise. A claim against lawyers in such circumstances arguably raises the prospect, if not the certainty, of a re-litigation of the facts and matters that led to the settlement. Such advice as may or should have been given concerning the wisdom of the settlement must be advice given out of court that was intimately connected or concerned with the conduct of litigation in court. As such it would fall within the scope of the relevant immunity.
30I was not referred to any authorities in which the plaintiffs' particular proposition was specifically applied or exposed. However, in Bott v Carter, to which I was referred, Basten JA observed at [33] that "the only question arising in the present case [was] the extent to which the appellant [could] identify issues which do not involve reagitation of the District Court trial and judgment." His Honour proceeded to examine the contentions on that topic and concluded that "[n]o claim of loss falling outside the scope of the immunity [had] been identified."
31In Biggar v McLeod [1978] 2 NZLR 9, Richardson J commented at 14 in these terms:
"Advice on settlement of a cause, during trial, is as much an incident of the conduct of the trial as advice on and decisions as to the calling of witnesses and other matters, which, although not necessarily given and made in the courtroom, cannot in a practical way be severed from and dissociated from the conduct of the cause by the barrister in the presence of the judge."
32The present case is not one in which, as in Donellan, the defendants gave effect to a settlement that was in terms different to the settlement that they had been instructed to effect. The plaintiffs in this case, albeit arguably influenced by negligent advice, consented to the compromise of the proceedings on the very terms that resulted in the judgment of the court. The genuineness of that consent is immune from reconsideration at the defendants' expense if the judgment in which it resulted is itself otherwise invulnerable to challenge. I do not consider that the plaintiffs' claimed losses, subsisting in their liability to the bank for any amounts in excess of their certified obligations as guarantors, fall outside the scope of the defendants' immunity.
33Notwithstanding all of the above, there remain at least two related matters that in my opinion are particularly troubling in this case, and which directly intersect with the way in which I am able to dispose of this application. The first matter is the apparent or potential strength of the plaintiffs' allegations that the defendants have been negligent. As I have already commented, the plaintiffs would have been substantially better off if they had simply not defended the proceedings. The predicament that the judgment created for them is difficult to explain but even more difficult to understand. It is also difficult not to have a sense of unease about the possibility that an egregious error may go without the prospect of a remedy.
34The second matter, however, is that it is not possible in a fair and reasoned way to assert the first without a proper inquiry. As was observed by Beazley and Giles JJ in Symonds v Vass [2009] NSWCA 139, the question of whether advocate's immunity applies in a given case cannot be determined without proper findings of negligence. Whether advocate's immunity applies depends upon a clear understanding of what occurred and of the respect or respects in which there was negligence, which is something that cannot and should not be determined on a hypothetical basis.
35I acknowledge that the orders made by Schmidt J for this issue to be determined as a separate matter were made by consent. I remain troubled, however, that it is not possible to form a concluded view about whether or not an examination of the plaintiffs' liability to the bank over and above their certified liability as guarantors of the company's obligations will or may "identify issues which do not involve reagitation" of the judgment entered by consent by Rein J. I have been provided with an expansive statement of agreed facts for my purposes, but the allegations of negligence against the defendants cannot be usefully assessed or determined without considerably more material. Without being exhaustive I can well imagine that such extra material would necessarily include evidence from the plaintiffs with respect to their discussions with and instructions to the defendants, as well as the advice that they received, leading up to and concluding with the settlement.
36As Giles JA said in Symonds at [15] and [41]:
"[15] Ordinarily the correct application of advocate's immunity would be left for the new trial, to be determined upon the findings of negligence. ...
[41] ... It may be that any negligence in that central respect would attract advocate's immunity. But I do not think that it can safely be concluded, on what amounts to an hypothetical basis, that negligence in all respects alleged by the appellants falls within advocate's immunity."
37It follows that the view that I have expressed, that advocate's immunity does apply in the circumstances of this case, is a view arrived at upon what is predominantly an hypothetical basis. For example, I do not know what evidence might emerge at a final hearing concerning the advice that was sought or given about the settlement, whether relevant matters were adverted to or overlooked, whether the settlement reflected the terms that were explained to the plaintiffs or whether they were explained at all. I have no way of knowing whether the plaintiffs' liability as guarantors for the $1.75M was in some or any way discussed or considered in the course of advice to settle. I have not seen documents from the defendants' file in the original proceedings that may cast light on the issue one way or the other. Despite the preliminary and unfavourable (but admittedly hypothetical) opinion I have formed generally about the defendants' conduct as professional legal advisers to the plaintiffs at the time, it is obvious or at least prudent that I should not attempt to arrive at any final or concluded view on their prima facie liability in negligence, more so that I should not presume to act upon such a view, in order finally to evaluate the advocate's immunity defence. A comprehensive exposure and understanding of the negligence case against the defendants is likely reliably to inform the outcome of the advocate's immunity question, which should not be decided without it.
38In these circumstances, and having regard to the unease that I have regarding the force of the plaintiffs' concerns and the presently unresolved allegations that they have made, I do not consider that I can or should finally decide the question of whether their claim is defeated entirely upon the basis that the defendants are immune from suit.